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Thread: Carry in a police station

  1. #1
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    Carry in a police station

    The IDPA club in my area has its annual meetings during the winter in a police station can I carry with my LTCH into a police station

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    I can't find any state laws prohibiting it, but you'd better learn title 35 article 47, chapter 11.1 like it is your favorite poem. Police officers don't like to be told what they can and can't do, especially in their own police station.

    http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/cod...47/ch11.1.html

  3. #3
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Most of us are men. We don't have favorite poems.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams
    Wheels

  4. #4
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post


    Most of us are men. We don't have favorite poems.
    Wow, a real man does. I would add more, but I have miles to go before I sleep and miles to go before I sleep.
    Last edited by Venator; 04-05-2012 at 12:51 PM.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    but I have miles to go before I sleep and miles to go before I sleep.
    Sounds like a biker saying. Love it!

  6. #6
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Wow, a real man does. I would add more, but I have miles to go before I sleep and miles to go before I sleep.
    Okay, I have actually quoted Frost on occasion. And maybe "In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure-dome decree: Where Alph, the sacred river, ran through caverns measureless to man down to a sunless sea."

    Not to mention:

    I hear an army charging upon the land,
    And the thunder of horses plunging, foam about their knees:
    Arrogant, in black armour, behind them stand,
    Disdaining the reins, with fluttering whips, the charioteers.

    They cry unto the night their battle-name:
    I moan in sleep when I hear afar their whirling laughter.
    They cleave the gloom of dreams, a blinding flame,
    Clanging, clanging upon the heart as upon an anvil.

    They come shaking in triumph their long, green hair:
    They come out of the sea and run shouting by the shore.
    My heart, have you no wisdom thus to despair?
    My love, my love, my love, why have you left me alone?


    But that's all!

    Last edited by griffin; 04-07-2012 at 01:45 AM.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams
    Wheels

  7. #7
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    Tennyson-Charge of the Light Brigade

    Half a league half a league,
    Half a league onward,
    All in the valley of Death
    Rode the six hundred:
    'Forward, the Light Brigade!
    Charge for the guns' he said:
    Into the valley of Death
    Rode the six hundred.

    'Forward, the Light Brigade!'
    Was there a man dismay'd ?
    Not tho' the soldier knew
    Some one had blunder'd:
    Theirs not to make reply,
    Theirs not to reason why,
    Theirs but to do & die,
    Into the valley of Death
    Rode the six hundred.

    Cannon to right of them,
    Cannon to left of them,
    Cannon in front of them
    Volley'd & thunder'd;
    Storm'd at with shot and shell,
    Boldly they rode and well,
    Into the jaws of Death,
    Into the mouth of Hell
    Rode the six hundred.

    Flash'd all their sabres bare,
    Flash'd as they turn'd in air
    Sabring the gunners there,
    Charging an army while
    All the world wonder'd:
    Plunged in the battery-smoke
    Right thro' the line they broke;
    Cossack & Russian
    Reel'd from the sabre-stroke,
    Shatter'd & sunder'd.
    Then they rode back, but not
    Not the six hundred.

    Cannon to right of them,
    Cannon to left of them,
    Cannon behind them
    Volley'd and thunder'd;
    Storm'd at with shot and shell,
    While horse & hero fell,
    They that had fought so well
    Came thro' the jaws of Death,
    Back from the mouth of Hell,
    All that was left of them,
    Left of six hundred.

    When can their glory fade?
    O the wild charge they made!
    All the world wonder'd.
    Honour the charge they made!
    Honour the Light Brigade,
    Noble six hundred!


    /threadjack

    Ok about that police station...

