Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Springfield Township, SW OHIO.

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Cincinnati (Springfield Township), Ohio, USA
    Posts
    49

    Springfield Township, SW OHIO.

    Go get a cup of coffee. This is a long post.

    On Saturday July 17, 2010 I was shopping at the Finnytown Kroger on Winton Rd., in Springfield Township (Southwest Ohio). As I was moving along the back of the store filling up a cart, a manager walked by me and did a double take as he noticed my gun holstered at 4:00. He turned around and came back to ask me if I was a police officer. The brief conversation, and all of the ensuing hullabaloo was captured on my voice recorder (http://www.kingsknight.org/7-17-20101400.wma).

    Several minutes later Springfield Township Police officer Nick Nimskern shows up. Even though it wasn't required, I notified. As you can hear on the audio, the officer basically admitted that he did not know the law about firearms and thereby admitted that he had no reasonable suspicion (RAS) or probable cause (PC) for stopping me. The officer, without legal authority to do so, then ordered me to produce identification (ORC 2921.29 requires RAS/PC). This was the first of many times on the audio recording that you will here me ask the police "is that a request or an order" and virtually every time I was told it was an order. Every time my reply was "I will comply but I do not consent." Forcing me to produce my drivers license and Ohio CHL was the first violation of my civil rights under the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (protection from unreasonable search and seizure).

    Without legal authority, the officer then demanded that I cover my gun with the T-shirt I was wearing. One reason that I OC is to make a statement to the public. This was a violation of my civil rights under the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (freedom of speech).

    Without authority, the officer then ordered me to leave the store. No representative of the store had ever asked me to leave. Over my objection, I was escorted out the front door.

    As soon as I exited the store officer Stroud tried to sneak up behind me. When I made eye contact with him he asked "are you the guy with the gun." As I began to notify him, he told me to turn around and place my hands behind my back. Without probable cause officer Stroud confiscated my gun and the extra magazine I was carrying, and handcuffed me. Again I expressed my compliance, but not consent. His response was "that doesn't matter." This is the officer that can be heard later on in the recording saying "we have you out numbered and out gunned." At this point the officers have stolen my identification, my CHL, my gun, and my spare magazine. I was placed in the back of the nearest police car and the door was closed.

    I sat in the police car, publicly humiliated, for a long time in the July heat, There was no AC running and the windows were rolled up. It was miserably hot. Eventually an officer cracked the right rear window next to me so that the officers could speak to me.

    During my arrest, I asked several time "am I under arrest." The answer was always "no." I followed with "am I being detained." The answer was always "no." I followed with "am I free to go." The answer was always "no."

    I asked for badge numbers multiple times. The officers declined. At one point I asked Officer Web if the 2-digit numbers on their physical badges were their badge numbers. Officer Web said "yes." At the end of the event, I insisted one more time that all names and badge numbers be written down. When one officer mockingly wrote down the badge numbers of his criminal co-workers, they were all 3-digit numbers. Later, the public information requests confirmed that Officer Web lied about the 2-digit badge numbers.

    After being threatened with misdemeanor and felony charges because I open carry, I was finally released and my stolen property was returned.

    That was my Saturday. I spent Sunday very nervous. I called off work on Monday in order to select and contact a lawyer. Taking a day off work cost me a lot of money. On Tuesday, I went in to work to find out that my position had been outsourced and I was being laid off. Had I not lost my job, I would have immediately filed lawsuits. Since I was intending to find a job and then sue the Township, and because felony charges had been threatened, I followed my lawyer's advice to not publish anything about the event on the internet. That is the largest reason that this is only now being made public. Recently I have had to accept the reality that "equal justice under law" is something that I could not afford and began gathering the information to make it public.

