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Thread: Question on video/voice recording in Colorado

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Question on video/voice recording in Colorado

    With an alarming increase in reports of LEO abuse not only OC but vehicle searches I have been really thinking of getting a video recorder pen like this....

    http://www.kassoy.com/digital-video_pen.html

    Or how about this... http://www.asianwolf.com/cctv-recorder-btdvr.html

    From every resource I have found it looks like Colorado is a "One Party Consent" state, which means only 1 party in a conversation (including telephone) has to know of the recording, either recording themselves or consenting to a third party recording.

    Does anyone know of any conflicting information?

    If Colorado is truly a "One Party Consent" state it would be perfectly legal to record police interaction without notifying the LEO that you were recording and I am likely to order one of these pens and I just might look into a vehicle mounted system so if LEO stops me and says (as in a recent report with dash cam) "The reason I stopped you is because you were weaving across the center line" I could play back an hour of video preceding the stop for the judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    With an alarming increase in reports of LEO abuse not only OC but vehicle searches I have been really thinking of getting a video recorder pen like this....
    In Colorado?

    My only other tip wold be, you get what you pay for. I've seen a lot of these cheapies get bad reviews because of inconsistent quality control. In a batch of 1000, five hundred are going to work great. Well, not great. They'll work with the promised low-frills features. If you get one of the others with one of 500 problems, you're still going to have a 50/50 shot of getting a problem even if you return it.
    Last edited by mahkagari; 04-04-2012 at 07:24 PM.

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    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    As far as I know your info is correct. Recording police without notification is perfectly legal in CO. I have also thought about getting one of these pens or something similar. Could especially come in handy while riding the motorcycle.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Gentlefolk!
    Here's the deal. You have the right to record anybody in public, video and audio, so long as one party knows a recording is being made. Since you are well aware you are doing the recording, that condition is satisfied when you turn on your recorder.

    Now that I am a process server, along with being a bounty hunter, I will record video of everything I do when working in the field. By that, I mean every cotton picking thing. When apprehending a skip, I'll be rolling video and audio. When serving papers, I'll be running video and audio. When interacting with an LEO, whether on my business or because he got involved in mine, you can rest assured I'll be rolling video and audio. The LEO's may not like it, but them's the berries. I am a citizen, and lawfully can record any interactions that involve them. And I certainly intend to do precisely that!

    As to gear, there are many really decent products that can be concealed about your person or in your vehicle that will perform flawlessly. Don't go cheap, or your results may prove disappointing. Get a quality unit with really good reviews from others who have bought the product. In fact, my intention today is to visit a police supply store (yes, an actual cop shop!!!) and get a unit that police officers themselves use to record us when they approach us! Cop shops tend to sell gear for cops; which doesn't preclude citizens from visiting their store to buy gear that isn't prohibited to citizens or "Police use only" type stuff. Otherwise, you can get whatever you need there, including such items as pepper spray, ASP batons, Tasers and other gear that might be nifty should you need to defend yourself short of deadly force.

    But the primary point of this here dissertation is.... You bet your best boots you have every right to record anybody in public so long as you know the recording is being made. Hopefully, you are aware of having turned the thing on to start with!

    Wouldn't it be ironic to open carry a loaded handgun but get busted for a concealed carry camera?

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    In Colorado?
    YUP....Just check out the Loveland CO sticky

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    Regular Member kanekutter05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Gentlefolk!
    Here's the deal. You have the right to record anybody in public, video and audio, so long as one party knows a recording is being made. Since you are well aware you are doing the recording, that condition is satisfied when you turn on your recorder.

    Now that I am a process server, along with being a bounty hunter, I will record video of everything I do when working in the field. By that, I mean every cotton picking thing. When apprehending a skip, I'll be rolling video and audio. When serving papers, I'll be running video and audio. When interacting with an LEO, whether on my business or because he got involved in mine, you can rest assured I'll be rolling video and audio. The LEO's may not like it, but them's the berries. I am a citizen, and lawfully can record any interactions that involve them. And I certainly intend to do precisely that!

