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Thread: My friend call open carrying rude

  1. #1
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    My friend call open carrying rude

    One of my best friends I met when we where in 2nd grade and we are still hanging out and very good friends. In high school he went through a self discovery phase and turned liberal. Despite that unfortunate turn of events we where able to stay good friends we just had to except early on we where not going to see eye to eye on everything.

    My friend believes strongly in having the right to defend your self but only believes in knifes for personal defense. He believes people should be able to stop the threat even if that means killings someone but only with the use of knives he is completely anti gun in every possible way.

    I picked him up the other day while open carrying and I could tell he immediately became uncomfortable. After driving for a few minute I politely asked him what it was about guns that make him so uncomfortable, his response "everything". He went on a anti 2nd amendment rant about how evil and unnecessary they are and how all anyone truly needs is a knife, but he added at the very end "but I'm respect you for standing up for what you believe in".

    I asked him again what about open carrying made him uncomfortable. He told me they offended him and regardless of what the law says he should not have to be forced to look at something that offends him, he called it " harassment. I asked him if me carrying in front of him offended him and he responded very quickly with "yes". He told me if we can't get rid of the 2nd amendment we should at least be forced by law to conceal them.

    We spoke for a while going back and forth never reaching a true understanding. He does accept it as part of our friendship even if he does not agree with it. Just wondering if anyone ells has had a similar experience
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    I asked him again what about open carrying made him uncomfortable. He told me they offended him and regardless of what the law says he should not have to be forced to look at something that offends him, he called it " harassment. I asked him if me carrying in front of him offended him and he responded very quickly with "yes". He told me if we can't get rid of the 2nd amendment we should at least be forced by law to conceal them.
    I understand (not agree, but understand) most of what your friend says, however I always take exception with the issue of 'offense'. People that get offended over things that other people do and say ALWAYS, without exception, place the blame on the party that has "committed" the offense. Choosing to "be" offended is a personal issue. Being offended is not a right, nor is it a valid reason to make another people change their habits or promote laws to restrict people's behaviors. Your friend wants to restrict freedoms so he is more 'comfortable' and not offended. If he does not see the logic in that, he does not sound like someone that values freedom.

    I have to give you kudos, that sounds like a challenging friendship. I place value in liberty and have a difficult time understanding people that feel that their individual wants and feelings are more important than this basic concept.

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    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Wow, not to be rude here but your friend is in the "everybody gets a participation tophy" group.

    He has no right not to be offended in point of fact the bill of rights protects our right to be offensive without being prosecuted or persecuted for it. i personally destest the views of many legally protected groups like PETA, the KKK, SEIU, communists, maxist socialists, the nation of islam, the westboro baptist church just to name a few.


    He also is not being "forced" to look at anything, he can always look the other way. i do not care to see really fat people in revieling clothing, but hey they can wear what they want out in public, i just have to look someplace else.

    Other than agreeing to disagree, there really isn't much you can do. i have had it out with people i know about a range of issues and in some cases you hit a wall.

    being a history buff when i point out historical events to make my points and the other person literally denies that the know factual events occured. you really cannot get anywhere.


    For your case if he is still willing to be your friend, do what you do and let him do what he does. it is a free country afterall.
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    As was posted earlier your friend is CHOOSING to be offended and projecting his decision onto you.
    IF you are carrying around him to disturb him you need to grow up. If your carry is for personal defense then carry on !
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    As was posted earlier your friend is CHOOSING to be offended and projecting his decision onto you.
    IF you are carrying around him to disturb him you need to grow up. If your carry is for personal defense then carry on !
    Oh course I would never carry just to purposely annoy anyone. I have to give him credit as much as I know it does bother him he does make a great effort to keep is moth shut and his opinions to himself when he is around me, not that I have ever discouraged a respectful conversation. He has other habits I am not in favor of (cigarettes) that I do not go into with him. We have managed to stay good friends although as we grew up we kind of turned into the odd couple. Through trial and error we have just learned there are a few things we are not going to agree on. It was nice having the conversation it had been probably a few years since we openly discussed it and it was nice to clear the air again. He has also never once asked me to leave my gun in my car when I go over to his place which I know is difficult for him. I really do have to give him credit for respecting my beliefs even if he does not agree with them
    Last edited by fire suppressor; 04-05-2012 at 08:38 AM.
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    He has other habits I am not in favor of (cigarettes) that I do not go into with him. . . . . He has also never once asked me to leave my gun in my car when I go over to his place which I know is difficult for him.
    Now see, this is kinda my point. Smoking is considered 'offensive' by many and it sounds like if you choose, you could allow it to offend you. On the other hand you respect his decisions enough to keep it to yourself, seems to me either you respect his decisions and it's not reciprocated. . . . . . or you're just being walked on and allowing someone to step on your beliefs.

