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Thread: Kirby cleaners- door to door: scam, or potential threat?

  1. #1
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    Kirby cleaners- door to door: scam, or potential threat?

    Got a question to run by folks-may just be a local thing, or who knows-but-

    Working in my front yard yesterday- a van goes by, turns around, and pulls over just past my drive-way. 2 folks get out- inside the van I see at least 4 possibly a 5th occupant. (15-passenger/full-size van).
    Subject A- Ill refer to him, the "spokesperson" approaches my front gate, waves and smiles. Pitbull (75lbs of teeth and muscle) decides to make my visitor aware of her shiny, sharp teeth. Totally un-phased, the guy arrives at my gate, and begins reaching in to try to open it. At the same time, Subject B - ill refer to him as the "silent partner" since he doesnt say word one the entire time- just smiles and looks around everywhere..

    I'm OC with my .45 as always. I make it as obvious as I can to the fellow attempting to open my gate that Mr. Browning's finest is now in hand, and to step back from the gate at least 5 paces, I will come to HIM, not the other way around.
    He complies, but hesitates.. I begin to approach the gate, and seeing my hand still on the .45, he finally steps back, as does SP.
    I ask what they want- they say they are offering free carpet-shampoo for 1 room as a demo of some service or other.
    I tell em no thnx, but how may I contact them, if I decide to do so some other time. A hands me a flyer and continues to spew some sales pitch I dont even bother listening to.

    I look at the flyer. Absolutely no name -brand of anything on it, no phone #, no biz address, no website URL. Just quality prints of well-dressed folks vacumming rugs.. I hand it back, saying no thnx- but do u have a biz card or something with contact info.
    He says no, but he can come back another time- when would be good?
    I tell em dont bother. And dont bother with the neighbors, either. it's time to make the quickest possible escape to where ever -away from here- they might feel safe- do not return.
    They got back in the van and drove off.

    Now.. legit? semi-legit? scam? potential casing operation? I mean really, 5-6 people to give a rug shampoo demo? rly?
    Go to the trouble and expense of a professionally-laid-out and printed (on quality print stock) "flyer" but no contact info or biz info of any kind? And only ONE copy of it? (wife makes professional promotional materials, and Ive done the photo-work for thousands of such adverts, etc.- folks dont usually get just one- and if they are trying to promote an upstart biz- they usually think to include some kind of contact info)

    Any thoughts? Thing's been nagging my brain ever since.

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    Sounds to me like they were checking out the neighborhood, maybe trying to get to see the inside of some houses so they could see if people had anything worth stealing. I would be VERY concerned about someone who didn't back off when I asked them to while OC.

    I would definitely talk with a few neighbors and let them know about it. I would also let the local LEA know about it, depending on what kind of relationship you have with them. The police might know if they have been in other neighborhoods and if there were any complaints or criminal activity associated with their presence.

    I think you handled it well. At least they know that one person in that neighborhood is armed!
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Scouting party.
    It doesn't take a van-load of people to operate any sort of equipment that will clean the average residence.

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    Bout what I was figuring. All the alarm bells were ringing before the guy even reached the fence, or I knew what he was "offering".
    Immediate locals are advised , as of now.-there's only 8 of us. Im on the Advisory Council for the Sheriff's office, so they'll get the intel tommorow..
    Thing is-out where I am, you have to drive nearly 40 minutes to even reach us. Next nearest area is a target-rich, open sub-division. Odd that they would pass up 100's of potential customers to drive all the way out to bum-f ck egypt..

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Did you call the Sheriff the day this happened or just today?

    Would've have been better to contact them, with license # and desctiption, at the time it happened. If you did, great. If not, then poor performance.

    Also, I kinda think that the hand on the gun thing while you approached Spokesperson and SP was a bit over the top.

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    Dude, it was definite a scouting trip. You should report it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HankT View Post
    Did you call the Sheriff the day this happened or just today?

    Would've have been better to contact them, with license # and desctiption, at the time it happened. If you did, great. If not, then poor performance.

    Also, I kinda think that the hand on the gun thing while you approached Spokesperson and SP was a bit over the top.
    Reported it today. At the time, though my suspicions were ringing up, I didnt think much more about it. It was only after I'd gone to the store, and passed a gas station down the road, where the van was parked-and it's occupants milling around, at 9pm at night, that I remembered this, and it got me to thinking how hokey the whole situation seemed.

    At the time it occured, they had parked their van just past my drive-way, and at such an angle I was unable to get a plate # without going out TO it, which I wasnt inclined to do at the time.
    Sheriff's office is notified, and will keep an eye out. Neighbors are alerted to it, now. I have my camera and video handy, in case they are spotted again in the area.

    As far as over the top? Im not inclined to think so. I was alone- facing potentially 5-6 individuals. 2 of which had not been the least bit deterred by my 75lb Pit bull growling and bearing it's teeth at them, nor at the sight of an armed individual telling them to step back from my gate- which, btw they were attempting to open and waltz on in.
    Last edited by j4l; 04-04-2012 at 04:36 PM.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    I say good awareness on your part. They were probably up to no good. I similarly answer my door with my hand on my gun if I am not expecting visitors.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    i consistantly answer the door w/hand resting on my 5.7 while meeting visitors to the property as they drive up the short driveway. A current scam running through my rural town is a pizza delivery person arrives at the 'wrong' door w/pizza box in hand...the deputy i contacted advised the delivery person checks out the house to see how the door is answered, if at all. apparently another group comes back later to 'say hello w/home invasion or break in.'

    wabbit

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    This relates directly to this thread. Scary stuff!!

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...-home-invasion
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  11. #11
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    vaccuum sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Scouting party.
    It doesn't take a van-load of people to operate any sort of equipment that will clean the average residence.
    Back in the stone age I sold vacs door-to-door ...and I was always alone.
    In my view there isn't enough payout in any individual sale to cover the costs of a van full of bodies.


    Be very watchful.

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    OP, pretty good SA. We weren't there, and can tell you the little things you did/din't do perfect...But, your first line of defense, was operating fine. Fido would have slowed them down very shortly after they cleared the open gate...Hand on gun, depending, could be a brandishing. We can argue all day, but the he said, she said, act remains, that you were intimidating a person to scare them, and in sme jurisdictions that could be enough...If you do not have a no tresspassing sign on your fence/gate, in some jurisdictions it is required. I have chased punks out of my yard, called the police and the first thing they did was ask if it is posted. Is now, but wasn't then. I'm also willing to bet they were dressed very nondescriptly. No uniform, just simple colors. No logo hats, you get the picture.
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    Much similar event at my house last month. I was in the kitchen working on dinner while my wife was in the back bathing our 6month old. My 2 boxers alerted to something in front of the house. The door bell rang and I peeked out the front door to see a guy in slacks and a button up.

    I step out unarmed(I know, bad move). Close the door behind me to keep the dogs in. He wants to know if I'd be interested in a free carpet cleaning. I was already kind of on alert because it was a little after 7pm. But the weirdest part is I see his buddy across the street knocking on doors too.

    I used to work for a carpet cleaning business. So I start asking questions. He couldn't give me one straight answer. Similarly no contact info. Only that they were from out of state and thinking of opening an office nearby. I sent him on his way and went back inside. I call the local sheriff as I watched them walk down the street and gave descriptions. Never heard back from the SO but I've been looking out my window a bit more lately.

    The weirdest part of all was these guys on foot. Never once did I see a van. Definitely some type of scam or scouting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmansu2 View Post
    Much similar event at my house last month. I was in the kitchen working on dinner while my wife was in the back bathing our 6month old. My 2 boxers alerted to something in front of the house. The door bell rang and I peeked out the front door to see a guy in slacks and a button up.

    I step out unarmed(I know, bad move). Close the door behind me to keep the dogs in. He wants to know if I'd be interested in a free carpet cleaning. I was already kind of on alert because it was a little after 7pm. But the weirdest part is I see his buddy across the street knocking on doors too.