    As to gear, there are many really decent products that can be concealed about your person or in your vehicle that will perform flawlessly. Don't go cheap, or your results may prove disappointing. Get a quality unit with really good reviews from others who have bought the product. In fact, my intention today is to visit a police supply store (yes, an actual cop shop!!!) and get a unit that police officers themselves use to record us when they approach us! Cop shops tend to sell gear for cops; which doesn't preclude citizens from visiting their store to buy gear that isn't prohibited to citizens or "Police use only" type stuff. Otherwise, you can get whatever you need there, including such items as pepper spray, ASP batons, Tasers and other gear that might be nifty should you need to defend yourself short of deadly force.

    But the primary point of this here dissertation is.... You bet your best boots you have every right to record anybody in public so long as you know the recording is being made. Hopefully, you are aware of having turned the thing on to start with!

    Wouldn't it be ironic to open carry a loaded handgun but get busted for a concealed carry camera?

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Just out of curiosity...what do you use for your audio/video recording equipment? I figure if anyone knows what a good setup is...it's a guy in your position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    YUP....Just check out the Loveland CO sticky
    Yeah, that incident happened 4 years ago with 290 miles and 5 hours driving between you and it. Billy discussed it at a meetup we had in Firestone 2.5 years ago, and the case was settled last year. I haven't seen any other reports in here about further illegal searches or detainments. Not many in the news either. Denver's as abusive toward minorities as ever, but I wouldn't say it's "on the rise", just more coming to light. If anything, I'd say since Billy's case and the media attention to DPD, you can just as easily argue that such illegal searches are on the decline in CO.

    Not that I don't think you shouldn't CYA, I just don't think adding alarmism to the state of our fair State adds to the conversation.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    Yeah, that incident happened 4 years ago with 290 miles and 5 hours driving between you and it. Billy discussed it at a meetup we had in Firestone 2.5 years ago, and the case was settled last year. I haven't seen any other reports in here about further illegal searches or detainments. Not many in the news either. Denver's as abusive toward minorities as ever, but I wouldn't say it's "on the rise", just more coming to light. If anything, I'd say since Billy's case and the media attention to DPD, you can just as easily argue that such illegal searches are on the decline in CO.

    Not that I don't think you shouldn't CYA, I just don't think adding alarmism to the state of our fair State adds to the conversation.
    I can give you five (5) such encounters from my personal experience within the last four years that meet the criteria for this conversation; and I am only one person.

    Whether that means they are on the rise, on the decline, or just on par, that's enough for me.
    Last edited by JamesB; 04-05-2012 at 03:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    I can give you five (5) such encounters from my personal experience within the last four years that meet the criteria for this conversation; and I am only one person..
    Please do. Don't need a play by play for each, but if there are unwarranted OC stops or vehicle searches, it'd be great to hear about them. If you can link to posts you've made, that'd be cool too. There was also the Bel-Mar incident. The default in the CO forum seems to be more positive encounters than LEO abuse.

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    WELL..... Most of us have never been criminally assaulted by a thug, FBI stats say crime is on the decline..........BUT; we all carry guns daily (or almost daily).

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Most recently, about two weeks ago, was an incident on campus that I cannot give out details for until I hear otherwise from my attorney.

    Two years ago, I was charged with a violation of 18-12-108. In other words CC without a CCW. I was on my motorcycle (in my vehicle), making a permit unnecessary, but that didn't matter to him.

    Also roughly two years ago, I was pulled over on Colfax. The reason he gave me for the traffic stop was the brake light in my rear window was out. I could see the light working in my mirror as he told me this. I know it was on Colfax and within Lakewood, but I do not know if that still made it inside JeffCo juristiction. It was JeffCo Sheriff.

    Two and a half years ago, I was pulled over on East Colfax by Denver Gang Unit. (When do they have traffic responsibilities?) They ran my information, and the serial number of my handgun, then returned everything and left.

    Three years ago, I had two Lakewood officers, sorry "agents," point thier guns at me within my own home. I had not been, nor was I, charged with or suspected of a crime.

    Believe me when I say there are a LOT more going back beyond that. But there's the last bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    WELL..... Most of us have never been criminally assaulted by a thug, FBI stats say crime is on the decline..........BUT; we all carry guns daily (or almost daily).
    I'm of the opinion that the latter is the cause of the former.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    I'm of the opinion that the latter is the cause of the former.
    For a second there, I swear I read that as us carrying guns was the cause of being assulted by a thug.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    Most recently, about two weeks ago, was an incident on campus that I cannot give out details for until I hear otherwise from my attorney.

    Two years ago, I was charged with a violation of 18-12-108. In other words CC without a CCW. I was on my motorcycle (in my vehicle), making a permit unnecessary, but that didn't matter to him.

    Also roughly two years ago, I was pulled over on Colfax. The reason he gave me for the traffic stop was the brake light in my rear window was out. I could see the light working in my mirror as he told me this. I know it was on Colfax and within Lakewood, but I do not know if that still made it inside JeffCo juristiction. It was JeffCo Sheriff.

    Two and a half years ago, I was pulled over on East Colfax by Denver Gang Unit. (When do they have traffic responsibilities?) They ran my information, and the serial number of my handgun, then returned everything and left.

    Three years ago, I had two Lakewood officers, sorry "agents," point thier guns at me within my own home. I had not been, nor was I, charged with or suspected of a crime.

    Believe me when I say there are a LOT more going back beyond that. But there's the last bit.
    I am damn curious about what happened in this particular situation...

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    I'm of the opinion that the latter is the cause of the former.
    I concur. The inverse correlation between gun sales and crime seems to support this hypothesis.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kanekutter05 View Post
    I am damn curious about what happened in this particular situation...
    It was basically a MWAG call and the caller had apearently followed me home. I say this since they seemed to know which door to knock on. When I answered, my gun was still in its holster on my belt, and for "officer safety" they decided I needed to be disarmed, at gunpoint, in order to converse with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    It was basically a MWAG call and the caller had apearently followed me home. I say this since they seemed to know which door to knock on. When I answered, my gun was still in its holster on my belt, and for "officer safety" they decided I needed to be disarmed, at gunpoint, in order to converse with them.
    Really?

    "I'm sorry, officer, but unless you have sufficient RAS/PC to place me under arrest, I will not disarm in my own home merely because you're scared for your safety. Perhaps you'd feel safer if I simply closed the door?"
    Last edited by since9; 04-15-2012 at 12:22 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Really?

    "I'm sorry, officer, but unless you have sufficient RAS/PC to place me under arrest, I will not disarm in my own home merely because you're scared for your safety. Perhaps you'd feel safer if I simply closed the door?"
    Gotta tell ya it sounds pretty good on a message board... It doesn't come out near so smooth when you're staring down the barrel of two loaded guns.

    I really do appreciate the armchair quarterbacking though.

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    Gotta tell ya it sounds pretty good on a message board... It doesn't come out near so smooth when you're staring down the barrel of two loaded guns.
    Yhea, I get tired of "I would have done this instead!" posts.

    Reminds me of an old joke, which, to compress it, a guy gets pulled over with some friends. Officer gives him a ticket. As he starts to walk away, he taps on the rear window behind the driver and the guy inside rolls it down, at which point the officer punches him in the face and says:

    "That's for what you would have done if you were the driver!"



    O2
    Last edited by O2HeN2; 04-15-2012 at 10:45 PM.
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
    They'll never take your "hunting rifle", they'll call it a "sniper rifle" first.
    Zero failures comes at infinite cost.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Really?

    "I'm sorry, officer, but unless you have sufficient RAS/PC to place me under arrest, I will not disarm in my own home merely because you're scared for your safety. Perhaps you'd feel safer if I simply closed the door?"
    Nope. I still feel the need to take this one another step farther.

    howsabout... "Really? I wouldn't have even opened the door to talk with them..."