    I've been where you're at, not these specific issues, religion sparks similar traits in people, and I decided that those kinds of people weren't really giving respect but just sort of tolerating me until I 'changed my ways'. Maybe I'm just getting old and stubborn, but I don't accept that behavior anymore.

    Just my 2¢, I'll keep quiet now.

    Last edited by bogidu; 04-05-2012 at 08:47 AM.

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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    My friend believes strongly in having the right to defend your self but only believes in knifes for personal defense. He believes people should be able to stop the threat even if that means killings someone but only with the use of knives...
    Have you ever discussed with your friend the critical practical problems with only having a knife for self-defense, namely that in order to defend yourself you have to let your assailant get within arm's reach? And that effective knife fighting is a skill that is harder to learn than simply shooting straight (at least if you're interested in making more than just superficial cuts)?

    Or does he perhaps see those as a features?

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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hardin View Post
    Have you ever discussed with your friend the critical practical problems with only having a knife for self-defense, namely that in order to defend yourself you have to let your assailant get within arm's reach? And that effective knife fighting is a skill that is harder to learn than simply shooting straight (at least if you're interested in making more than just superficial cuts)?

    Or does he perhaps see those as a features?
    I wonder if it's a nostalgia thing...thinking back to sword fighting or samurais or something. Where two were supposedly on an equal playing field and fought it out. Of course, that thought completely ignores what happens to those that aren't strong, fast, and skilled. They have to be dependent on those that do have those traits...or be at their mercy.

    The knives are ok, but guns aren't is an interesting philosophy. For me, at least for close quarters, knives scare me A LOT more than guns do. Just have your friend watch the video from down in Columbia where one crazy guy proceeds to stab like 5 or so cops (that had him completely surrounded!).

    It seems like anti's are all over the place in their theories of what's ok...some say ONLY open carry is ok, others don't want the reminder that guns are still needed so conceal it, and others think that we should eliminate them all (obviously ignoring the fact that you can't uninvent something so simple).
    Last edited by skiingislife725; 04-05-2012 at 11:10 AM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Not to be overly polite about it but, .... your friend is an idiot.

    I support anyone's right to treat their body the way they wish, but even acknowledging that, everyone also knows there are no demonstrable benefits to smoking. If he continues to do so, the only thing it proves is that he's perfectly capable of ignoring facts and making poor decisions.

    Speaking of poor decisions; would I be correct that your friend carries his knife concealed? I doubt such a knife would be more than about 5" long, so he's at an automatic disadvantage when his opponent carries a 8", 10" or even foot-long knife. Does he feel that everyone should also be limited in how large a knife they carry? Since all he has is a knife, how's he going to counter an opponent with a sword?

    Everyone else has already mentioned the problems of skill and having to be within arms' reach, I won't belabor those.

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    Sounds like a Darwin candidate to me, he could one day find that he has brought a knife to a gun fight or a beat down by several hostile folks. If he does not have a lot of training with knives he may find himself eating said knife if he runs into the wrong person. I at one time had a collection of said knives.

    Keep the friendship and keep talking to him as the subject comes up. I will give him credit for not asking you to disarm at his home. Maybe one day he will come around.
    Last edited by Jeff Hayes; 04-05-2012 at 11:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    He told me they offended him and regardless of what the law says he should not have to be forced to look at something that offends him, he called it " harassment.

    Yeah I can say the same about fat people in small clothing. But it is what it is, and you just have to deal with it.
    If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege.
    --- Arkansas Supreme Court, Wilson v. State (1878)

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I'm being harassed, I'm being harassed!!!

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    Regular Member waterfowl woody's Avatar
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    tell him that his knife offends you, everything about it offends you. When he is defending his rights to have and use his knife tell him he is a hypocrite.

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    Kudos to you for maintaining this friendship in spite of some difficult differences. I don't think I would carry in his home, knowing how uncomfortable is makes him; that is a tad rude, even if he allows it.

    Knives scare me also; I would rather face someone who has a gun than someone with a knife. No way do I want an attacker close enough to me to use a knife; my gun is there to keep some distance from an assailant. I do not want to be defending myself from arm's length. I have no skill with a knife, I do with my gun.

    It sounds to me that he has been brain washed by the antis. People die from knife wounds same as from gunshot wounds, dead is dead and it doesn't matter how you get that way!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    Wow, not to be rude here but your friend is in the "everybody gets a participation tophy" group.

    i do not care to see really fat people in revieling clothing, but hey they can wear what they want out in public, i just have to look someplace else.
    Some times you cant! It like a train wreck, you gotta look!

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hardin View Post
    Have you ever discussed with your friend the critical practical problems with only having a knife for self-defense, namely that in order to defend yourself you have to let your assailant get within arm's reach? And that effective knife fighting is a skill that is harder to learn than simply shooting straight (at least if you're interested in making more than just superficial cuts)?

    Or does he perhaps see those as a features?

    This.

    I'd like to hear how the OP's friend expects someone who's older or disabled (who is more likely to be a victim) is supposed to fight off some punk in the prime of health with just a knife.

    With only a little coaching, my mother was able to easily put shots on target with a little .22 revolver. There's no way she could fight someone off at knife distance due to health problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    Oh course I would never carry just to purposely annoy anyone. I have to give him credit as much as I know it does bother him he does make a great effort to keep is moth shut and his opinions to himself when he is around me, not that I have ever discouraged a respectful conversation. He has other habits I am not in favor of (cigarettes) that I do not go into with him. We have managed to stay good friends although as we grew up we kind of turned into the odd couple. Through trial and error we have just learned there are a few things we are not going to agree on. It was nice having the conversation it had been probably a few years since we openly discussed it and it was nice to clear the air again. He has also never once asked me to leave my gun in my car when I go over to his place which I know is difficult for him. I really do have to give him credit for respecting my beliefs even if he does not agree with them
    Man, I'm really impressed by your friendship. You guys care about each other a great deal.

    It'd be interesting to get his side directly in this forum. Can you invite him to this forum/thread? Would that make sense?


    He could give and get some input about the issues involved. Hopefully, not too many here would call him a "hypocrite" or an "idiot" to his face but would instead discuss the pros and cons of his (and our) positions.

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiingislife725 View Post
    (obviously ignoring the fact that you can't uninvent something so simple).
    Wheels scare me. Let's uninvent them. Lol
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post

    It sounds to me that he has been brain washed by the antis. People die from knife wounds same as from gunshot wounds, dead is dead and it doesn't matter how you get that way!
    Now this is wisdom! Too logical for most anti's though.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    I get this kind of attitude from my dad, although he is not anti gun, just anti OC. His favorite thing to say to me is, "Carrying a gun is like being Gay, nobody cares if you have one they just don't want to see it." Although his wife who is on the fence about guns has no problem with me OCing at their house or around her. He has also asked me multiple times to not OC at his work (fire department) which I have told him, "Sorry, I will carry every where I am legally allowed to and that includes the fire station."

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    Regular Member EtdBob's Avatar
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    Yesterday I was working in a pump house when a 1” waterline suddenly blew.
    135 psi, open 1 inch pipe tapped right off an 8 inch main line aimed at the ceiling. Instant Flood.
    Everyone split out the door except me, because I was busy slapping electrical disconnects off then looking for a valve to shut the durn water off!
    Thankfully I was wearing a wool jacket buttoned up and a cowboy hat at the time. Only my jeans got soaked to the skin, the rest of me was mostly dry.

    Afterwards we all stood around dripping to one degree or the other and joked about it. I took off my wet wool jacket…Exposing my Glock!
    I wasn’t gonna keep a wet jacket on just to conceal my gun.
    This was on Colville tribal lands. Anyone know what the rules governing open carry on tribal lands are???

    Anyway, everyone noticed I had a gun on.
    Much discussion followed.
    Three out of four didn’t care, but the fourth felt that openly carrying was in some way practically an initiation of force against him.
    I have gotten that response quite a bit over the years. It seems that many folk are just not comfortable with “any old Joe” having a gun at his side, that said Joe could draw and kill ‘em at the drop of a hat should they wish to do so or lose their temper. A gun on my hip makes me feel safer, but makes many others feel less safe. It may be a silly response, but never the less it is a very real one.

    Heh, we went on to argue politics for hours, greatly slowing down the work we were doing.
    At one point the uncomfortable-with-guns-fella was standing there red faced and yelling at me. One of the other fellas laughing, said “ Draw your gun and shoot him Bob! Shoot him! Shoot him!”
    It was actually pretty funny at the time. For us anyway, not for the gun hater.

  22. #22
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    A little different take on this type of attitude as I find often that someone is willing to seek self defense in some form as size, strength, muscle builders, those who train in knife technique's or martial arts of different forms voice their opposition to firearms, since it does not support their superiority in defense.
    And when all is said and done it is a matter of defending oneself or family not the tool that is used.

    God made man but Smith and Wesson, or Colt man all men equal.
    Last edited by BigDave; 04-05-2012 at 05:00 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EtdBob View Post
    Yesterday I was working in a pump house when a 1” waterline suddenly blew.
    135 psi, open 1 inch pipe tapped right off an 8 inch main line aimed at the ceiling. Instant Flood.
    Everyone split out the door except me, because I was busy slapping electrical disconnects off then looking for a valve to shut the durn water off!
    Thankfully I was wearing a wool jacket buttoned up and a cowboy hat at the time. Only my jeans got soaked to the skin, the rest of me was mostly dry.

    Afterwards we all stood around dripping to one degree or the other and joked about it. I took off my wet wool jacket…Exposing my Glock!
    I wasn’t gonna keep a wet jacket on just to conceal my gun.
    This was on Colville tribal lands. Anyone know what the rules governing open carry on tribal lands are???

    Anyway, everyone noticed I had a gun on.
    Much discussion followed.
    Three out of four didn’t care, but the fourth felt that openly carrying was in some way practically an initiation of force against him.
    I have gotten that response quite a bit over the years. It seems that many folk are just not comfortable with “any old Joe” having a gun at his side, that said Joe could draw and kill ‘em at the drop of a hat should they wish to do so or lose their temper. A gun on my hip makes me feel safer, but makes many others feel less safe. It may be a silly response, but never the less it is a very real one.

    Heh, we went on to argue politics for hours, greatly slowing down the work we were doing.
    At one point the uncomfortable-with-guns-fella was standing there red faced and yelling at me. One of the other fellas laughing, said “ Draw your gun and shoot him Bob! Shoot him! Shoot him!”
    It was actually pretty funny at the time. For us anyway, not for the gun hater.
    If all the anti-gunner's who thought that 'we' would shoot them when we lost our temper were correct, there would be NO anti-gunners.
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  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Three out of four didn’t care, but the fourth felt that openly carrying was in some way practically an initiation of force against him.
    I have gotten that response quite a bit over the years. It seems that many folk are just not comfortable with “any old Joe” having a gun at his side, that said Joe could draw and kill ‘em at the drop of a hat should they wish to do so or lose their temper. A gun on my hip makes me feel safer, but makes many others feel less safe. It may be a silly response, but never the less it is a very real one.
    And obviously people who carry concealed could never just draw and kill them at the drop of a hat should they wish to do so or lose their temper? And what about cops - are they somehow incapable of doing those things?

    I am empatetic regarding the fact that these people are sorry and that they have irrational fears that they have not yet resolved with reality. But that is their problem, and I get weary of them trying to make it my problem instead. Close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears, chant "La, la, la...." and think about your happy place. I'll go scan for threats - and by the way folks like that are definately listed as threats to my safety as well as my sanity.

    stay safe.
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  25. #25
    Regular Member Wolfebane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    In high school he went through a self discovery phase and turned liberal.
    You mean that he confirmed that he was liberal. Because the default position of all children is that of liberal:

    "I want it all.

    I want it now.

    And I want YOU to pay for it."
    Last edited by Wolfebane; 04-05-2012 at 10:35 PM.

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