    I filed a public records request with the township. The response took well over 2 weeks and was very scant. The township never did completely fulfill my records request, even after a written complaint to Michael Hinnenkamp the Township Administrator. I requested the township provide me the policy that requires police officers to identify themselves by badge number when requested. There is none according to Mr. Hinnenkamp. I requested that all reports of the event be provided to me. Even though two of officer's notes cards indicated that Field Interrogation Reports were filed (see http://ocjs.ohio.gov/leot/fimanual.pdf), Mr. Hinnenkamp refused to produce them under the guise that they did not exist. A call was made from a pro-2A friend of mine to Police Chief David Heimpold the week following the event. I was told that the chief had some colorful verbiage to describe me with. I also requested the recording of that call (intending to file a complaint of behavior unbecoming) but was told the recording does not exist.

    Mr. Hinnenkamp also tried to use records retention policies as an excuse to continue the cover up. I told him that my lawyer's original letter (July, 2010) to the township's Law Director (Laura Abrams) contained a notice that all records of this event were to remain immediately available indefinitely. He had no response to that.

    During the fall of 2010 I found a small syringe with a hypodermic needle attached laying on the ground in my neighborhood. I also found a crack pipe. I did not report this to the police because I am more afraid of Springfield Township Police than I am the local druggies.

    I also found a rusted out shotgun sticking out of the mud in the neighborhood creek. Parts with serial numbers were badly defaced. I left it there. Interactions with the police are too much of a risk for law-abiding citizens like me to report such things.

    In February 2011, my son and I came home from church on a Wednesday night. The man that was living across the street came out to meet us as we were getting out of the car. He was carrying a long-handled axe and shouted from the street "you f#####d with my truck and now I'm going to kill you." I was in my driveway, a sufficient distance away. It wasn't much of a decision. I chose to address the man verbally as we made our way into the house rather than take the risk of calling the police. No one was injured, and no, I didn't mess with his truck. His girlfriend kicked him out less than a week later because he was physically abusive.

    In July, 2011 another man is stopped by Springfield Township Police for open carry of a firearm (OC) while walking to a park. I will let someone else relate that story if they choose to (hint, hint).

    Since I only recently got a job, I have resigned to the reality that I will not have the money to for lawsuits before the statute of limitations runs out. So I began the public information request process described above.

    Here's the good part:
    On September 13, 2011 there is the monthly Springfield Township Trustees meeting. After all the official business, the meeting is opened to members of the public. One man addresses the trustees with his concerns about the civil rights violations that occurred when he was stopped by Springfield Township Police, in a complete absence of RAS/PC. He requests the townships policies on armed civilians. Laura Abrams, the Law Director, replies "we don't have a policy on that; we also don't have a policy on murders."

    Police Chief David Heimpold responds with "99.9 percent of the time when someone is open carrying a gun down the street, our officers are going to stop him." He then takes the 0.1% of uncertainty out of it and announces "when we see someone walking down the street and they are open carrying a gun, we're going to stop him (sic)."

    Trustee Gwen Mcfarland addresses the issue by stating that she has her CHL, but does nothing to reign in the rogue police chief.

    Trustee Tom Bryan addresses the issue by announcing that he also has his CHL, is a member of the NRA, and is very pro 2A. He also falls into a spineless silence and does nothing to support the rights of the citizens.

    Another civilian presents his concerns to the trustees about Chief Heimpold's flippant disregard for civil rights. Trustee Honnerlaw tries to justify the chief's remarks with Terry v. Ohio but is aptly reminded that Terry stops still require RAS/PC and that OC is legal.

    I have a DVD of this meeting. The entire recording can be watched here: http://www.waycross.tv/stvod.
    I removed two excerpts from the DVD. Part I is the first speaker I mentioned and can viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRR6qLX1kII.

    Part II is the second speaker mentioned above and can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uymrc...eature=related

    Springfield Township Police has demonstrated a pattern of abusing the civil rights of legally armed civilians. Springfield Township Police Chief David Heimpold has stated his intention to continue this illegal behavior. IMHO, anyone that could possibly ever go into Springfield Township legally armed has a valid complaint against the chief for his threats to stop them without RAS/PC, and it would be constructive to formalize that complaint with the township (http://www.springfieldtwp.org/HowToF...rComplaint.cfm), the Ohio Attorney General's office (http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/E...lic-Corruption), and the U.S. Department of Justice (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investig...s/color_of_law).

