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Thread: THe American Empire?

  1. #1
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    THe American Empire?

    I've suggested that the US exist presently as an Empire. Others have disagreed pointing out the lack of success we have "occupying" other nations. Here's an interesting article touching on this subject.

    http://personalliberty.com/2012/04/0...and-now/?eiid=

    The answer is that Washington’s empire extracts resources from the American people for the benefit of the few powerful interest groups that rule America. The military-security complex, Wall Street, agribusiness and the Israel lobby use the government to extract resources from Americans to serve their profits and power. The U.S. Constitution has been extracted in the interests of the security state, and Americans’ incomes have been redirected to the pockets of the 1 percent. That is how the American empire functions.
    Last edited by georg jetson; 04-03-2012 at 12:38 PM.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Given a functional definition of the term "empire", valid debate could ensue regarding whether the term were applicable to a given nation. Since "empire" is one of those fuzzy concepts that people choose to abuse as best suits their predetermined opinions, I don't think anyone can reasonably respond to this topic as it is currently presented.

    Would you like to give us an unambiguous, usable definition of "empire"? I rather think formulating that definition will entail quite a lot of consideration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    Given a functional definition of the term "empire", valid debate could ensue regarding whether the term were applicable to a given nation. Since "empire" is one of those fuzzy concepts that people choose to abuse as best suits their predetermined opinions, I don't think anyone can reasonably respond to this topic as it is currently presented.

    Would you like to give us an unambiguous, usable definition of "empire"? I rather think formulating that definition will entail quite a lot of consideration.
    The definition of "empire" that I would give would be the one ascertained from the context of the word in the article.

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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Empire of the "Ruling Class"

    I'll see your article and raise you one.

    America's Ruling Class -- And the Perils of Revolution


    America has been imposed on enough.

    ~Whitney
    Last edited by Whitney; 04-03-2012 at 11:55 PM. Reason: syntax
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

  5. #5
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    The definition of "empire" that I would give would be the one ascertained from the context of the word in the article.
    How about a -true- definition of the word. 'empire'?

    Quote Originally Posted by dictionary.com
    em·pire
       [em-pahyuhr; for 8–10 also om-peer] Show IPA
    noun
    1.
    a group of nations or peoples ruled over by an emperor, empress, or other powerful sovereign or government: usually a territory of greater extent than a kingdom, as the former British Empire, French Empire, Russian Empire, Byzantine Empire, or Roman Empire.
    2.
    a government under an emperor or empress.
    3.
    ( often initial capital letter ) the historical period during which a nation is under such a government: a history of the second French empire.
    4.
    supreme power in governing; imperial power; sovereignty: Austria's failure of empire in central Europe.
    5.
    supreme control; absolute sway: passion's empire over the mind.
    EXPAND
    adjective
    8.
    ( initial capital letter ) characteristic of or developed during the first French Empire, 1804–15.
    9.
    ( usually initial capital letter ) (of women's attire and coiffures) of the style that prevailed during the first French Empire, in clothing being characterized especially by décolletage and a high waistline, coming just below the bust, from which the skirt hangs straight and loose.
    10.
    ( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to the style of architecture, furnishings, and decoration prevailing in France and imitated to a greater or lesser extent in various other countries, c1800–30: characterized by the use of delicate but elaborate ornamentation imitated from Greek and Roman examples or containing classical allusions, as animal forms for the legs of furniture, bas-reliefs of classical figures, motifs of wreaths, torches, caryatids, lyres, and urns and by the occasional use of military and Egyptian motifs and, under the Napoleonic Empire itself, of symbols alluding to Napoleon I, as bees or the letter N.
    Or how about:

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbandictionary.com; 6th description
    Word meaning "cool". Started on the east coast of England. You heard it here first.
    "That t-shirt is just so empire!"
    Happy face?
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  7. #7
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    How about a -true- definition of the word. 'empire'?
    Beware the dictionary fallacy.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    The definition of "empire" that I would give would be the one ascertained from the context of the word in the article.
    So the article is written to prove that America is an empire according to the article's definition of "empire". That is known as begging the question.

    Seriously, I think this would be an interesting discussion, but we need an objective definition to work with first.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Beware the dictionary fallacy.
    Figures, now definitions from the dictionary don't count? What's next, reason... An Empire is anything we deem it to be.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Figures, now definitions from the dictionary don't count? What's next, reason... An Empire is anything we deem it to be.
    Dictionary definitions are good but can be fallacious when ignoring the point being brought out.

    It's like the we are not a police state argument recently had. Relying on the dictionaries definition and saying we have to meet all the requirements. You can be an empire, police state, communist, socialist, radical, whatever....without meeting the strict definition if the end result is the same or similar.

    Of course that depends on "what the definition of is, is".
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
    Regular Member DangerClose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    I've suggested that the US exist presently as an Empire. Others have disagreed pointing out the lack of success we have "occupying" other nations.
    Speaking of, I find it interesting how so many people hate Occupy Wall St. yet have no problem with Occupy Middle East.

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