    I used to work for a carpet cleaning business. So I start asking questions. He couldn't give me one straight answer. Similarly no contact info. Only that they were from out of state and thinking of opening an office nearby. I sent him on his way and went back inside. I call the local sheriff as I watched them walk down the street and gave descriptions. Never heard back from the SO but I've been looking out my window a bit more lately.

    The weirdest part of all was these guys on foot. Never once did I see a van. Definitely some type of scam or scouting.
    Indeed. They may have parked their van down the road- then dispersed on foot, sending x # of folks door-to-door.
    The out of state thing gets me wondering about possibly Gypsy operations... used get a lot of those around town.

    The dressed-up thing, was one thing the folks that came here had going on. All were in button-up, long-sleaves, slacks etc. Attempting to at least look presentable.But.. there's the rub. Some old lady may answer a door somewhere and think "ah what a nice, sharp young man"

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    From my own experience they are legit door to door Kirby salesmen and they do work in groups, basically blanket a neighborhood in a day or two then move on. Not that some thugs could impersonate a salesman anyway. I have purchased a vacuum and the reason for the flyer without contact info is because they are VERY pushy and want to get in the house, set up the cleaner, demo it for you and then start working on you to buy one. These guys/gals are used carmen on steroids!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyras21 View Post
    From my own experience they are legit door to door Kirby salesmen and they do work in groups, basically blanket a neighborhood in a day or two then move on.
    I've seen this too. Not unusual.

    And not necessarily suspicious.

    On the other hand, if a person IS suspicious, then he or she should act in a logical and consistent manner with such suspicion in mind.

    OP was (very) suspicious and interacted with the two salesmen. OP made them move to where he thought they should be, questioned them ,and inspected their materials. OP also decided to put his hand on his gun and makes sure his gone is "obvious" to the interlopers.

    OP gathers data about the vehichle, where it's parked and who the passengers are. OP even brings a nearby community's sales potential into the analysis. The interaction ends and the suspicious guys drive off and OP remains with "alarm bells" ringing.

    Yet the OP DOES NOT CALL HIS SUSPICIONS AND INFORMATION TO LOCAL LE FOR THESE SUSPECTS TO BE CHECKED OUT.

    Doesn't make sense. It's not consistent.

    I give OP a grade of C for handling the verbal/physical interaction. He gets a D- for failing to call it in until over 48 hours later. If those guys were deemed dangerous enough to be approached with a hand on his gun, then they deserved to be reported. What if they really were bad guys? And then went to the next victim to perform their felonious assaults before they had come to the attention of LE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyras21 View Post
    From my own experience they are legit door to door Kirby salesmen and they do work in groups, basically blanket a neighborhood in a day or two then move on. Not that some thugs could impersonate a salesman anyway. I have purchased a vacuum and the reason for the flyer without contact info is because they are VERY pushy and want to get in the house, set up the cleaner, demo it for you and then start working on you to buy one. These guys/gals are used carmen on steroids!
    I've heard the same. A Kirby salesman wheeled and dealed his way into my friend's house, and she could not get rid of him. I think her husband had to come home and kick the guy out.

    On the note of suspicious solicitors; last summer my husband and I were enjoying a pleasant afternoon at home, when someone knocked on our door. We both answered, in our typical defense positions (me slightly behind and to the side of him) and saw a young guy standing on our porch, holding a clipboard. He was wearing a t-shirt and ratty cargo shorts, and pretty much looked like the college bum type.

    He started off on some whole spiel about this company would come to our homes and offer a free estimate on blah blah blah, and could he just come in to write a few notes about our home for the appraisers? He seemed totally oblivious to our OCed firearms, and if we hadn't been standing the way we were, I felt he might have tried sauntering on in.

    We told him no, we weren't interested, have a nice day, yadda yadda. He continues the spiel again, we repeat ourselves, and he starts getting kind of pushy and desperate. He said something about getting paid per house he got signed up, and could we please just help him out? We flat out told him no and shut the door.

    I kept an eye out and didn't see him walking up to any other houses, and I didn't see where he disappeared to; (we live on a hill that was probably dry during the Biblical Flood!) but we didn't really have anything to report, other than a kind of obnoxious kid who may or may not have been working for a legitimate company.

  18. #18
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma
    A Kirby salesman wheeled and dealed his way into my friend's house, and she could not get rid of him. I think her husband had to come home and kick the guy out.
    Sort of like vampires... they have to be invited in, & won't leave.
    Another angle to consider is that in the Castle Doctrine laws I've read, they require some kind of force to be used to enter the home. Opening a door or window is force. Without that, you'd have to rely on self-defense, which often isn't as well-protected (from a legal angle).
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Scouting party.
    It doesn't take a van-load of people to operate any sort of equipment that will clean the average residence.
    My take is you did EXACTLY THE RIGHT THING!!! They were either scouting your hood or pulling a Trojan Horse/Home Invasion scam on you.

    I hope you alerted all your neighbors you're pals/friendly with right away and the other neighbors next.

    The van was only half full of people to make room for the LOOT they were gonna swipe from you and the neighbors.

    You should have dialed 911 and reported this SCAM and plate number+descriptions to the cops. How many Senior Citizen types are there in your hood who might have fell victim to these A-holes??

    It might be a good time to start a Neighborhood Watch Program in your hood with you as the Captain!!!

    I've run floor cleaning equipment before and it does NOT take more than one or two people to operate it.
    Even if these guys had of been legit they NEVER would have made it inside my front door. I just flat DON'T LET STRANGERS IN MY HOUSE!!!
    Besides the carpet shampooer that could clean my carpet hasn't been made yet. The ONLY thing holding my rug together is the dirt and dust in it.
    Last edited by noname762; 04-06-2012 at 07:16 PM. Reason: I'm old and gray...

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    Quote Originally Posted by HankT View Post
    I've seen this too. Not unusual.

    And not necessarily suspicious.

    On the other hand, if a person IS suspicious, then he or she should act in a logical and consistent manner with such suspicion in mind.

    OP was (very) suspicious and interacted with the two salesmen. OP made them move to where he thought they should be, questioned them ,and inspected their materials. OP also decided to put his hand on his gun and makes sure his gone is "obvious" to the interlopers.

    OP gathers data about the vehichle, where it's parked and who the passengers are. OP even brings a nearby community's sales potential into the analysis. The interaction ends and the suspicious guys drive off and OP remains with "alarm bells" ringing.

    Yet the OP DOES NOT CALL HIS SUSPICIONS AND INFORMATION TO LOCAL LE FOR THESE SUSPECTS TO BE CHECKED OUT.

    Doesn't make sense. It's not consistent.

    I give OP a grade of C for handling the verbal/physical interaction. He gets a D- for failing to call it in until over 48 hours later. If those guys were deemed dangerous enough to be approached with a hand on his gun, then they deserved to be reported. What if they really were bad guys? And then went to the next victim to perform their felonious assaults before they had come to the attention of LE?

    For once I find myself agreeing with Hank T most especially concerning the 48 hours the OP waited before informing the local LEO. ((OHHH Tell me it ain't so noname!!!))

    But DON'T get a big head about it Hank T....I still don't like you just like many others here do not care for you. Actually I'm surprised you're still allowed to post here!!!

  21. #21
    Regular Member RCall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyras21 View Post
    From my own experience they are legit door to door Kirby salesmen and they do work in groups, basically blanket a neighborhood in a day or two then move on. Not that some thugs could impersonate a salesman anyway. I have purchased a vacuum and the reason for the flyer without contact info is because they are VERY pushy and want to get in the house, set up the cleaner, demo it for you and then start working on you to buy one. These guys/gals are used carmen on steroids!
    My brother-in-law sold these vacuums for a while a couple years ago. The way he told me it worked was like cyras21 wrote.

    He also told me they didn't do background checks on the sales people.

  22. #22
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    Don't know if it was the same company but we had a carpet cleaning crew come around to our neighborhood recently. They ticked me off from the very beginning.

    First they started out by blocking the tailend of our street and I couldn't get around their van to park. As I honked my horn and yelled that the street is not a parking spot 5 youth jumped out with clipboards and fliers. I immediately groaned (springtime in VA and the door-to-door sales annoyances have already begun).

    Anyway I parked and waited until I thought they had passed my house before getting out of my car. I was OCing my Kahr. Two of them saw me and walked over. Gave me the carpet schpeel. I told them no and stated I don't like strangers in my home. They were quite persistent. I don't think they noticed my Kahr. I finally moved my hand and patted my Kahr and kindly said "No Thank You". The girl noticed and grabbed the other kid and they scurried on to their next sucker (I mean neighbor). I giggled on into my house. Yay


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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    A few years ago I talked to one young man outside my house for a while and noticed some odd writing on his name tag. He had a chaperone with him which seemed odd. I asked what it said. He gave me the name of the juvenile detention center where he "lived". Said he was out on work release project. I can't remember what all I said to him but I do recall saying something like "no offense but there's no way you're coming in my house now" and then sent them on their way.

    They hire juvies and ex-cons for the sales canvassing because it's cheap labor and they just need to make as many sales as possible.



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    Well, like I said, I at first didnt think all that much of it, other than it was very odd, and that these folks were a bit too forward- trying to open up my gate like they were just going to waltz on in,etc. When I went out to them at my gate, looked at their flyer, and eyeballed them a bit , my instincts were to tell em "no thanks, you need to get going".
    And they got in their van and left my street.
    There are only 8 other neighbors out here. None of whom seemed to be home. Im home all the time during the weekdays, because I work from home. So, they approached the only person they saw at the time (middle of the day).
    It wasnt until I saw them again, later that nite at the gas station as I passed it, that I thought much more of it, and it began bugging me.
    To even get out to where I am, you have to drive 40-50 minutes into the countryside. There's squat-all out this way but farms. Early on in that 40+ min. drive, you have to pass roughly 6 or 7 sub-divisions full of potential customers. So why would you even bother coming all the way out here?
    I dealt with the situation as I felt best at the time. I said no, and sent them on their way.
    I figured I'd get a consenus -here- whether I was being overly cautious, or over-reacting, or not.
    For all I know they could be perfectly legit, if lacking in common-sense, but the more I thought about it, the more odd the whole thing seemed.
    6 folks to demonstrate a free carpet-cleaning? I dont think so. Not that Im inclined to let folks I dont know anyway.

    If I am in need or desire of a service like this, I call a reputable outfit with which I am familair.
    And, I in fact did so. I had my carpets cleaned yesterday, in fact, by a professional service I'd used in the past.
    They sent 2, young but professional lads over, who did a great job. I OC'd the entire time they were there, and supervised them when they were in my home. They had no issue with this, at all, and one admitted he does the same whenever he has any contract or service work done in his home, as well.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    .
    To even get out to where I am, you have to drive 40-50 minutes into the countryside. There's squat-all out this way but farms. Early on in that 40+ min. drive, you have to pass roughly 6 or 7 sub-divisions full of potential customers. So why would you even bother coming all the way out here?
    I dealt with the situation as I felt best at the time. I said no, and sent them on their way.
    I figured I'd get a consenus -here- whether I was being overly cautious, or over-reacting, or not.
    For all I know they could be perfectly legit, if lacking in common-sense, but the more I thought about it, the more odd the whole thing seemed.
    6 folks to demonstrate a free carpet-cleaning? I dont think so. Not that Im inclined to let folks I dont know anyway.

    If I am in need or desire of a service like this, I call a reputable outfit with which I am familair.
    I hope I didn't give you the wrong impression. I think you handled the situation fine. If I ever get my windows replaced or carpet cleaned its not going to be from a door-to-door salesman. It's hard to tell if their legit or casing neighborhoods to see who is home during the day.


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