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    , Ohio, USA
    Posts
    291
    Chief David Heimpold = neanderthal thinking....Thanks for posting! We will meet and greet another neanderthal in Waverly Friday, 4-27. Be there or be square!

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Vandalia, Ohio
    Posts
    22
    How much longer do you have until the statute of limitations runs out? Is there any legal basis for that being extended if a formal complaint is filed? I hate that this happened to you Sigger.

    Chris

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Olive Hill, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigger View Post
    Go get a cup of coffee. This is a long post.

    On Saturday July 17, 2010 I was shopping at the Finnytown Kroger on Winton Rd., in Springfield Township (Southwest Ohio). As I was moving along the back of the store filling up a cart, a manager walked by me and did a double take as he noticed my gun holstered at 4:00. He turned around and came back to ask me if I was a police officer. The brief conversation, and all of the ensuing hullabaloo was captured on my voice recorder (http://www.kingsknight.org/7-17-20101400.wma).

    Several minutes later Springfield Township Police officer Nick Nimskern shows up. Even though it wasn't required, I notified. As you can hear on the audio, the officer basically admitted that he did not know the law about firearms and thereby admitted that he had no reasonable suspicion (RAS) or probable cause (PC) for stopping me. The officer, without legal authority to do so, then ordered me to produce identification (ORC 2921.29 requires RAS/PC). This was the first of many times on the audio recording that you will here me ask the police "is that a request or an order" and virtually every time I was told it was an order. Every time my reply was "I will comply but I do not consent." Forcing me to produce my drivers license and Ohio CHL was the first violation of my civil rights under the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (protection from unreasonable search and seizure).

    Without legal authority, the officer then demanded that I cover my gun with the T-shirt I was wearing. One reason that I OC is to make a statement to the public. This was a violation of my civil rights under the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (freedom of speech).

    Without authority, the officer then ordered me to leave the store. No representative of the store had ever asked me to leave. Over my objection, I was escorted out the front door.

    As soon as I exited the store officer Stroud tried to sneak up behind me. When I made eye contact with him he asked "are you the guy with the gun." As I began to notify him, he told me to turn around and place my hands behind my back. Without probable cause officer Stroud confiscated my gun and the extra magazine I was carrying, and handcuffed me. Again I expressed my compliance, but not consent. His response was "that doesn't matter." This is the officer that can be heard later on in the recording saying "we have you out numbered and out gunned." At this point the officers have stolen my identification, my CHL, my gun, and my spare magazine. I was placed in the back of the nearest police car and the door was closed.

    I sat in the police car, publicly humiliated, for a long time in the July heat, There was no AC running and the windows were rolled up. It was miserably hot. Eventually an officer cracked the right rear window next to me so that the officers could speak to me.

    During my arrest, I asked several time "am I under arrest." The answer was always "no." I followed with "am I being detained." The answer was always "no." I followed with "am I free to go." The answer was always "no."

    I asked for badge numbers multiple times. The officers declined. At one point I asked Officer Web if the 2-digit numbers on their physical badges were their badge numbers. Officer Web said "yes." At the end of the event, I insisted one more time that all names and badge numbers be written down. When one officer mockingly wrote down the badge numbers of his criminal co-workers, they were all 3-digit numbers. Later, the public information requests confirmed that Officer Web lied about the 2-digit badge numbers.

    After being threatened with misdemeanor and felony charges because I open carry, I was finally released and my stolen property was returned.

    That was my Saturday. I spent Sunday very nervous. I called off work on Monday in order to select and contact a lawyer. Taking a day off work cost me a lot of money. On Tuesday, I went in to work to find out that my position had been outsourced and I was being laid off. Had I not lost my job, I would have immediately filed lawsuits. Since I was intending to find a job and then sue the Township, and because felony charges had been threatened, I followed my lawyer's advice to not publish anything about the event on the internet. That is the largest reason that this is only now being made public. Recently I have had to accept the reality that "equal justice under law" is something that I could not afford and began gathering the information to make it public.