  8. #8
    Regular Member GONZO!!!'s Avatar
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    One of my personal favorites:


    When you get what you want in your struggle for self
    and the world makes you king for a day
    just go to a mirror and take a look at yourself
    and see what that man has to say

    for its not your mother or father or wife
    whose judgement upon you must pass
    but the man whose verdict counts most in your life
    is the man staring back from the glass

    Now you may think you're Jack Horner and chisel a plum
    and think you're a wonderful guy
    but the man in the glass says you're only a bum
    if you can't look him straight in the eye

    For he's the one to please, never mind all the rest
    for he's with you clear up to the end
    and you've passed your most dangerous and difficult test
    if the man in the glass is your friend

    so you can fool all the world in your struggle for self
    and even get pats on the back as you pass
    but your final reward will be heartache and tears
    if you've cheated the man in the glass.

  9. #9
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    Hijacked into a poem thread ? Ok love this forum it's kinda like my ex wife ya never know what's coming next . Thanks for the advice though I am not sure it's worth the trouble the first night concidering I am trying to get a sponsor do I can join !


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    Tmist:

    Pursuant to Indiana Law, You would be Fully within Your Rights to Openly Carry ANY Firearm of Your Choice in ANY Police Station ANYWHERE in Indiana, however; if You had a Handgun, then, You would also need a License to Carry a Handgun.

    Even if The Police Station were to Qualify as a Secure Government Building under 35-47-11.1-4(13), by Following ALL Provisions as are Applicable under that Code Section, The Police Station would STILL have to Allow Handguns to be brought inside The Building for Persons who have a Indiana License to Carry a Handgun.

    aadvark
    Last edited by aadvark; 04-09-2012 at 04:50 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogeater f6 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Wow, a real man does. I would add more, but I have miles to go before I sleep and miles to go before I sleep.
    Sounds like a biker saying. Love it!
    Actually, it was horseback, on a snowy winter night in Vermont.

    http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poems...-snowy-evening

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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    Tmist:

    Pursuant to Indiana Law, You would be Fully within Your Rights to Openly Carry ANY Firearm of Your Chocie in ANY Police Station ANYWHERE in Indiana, however; if You had a Handgun, then, You would also need a License to Carry a Handgun.

    Even if The Police Station were to Qualify as a Secure Government Building under 35-47-11.1-4(13), by Following ALL Provisions as are Applicable under that Exception, The Police Station would STILL have to Allow Handguns to be brought inside The Building for Persons who have a Indiana License to Carry a Handgun.

    aadvark
    Interesting.....veddy interesting. I live in WA state in a small town which happens to be the county seat. Very near the doors to my towns police station is a sign denying CCW holders to bring firearms into the station.

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    aardvark :

    Thanks for the heads up and just to clairify I do have a life time LTCH and have for a good long time . I just tried to stay away from police stations so it was unknown


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    noname762 and Tmist:

    noname762: Washington State ALLOWS Firearms in Police Stations, in other than The Restricted Access Areas of such Facility, as There are NO Laws against Carrying a Firearm in Unsecure Areas of a Police Station under Washington Revised Code 9.41.290 OR 9.41.300! There Additional are Exceptions under Washington State Law 9.41.300(8) AND 9.41.300(9)!

    Tmist: Indiana Law Allows Firearms in Police Stations as of July. 1, 2011, Pursuant to Senate Bill 292!

    aadvark
    Last edited by aadvark; 04-09-2012 at 04:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    noname762 and Tmist:

    noname762: Washington State ALLOWS Firearms in Police Stations, in other than The Restricted Access Areas of such Facility, as There are NO Laws against Carrying a Firearm in Unsecure Areas of a Police Station under Washington Revised Code 9.41.290 OR 9.41.300! There Additional are Exceptions under Washington State Law 9.41.300(8) AND 9.41.300(9)!

    Tmist: Indiana Law Allows Firearms in Police Stations as of July. 1, 2011, Pursuant to Senate Bill 292!

    aadvark
    Better be careful giving advice on the basis of Indiana law. Local governments/police departments may be permitted to prohibit firearms in/on their property.

    noname-better check with the Washington page for advice on your state and local laws and regulations. There's probably someone there who is more familiar with it than us hoosiers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    Tmist:

    Pursuant to Indiana Law, You would be Fully within Your Rights to Openly Carry ANY Firearm of Your Choice in ANY Police Station ANYWHERE in Indiana, however; if You had a Handgun, then, You would also need a License to Carry a Handgun.