    But since you went with the line that you did, do me one favor. Ask those cop buddies of yours what happens to people who don't comply with the police when they are given specific orders while at gunpoint. Then ask them what happens to folks who, while at gunpoint, try to "simply close the door" on them.

    PLEASE tell me the answers you get to those two simple questions, and then tell me that you would have carried out those actions.

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    I've been meaning to get myself a recorder and have been procrastinating getting one for too long now. Anyone know which is a good recorder?

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    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    My suggestion is, be very careful in doing it. Yes you have every right to record without the other persons consent, but if that person is a cop they can always make a false allegation, such as arresting you under the wiretapping law, and claim "that's what I interpreted it to say" as why they arrested you and miraculously your recording equipment will be damaged or destroyed and the recording no longer available.
    Remember they can also arrest you, take your equipment, destroy it, and do anything they want to you. So I suggest you make sure it's not easy to access for even you. Which can be done and still have easy access to the data stored.

    A good site for accurate information on recording is http://www.rcfp.org/can-we-tape/
    I have found them to be exceptionally accurate in comparison to other sites.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    I'm of the opinion that the latter is the cause of the former.
    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    WELL..... Most of us have never been criminally assaulted by a thug, FBI stats say crime is on the decline..........BUT; we all carry guns daily (or almost daily).
    Howdy Pardner!
    Let's consider what really is true about crime statistics.
    Our courts are overcrowded and judges face a loaded docket each and every day.
    Prosecuters notch their briefcases with wins in court to make their reputation, especially if they have political aspirations.
    The one thing they do not want is for every case to go to trial. In fact, they're delighted if none go to trial, because in a high percentage of cases, the defendant would be acquitted (assuming a decent attorney at his side!).

    So what do you have? What has gone up dramatically over the past decade or two?
    COPPING A PLEA!

    Plea bargains have replaced justice and paved the way to keep dockets managable, reduce case load on prosecutors, and ensure them an impressive record of convictions because too many people are willing to plea to a lesser charge than stand ground in court.

    Denver, in particular, is heinous in this regard. They'll take felony abuse of a child and plead it down to.................. are you ready for this.........
    Agricultural Trespass!!!!!

    Read that again for the impact of that statement.... they'll plead down molestation of a child to agricultural trespass.
    But so far as the FBI is concerned... why... child abuse cases are going down in Denver.

    So you have a person who steals a car, chases his girlfriend to a remote location and assaults her. Beats her half to death, then dumps the car.
    Does he get charged with the assault? no. Does he get charged with car theft? no.
    He pleads to the lesser charge of stalking. Really?

    Hey... it makes the crime rate go down! At least on paper.
    The truth is, if each criminal act were properly reported and analyzed,
    Crime is skyrocketing. Your odds are increasing daily that you'll be confronted by a criminal.
    The only surefire defense is to be ready and able to defend yourself.

    You can't rely on protection from the very people who are cooking the books to make themselves look better on paper when it comes down to your own flesh and blood.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Pardner!
    Let's consider what really is true about crime statistics.
    Our courts are overcrowded and judges face a loaded docket each and every day.
    Prosecuters notch their briefcases with wins in court to make their reputation, especially if they have political aspirations.
    The one thing they do not want is for every case to go to trial. In fact, they're delighted if none go to trial, because in a high percentage of cases, the defendant would be acquitted (assuming a decent attorney at his side!).

    ...snipped...

    You can't rely on protection from the very people who are cooking the books to make themselves look better on paper when it comes down to your own flesh and blood.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    To be fair, there is another side of this. The police know that this is going on in the courts. So when they arrest someone, they load up the charges with things that sometimes doent even make sense, just to give the prosecuter more room to wiggle and more charges available to drop in the plea. For example, someone is carrying concealed without a permit. When someone sees it and cops come, they charge him with carrying concealed, disorderly conduct, domestic violence (assuming his wife is there with him), and possibly even fellony menacing.

    Either way...the statistics are only as believable as the people who put them together. Personally I do not trust the FBI.

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