    I filed a public records request with the township. The response took well over 2 weeks and was very scant. The township never did completely fulfill my records request, even after a written complaint to Michael Hinnenkamp the Township Administrator. I requested the township provide me the policy that requires police officers to identify themselves by badge number when requested. There is none according to Mr. Hinnenkamp. I requested that all reports of the event be provided to me. Even though two of officer's notes cards indicated that Field Interrogation Reports were filed (see http://ocjs.ohio.gov/leot/fimanual.pdf), Mr. Hinnenkamp refused to produce them under the guise that they did not exist. A call was made from a pro-2A friend of mine to Police Chief David Heimpold the week following the event. I was told that the chief had some colorful verbiage to describe me with. I also requested the recording of that call (intending to file a complaint of behavior unbecoming) but was told the recording does not exist.

    Mr. Hinnenkamp also tried to use records retention policies as an excuse to continue the cover up. I told him that my lawyer's original letter (July, 2010) to the township's Law Director (Laura Abrams) contained a notice that all records of this event were to remain immediately available indefinitely. He had no response to that.

    During the fall of 2010 I found a small syringe with a hypodermic needle attached laying on the ground in my neighborhood. I also found a crack pipe. I did not report this to the police because I am more afraid of Springfield Township Police than I am the local druggies.

    I also found a rusted out shotgun sticking out of the mud in the neighborhood creek. Parts with serial numbers were badly defaced. I left it there. Interactions with the police are too much of a risk for law-abiding citizens like me to report such things.

    In February 2011, my son and I came home from church on a Wednesday night. The man that was living across the street came out to meet us as we were getting out of the car. He was carrying a long-handled axe and shouted from the street "you f#####d with my truck and now I'm going to kill you." I was in my driveway, a sufficient distance away. It wasn't much of a decision. I chose to address the man verbally as we made our way into the house rather than take the risk of calling the police. No one was injured, and no, I didn't mess with his truck. His girlfriend kicked him out less than a week later because he was physically abusive.

    In July, 2011 another man is stopped by Springfield Township Police for open carry of a firearm (OC) while walking to a park. I will let someone else relate that story if they choose to (hint, hint).

    Since I only recently got a job, I have resigned to the reality that I will not have the money to for lawsuits before the statute of limitations runs out. So I began the public information request process described above.

    Here's the good part:
    On September 13, 2011 there is the monthly Springfield Township Trustees meeting. After all the official business, the meeting is opened to members of the public. One man addresses the trustees with his concerns about the civil rights violations that occurred when he was stopped by Springfield Township Police, in a complete absence of RAS/PC. He requests the townships policies on armed civilians. Laura Abrams, the Law Director, replies "we don't have a policy on that; we also don't have a policy on murders."

    Police Chief David Heimpold responds with "99.9 percent of the time when someone is open carrying a gun down the street, our officers are going to stop him." He then takes the 0.1% of uncertainty out of it and announces "when we see someone walking down the street and they are open carrying a gun, we're going to stop him (sic)."

    Trustee Gwen Mcfarland addresses the issue by stating that she has her CHL, but does nothing to reign in the rogue police chief.

    Trustee Tom Bryan addresses the issue by announcing that he also has his CHL, is a member of the NRA, and is very pro 2A. He also falls into a spineless silence and does nothing to support the rights of the citizens.

    Another civilian presents his concerns to the trustees about Chief Heimpold's flippant disregard for civil rights. Trustee Honnerlaw tries to justify the chief's remarks with Terry v. Ohio but is aptly reminded that Terry stops still require RAS/PC and that OC is legal.

    I have a DVD of this meeting. The entire recording can be watched here: http://www.waycross.tv/stvod.
    I removed two excerpts from the DVD. Part I is the first speaker I mentioned and can viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRR6qLX1kII.