    Even if The Police Station were to Qualify as a Secure Government Building under 35-47-11.1-4(13), by Following ALL Provisions as are Applicable under that Code Section, The Police Station would STILL have to Allow Handguns to be brought inside The Building for Persons who have a Indiana License to Carry a Handgun.

    aadvark
    Not necessarily, it could in fact be a felony to do so. Under the trafficking with a inmate law.
    IC 35-44-3-9
    Trafficking with an inmate or child
    Sec. 9. (a) As used in this section, "juvenile facility" means the following:
    (1) A secure facility (as defined in IC 31-9-2-114) in which a child is detained under IC 31 or used for a child awaiting adjudication or adjudicated under IC 31 as a child in need of services or a delinquent child.
    (2) A shelter care facility (as defined in IC 31-9-2-117) in which a child is detained under IC 31 or used for a child awaiting adjudication or adjudicated under IC 31 as a child in need of services or a delinquent child.
    (b) Except as provided in subsection (d), a person who, without the prior authorization of the person in charge of a penal facility or juvenile facility knowingly or intentionally:
    (1) delivers, or carries into the penal facility or juvenile facility

    with intent to deliver, an article to an inmate or child of the facility;
    (2) carries, or receives with intent to carry out of the penal facility or juvenile facility, an article from an inmate or child of the facility;
    (3) delivers, or carries to a worksite with the intent to deliver, alcoholic beverages to an inmate or child of a jail work crew or community work crew; or
    (4) possesses in or carries into a penal facility or a juvenile facility:
    (A) a controlled substance; or
    (B) a deadly weapon;
    commits trafficking with an inmate, a Class A misdemeanor.
    (c) If the person who committed the offense under subsection (b) is an employee of:
    (1) the department of correction; or
    (2) a penal facility;
    and the article is a cigarette or tobacco product (as defined in IC 6-7-2-5), the court shall impose a mandatory five thousand dollar ($5,000) fine under IC 35-50-3-2, in addition to any term of imprisonment imposed under IC 35-50-3-2.
    (d) The offense under subsection (b) is a Class C felony if the article is:
    (1) a controlled substance;
    (2) a deadly weapon; or
    (3) a cellular telephone or other wireless or cellular communications device.
    As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.4. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.67; Acts 1981, P.L.300, SEC.2; P.L.223-1996, SEC.1; P.L.183-1999, SEC.2; P.L.243-1999, SEC.2; P.L.30-2004, SEC.1; P.L.128-2009, SEC.2.

    See number 4 simply possessing a firearm in a secure facility is all that is needed, no need to prove intent. And for the legal definition of penal facility in IN here it is.
    IC 35-41-1-21
    "Penal facility"
    Sec. 21. "Penal facility" means state prison, correctional facility, county jail, penitentiary, house of correction, or any other facility for confinement of persons under sentence, or awaiting trial or sentence, for offenses. The term includes a correctional facility constructed under IC 4-13.5.

    Any police station that has a cell would fall under this. Heck any station that has a chair that they sit people in while being booked before being shipped to an actual jail could fall under this with the right (or wrong) prosecutor.

    There is a lawyer in IN who is very pro-gun who discussed this, his name is Guy Relford, he has almost 30 years of experience in the law and focuses on firearm related law.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timjoebillybob View Post
    Not necessarily, it could in fact be a felony to do so. Under the trafficking with a inmate law.
    IC 35-44-3-9
    Trafficking with an inmate or child
    Sec. 9. (a) As used in this section, "juvenile facility" means the following:
    (1) A secure facility (as defined in IC 31-9-2-114) in which a child is detained under IC 31 or used for a child awaiting adjudication or adjudicated under IC 31 as a child in need of services or a delinquent child.
    (2) A shelter care facility (as defined in IC 31-9-2-117) in which a child is detained under IC 31 or used for a child awaiting adjudication or adjudicated under IC 31 as a child in need of services or a delinquent child.
    (b) Except as provided in subsection (d), a person who, without the prior authorization of the person in charge of a penal facility or juvenile facility knowingly or intentionally:
    (1) delivers, or carries into the penal facility or juvenile facility

    with intent to deliver, an article to an inmate or child of the facility;
    (2) carries, or receives with intent to carry out of the penal facility or juvenile facility, an article from an inmate or child of the facility;
    (3) delivers, or carries to a worksite with the intent to deliver, alcoholic beverages to an inmate or child of a jail work crew or community work crew; or
    (4) possesses in or carries into a penal facility or a juvenile facility:
    (A) a controlled substance; or
    (B) a deadly weapon;
    commits trafficking with an inmate, a Class A misdemeanor.
    (c) If the person who committed the offense under subsection (b) is an employee of:
    (1) the department of correction; or
    (2) a penal facility;
    and the article is a cigarette or tobacco product (as defined in IC 6-7-2-5), the court shall impose a mandatory five thousand dollar ($5,000) fine under IC 35-50-3-2, in addition to any term of imprisonment imposed under IC 35-50-3-2.
    (d) The offense under subsection (b) is a Class C felony if the article is:
    (1) a controlled substance;
    (2) a deadly weapon; or
    (3) a cellular telephone or other wireless or cellular communications device.

    As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.4. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.67; Acts 1981, P.L.300, SEC.2; P.L.223-1996, SEC.1; P.L.183-1999, SEC.2; P.L.243-1999, SEC.2; P.L.30-2004, SEC.1; P.L.128-2009, SEC.2.

    See number 4 simply possessing a firearm in a secure facility is all that is needed, no need to prove intent. And for the legal definition of penal facility in IN here it is.
    IC 35-41-1-21
    "Penal facility"
    Sec. 21. "Penal facility" means state prison, correctional facility, county jail, penitentiary, house of correction, or any other facility for confinement of persons under sentence, or awaiting trial or sentence, for offenses. The term includes a correctional facility constructed under IC 4-13.5.

    Any police station that has a cell would fall under this. Heck any station that has a chair that they sit people in while being booked before being shipped to an actual jail could fall under this with the right (or wrong) prosecutor.

    There is a lawyer in IN who is very pro-gun who discussed this, his name is Guy Relford, he has almost 30 years of experience in the law and focuses on firearm related law.
    Hold on, if you carry a gun or a cell phone into a police station, you could be committing a class C felony?
    If you apply it to one, you have to apply it to all.
    Sorry, it just doesn't pass the giggle test.

    And yes, I spent about 8 weeks going to a police department once a week--even in the secured area a couple times--and they never once told us that carrying a cell phone was a felony...even when I talked on my cell phone in front of the Sgt and Lt. The only places they told us we couldn't carry were the county jail and the juvy facility

  19. #19
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timjoebillybob
    "Penal facility"
    Sec. 21. "Penal facility" means state prison, correctional facility, county jail, penitentiary, house of correction, or any other facility for confinement of persons under sentence, or awaiting trial or sentence, for offenses. The term includes a correctional facility constructed under IC 4-13.5.
    Any police station that has a cell would fall under this. Heck any station that has a chair that they sit people in while being booked before being shipped to an actual jail could fall under this with the right (or wrong) prosecutor.
    If a stupid, overzealous prosecutor wanted to risk his career & waste taxpayer money by charging & trying to convict someone of "carrying into a penal facility" for merely being in a police station with a holding cell...

    I don't see a similarity between a police station holding cell (or chair, for that matter) and a "state prison, correctional facility, county jail, penitentiary, house of correction, or any other facility for confinement of persons under sentence, or awaiting trial or sentence".
    Unless someone is caught after escaping custody, they're awaiting being charged, not "trial or sentence".

    *****

    As for the "manly poetry" meme... I'll just post links.
    Not exactly family fare, despite being from the Bible.
    Good for straight men & gay women.
    Song of Solomon 7:2-4
    Song of Solomon 7:6-8
    Proverbs 5:18-20
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post


    Most of us are men. We don't have favorite poems.
    You've obviously not read enough Kipling or Tennnyson =)
    "My good blade carves the casques of men,
    My tough lance thrusteth sure,
    My strength is as the strength of ten,
    Because my heart is pure.
    The shattering trumpet shrilleth high,
    The hard brands shiver on the steel,
    The splinter'd spear-shafts crack and fly,
    The horse and rider reel"

  21. #21
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    I AGREE with MKEgal!

    aadvark

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    Quote Originally Posted by cce1302 View Post
    Hold on, if you carry a gun or a cell phone into a police station, you could be committing a class C felony?
    If you apply it to one, you have to apply it to all.
    Sorry, it just doesn't pass the giggle test.

    And yes, I spent about 8 weeks going to a police department once a week--even in the secured area a couple times--and they never once told us that carrying a cell phone was a felony...even when I talked on my cell phone in front of the Sgt and Lt. The only places they told us we couldn't carry were the county jail and the juvy facility
    No you don't have to apply it to all, anything else except for firearms and controlled substances require them to show intent. Number 4 states carries or possesses with no mention of intent. So it is legal to have a cell phone in a jail, unless you intend to deliver it to a prisoner.

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    [QUOTE=MKEgal;1739704]If a stupid, overzealous prosecutor wanted to risk his career & waste taxpayer money by charging & trying to convict someone of "carrying into a penal facility" for merely being in a police station with a holding cell...

    I don't see a similarity between a police station holding cell (or chair, for that matter) and a "state prison, correctional facility, county jail, penitentiary, house of correction, or any other facility for confinement of persons under sentence, or awaiting trial or sentence".
    Unless someone is caught after escaping custody, they're awaiting being charged, not "trial or sentence".
    [/QUOTE.]

    Once they are charged, they are awaiting trial aren't they? At least until they bond out or are transferred. Or if they stop someone for speeding and it turns out they have a warrant. Some places it is standard for them to be taken to the local station where they are held until they can be picked up or transferred to the county jail.

    I'm not saying that it would happen, just saying that in the opinion of a well respected attorney in the gun community that it may be possible for it to.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timjoebillybob View Post
    No you don't have to apply it to all, anything else except for firearms and controlled substances require them to show intent. Number 4 states carries or possesses with no mention of intent. So it is legal to have a cell phone in a jail, unless you intend to deliver it to a prisoner.
    That's not the way the jails interpret it. In St Joe county, you have to go into the jail to apply for your LTCH. They don't let you past the front desk/metal detector with a cell phone, even when you're just going to the office where they take your fingerprints, not in the holding area.

    My wife goes to the juv. facility all the time due to her job. Cell phones are prohibited there, the same as guns.

    Perhaps your lawyer has a better explanation, because yours just isn't cutting it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cce1302 View Post
    That's not the way the jails interpret it. In St Joe county, you have to go into the jail to apply for your LTCH. They don't let you past the front desk/metal detector with a cell phone, even when you're just going to the office where they take your fingerprints, not in the holding area.
    as guns.

    Perhaps your lawyer has a better explanation, because yours just isn't cutting it.
    Local prohibitions of cell phones aren't quite the same as state law. Any jurisdiction can prohibit you from carrying into a jail a can of pop or any other item. Now if you happened to make it past the metal detector with a cell phone, and didn't intend to pass it to an inmate, you would be innocent under state law. Although perhaps guilty under a local ordinance, which would be a fine. Same as if a local ordinance prohibited you carrying into a jail a can of pop.

    I don't agree with the law, I'm just stating what I've been told. If you feel like being a test case, you are more than welcome to be one. I on the other hand do not have the thousands of dollars to spend, nor the willingness to spend several years in prison.

    If you have both, you are more than welcome to become a test case. I have neither. And I'm guessing most of the people reading this thread don't either.
    Last edited by Timjoebillybob; 04-21-2012 at 02:31 AM.

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