    Part II is the second speaker mentioned above and can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uymrc...eature=related

    Springfield Township Police has demonstrated a pattern of abusing the civil rights of legally armed civilians. Springfield Township Police Chief David Heimpold has stated his intention to continue this illegal behavior. IMHO, anyone that could possibly ever go into Springfield Township legally armed has a valid complaint against the chief for his threats to stop them without RAS/PC, and it would be constructive to formalize that complaint with the township (http://www.springfieldtwp.org/HowToF...rComplaint.cfm), the Ohio Attorney General's office (http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/E...lic-Corruption), and the U.S. Department of Justice (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investig...s/color_of_law).
    Since police policies only apply to the police, I am glad they don't have a policy on murder(sarc)

    If they have any written policies, I would like to know what process they went through to establish them. What is important and what is not so important so to speak.

  5. #5
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    cincinnati
    Posts
    1
    I know this post is from a while ago, and im not sure how i stumbled across it. Am I correct that with a ccw license the liquor license clause that they quoted does not apply as long as you are not drinking? This Krogers does have a sign that says you MAY be in violation if you carry here etc and quotes some liquor law that seems to not apply if you have ccw. Ill see if I can get a picture but wanted to get some input as I go to this store somewhat often.

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,607
    Quote Originally Posted by capcrash View Post
    I know this post is from a while ago, and im not sure how i stumbled across it. Am I correct that with a ccw license the liquor license clause that they quoted does not apply as long as you are not drinking? This Krogers does have a sign that says you MAY be in violation if you carry here etc and quotes some liquor law that seems to not apply if you have ccw. Ill see if I can get a picture but wanted to get some input as I go to this store somewhat often.
    Correct, but not all of their employees know company policy or the law. See http://www.thekrogerco.com/docs/stat...-in-stores.pdf
    Also: https://www.pdf-archive.com/2015/09/...h-exhibits.pdf

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Time to file a non-consent to consensual encounters order with the police (and definitely when an experience like the OP was encountered)

    I did this with several police depts....one violated one and now I'm suing them.

    And I made it clear that any further non-RAS, non-PC contacts would be seen as assault, giving me the option of arresting them.

    Oh, the howling .....

    Why yap yap yapping with the cop? Rookie mistake. Just say "go away!" if one does not have a non-consent order in place.

    But this is just me, Mr. Nice Guy. Living in a state with good citizen arrest law.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 01-02-2017 at 11:41 AM.

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,352
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Correct, but not all of their employees know company policy or the law. See http://www.thekrogerco.com/docs/stat...-in-stores.pdf
    Also: https://www.pdf-archive.com/2015/09/...h-exhibits.pdf
    Kroger has a corporate policy of following the state law where each store is located.

    Was swatted in a local Kroger a while back. Long story - short version is I told the nice officers to review the store security tapes, then to contact me if the felt such was necessary....and I left...w/o further molestation.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Kroger has a corporate policy of following the state law where each store is located.

    Was swatted in a local Kroger a while back. Long story - short version is I told the nice officers to review the store security tapes, then to contact me if the felt such was necessary....and I left...w/o further molestation.
    You mean someone swatted you Grape?

    Defamation case is pending?

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,352
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You mean someone swatted you Grape?

    Defamation case is pending?
    Haven't you heard? I'm a target rich environment......outside of the fish barrel.

    No defamation case - I was not made to doing anything against my will and didn't feel insulted/embarrassed. Actually was good publicity, well observed.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Haven't you heard? I'm a target rich environment......outside of the fish barrel.

    No defamation case - I was not made to doing anything against my will and didn't feel insulted/embarrassed. Actually was good publicity, well observed.

    How you felt is irrelevant to a defamation case. If you have a decent case you should move forward with it IMO...otherwise the cycle will just continue unabated.

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,352
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    How you felt is irrelevant to a defamation case. If you have a decent case you should move forward with it IMO...otherwise the cycle will just continue unabated.
    My swatting, my choice.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,867
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    My swatting, my choice.
    If you weren't such a "bad hombre", this kind of stuff wouldn't keep happening to you.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,352
    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    If you weren't such a "bad hombre", this kind of stuff wouldn't keep happening to you.
    Said the pot to the kettle.

    Guess that I am just lucky that way......it pays to advertise......the 1A + 2A = all that you need to know.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-08-2017 at 03:48 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •