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Fighting Back in WA.

psbart

Regular Member
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
44
Location
Bremerton, WA
a break-in is different. The perp is in my house uninvited, I am not going to wait to find out their intentions. But if I were to arrive home just in time to see someone leaving with my stuff, meh, not going to sweat it. yes, I earned it, yes, they are stealing, but for me, my firearm is to protect lives, not possessions. I was raised by a buddhist mother. Lives are important to me. I can always make more money to buy replacement things, I cannot replace the life of a loved one. just my opinion. you are entitled to yours.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
No all home break-ins, where the owners are home, are for the purpose of harming the home owner. If the unfortunate were to happen and your are home during a break-in, do not employ physical force unless they, the perps, engage in behavior that goes beyond stealing your stuff. Remember, it's just stuff.

How is the homeowner supposed to know if they are going to be harmed or not? Should they ask first? Perhaps the homeowner should help the burglar load the car with his stuff?

Unless the burglar immediately and unequivocally retreats the homeowner in Washington will have a righteous shoot.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
a break-in is different. The perp is in my house uninvited, I am not going to wait to find out their intentions. But if I were to arrive home just in time to see someone leaving with my stuff, meh, not going to sweat it. yes, I earned it, yes, they are stealing, but for me, my firearm is to protect lives, not possessions. I was raised by a buddhist mother. Lives are important to me. I can always make more money to buy replacement things, I cannot replace the life of a loved one. just my opinion. you are entitled to yours.
Granted....how about this. "I ain't here to hurt nobody, I didn't know nobody was home. I'm just gunna leave. No need for shooting anybody."
 

Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
No all home break-ins, where the owners are home, are for the purpose of harming the home owner. If the unfortunate were to happen and your are home during a break-in, do not employ physical force unless they, the perps, engage in behavior that goes beyond stealing your stuff. Remember, it's just stuff.

RCW 9A.52.025
Residential burglary.

(1) A person is guilty of residential burglary if, with intent to commit a crime against a person or property therein, the person enters or remains unlawfully in a dwelling other than a vehicle.

(2) Residential burglary is a class B felony. In establishing sentencing guidelines and disposition standards, residential burglary is to be considered a more serious offense than second degree burglary.


[2011 1st sp.s. c 40 § 38; 1989 2nd ex.s. c 1 § 1; 1989 c 412 § 1.]

Notes:
Application -- Recalculation of community custody terms -- 2011 1st sp.s. c 40: See note following RCW 9.94A.501.
Effective date -- 1989 2nd ex.s. c 1: "This act shall take effect July 1, 1990." [1989 2nd ex.s. c 1 § 4; 1989 c 412 § 4.]

RCW 9A.16.050
Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.

A man fleeing is not going to meet the criteria above, a man IN your home meets the above criteria. Losing 3 months of your effort is NOT the same as a man losing the REST of his life. Would I prefer that he find an honest way to make a living, yes, will I defend my family, YES.
 

Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Granted....how about this. "I ain't here to hurt nobody, I didn't know nobody was home. I'm just gunna leave. No need for shooting anybody."

If he manages to get that out between target identification and pulling the trigger, I suppose that would be a judgement call, but since neither my wife nor I are going to do anything as stupid as talk to a burglar, I doubt it would come up.
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
Granted....how about this. "I ain't here to hurt nobody, I didn't know nobody was home. I'm just gunna leave. No need for shooting anybody."

How about the home invader wouldn't have time to say anything? If he does not want to be shot he can instantly faceplant on the floor spread eagled. From that position he can start praying for mercy...and might even obtain some mercy.

As long as they are upright and facing me, IMHO they are a threat to my family and myself.
 

LkWd_Don

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
572
Location
Dolan Springs, AZ
OC for ME said:
Granted....how about this. "I ain't here to hurt nobody, I didn't know nobody was home. I'm just gunna leave. No need for shooting anybody."

If he manages to get that out between target identification and pulling the trigger, I suppose that would be a judgement call, but since neither my wife nor I are going to do anything as stupid as talk to a burglar, I doubt it would come up.

How about the home invader wouldn't have time to say anything? If he does not want to be shot he can instantly faceplant on the floor spread eagled. From that position he can start praying for mercy...and might even obtain some mercy.

As long as they are upright and facing me, IMHO they are a threat to my family and myself.

The most I might be getting out verbally is "Freeze! Down on the ground" If he moves in anyway other than to faceplant.. I will take that as being an aggressive act.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Actually it was a Mosin-Nagant, 7.62x54. Don't imagine the perp had much of a head left. Pity the good guy ended up going to jail over it. :cuss:

The jury probably thought they had to follow the strict jury guidelines.

Shooting at a fleeing man is NOT the act of a "good" man, He killed someone over "stuff", my firearm is to defend my life or my families life. Firearms are tools, you are responsible for the use of it.

I won't say whether the shooter in that case is a good man or not. But if I was on the jury I wouldn't convict anyone protecting any of their property. Even though I more than likely would never shoot at a fleeing perpetrator.
 

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
Neighbor: 'I grabbed the shovel and I let him have it'

It is good to see in this incident, Yakima Police Department made a very positive comment for Citizens Rights.

"It's not uncommon, lets put it that way," says Yakima Police Lieutenant, Mike Merryman. "We get a call where witnesses or a victim is holding someone that just committed a crime."

Common -- but is it legal?

"At that point it turns into self defense," says Merryman. "In this case, they used a shovel."

While Merryman says no piece of property is worth your safety, he says getting involved is ultimately a personal choice.

"It's not something we say don't ever do," says Merryman. "That's the victim's right to protect his or her property."


http://www.kimatv.com/home/video/Ne...-let-him-have-it-146918055.html?tab=video&c=y
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
I look at theft of property in terms of how much time I spent working to afford the property. For example, if I make $8/hr, and bought an $800 TV, the thief who steals it is taking not only my property, but 100 hours, or over two workweeks, of my life. Two weeks of my respectable life, in which I could have been doing any number of other things. If some scumbag wants to try to steal property that I spent hours of my life working for, I don't feel bad if he has to pay for it with his own.

Of course, current law doesn't agree, but laws don't make right.

COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Personal attack
 
Last edited:

Metalhead47

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,800
Location
South Whidbey, Washington, USA
I look at theft of property in terms of how much time I spent working to afford the property. For example, if I make $8/hr, and bought an $800 TV, the thief who steals it is taking not only my property, but 100 hours, or over two workweeks, of my life. Two weeks of my respectable life, in which I could have been doing any number of other things. If some scumbag wants to try to steal property that I spent hours of my life working for, I don't feel bad if he has to pay for it with his own.

Of course, current law doesn't agree, but laws don't make right.

EDIT: Interesting to see Beretta posting in this thread, as she proudly believes she is entitled to the property of others. However, being a coward, she prefers to outsource her criminal misdeeds to government employees.

This.

'cept the part about beretta. :p


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Levi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Messages
188
Location
Tacoma
The typical trend of criminal behavior is that an individual gets more brazen and aggressive with every crime. I personally am not going to take the gamble that the guy completely violating my private life isn't at the point where he'll commit acts of violence against me or those I love. Also, if you take a shot, you may be saving the next victim.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
If he manages to get that out between target identification and pulling the trigger, I suppose that would be a judgement call, but since neither my wife nor I are going to do anything as stupid as talk to a burglar, I doubt it would come up.
You and your wife are a shoot first, in the home, talk later bunch, OK. But, you placed life above stuff, or at least you stated that. You even use 'judgement call' in this post. If he does get that short blurb out and you shoot anyway, regardless of location, you contradict your position, OK.

Life and/or property is the judgement call of the homeowner, not folks typing madly on computer keyboards. If the action falls within the confines of the law or is a defense against the law when violated then who are we to say one way or the other. What we may or may not do in similar circumstances is completely irrelevant.

Believe it or not, in my view, LE takes a fairly common sense approach when it comes to the discharge of firearms where self-defense or defense of property is concerned, when you are on your own property. I've been told on more than one occasion, by LEOs, that LE has little sympathy for home invaders/burglars, especially when ya got kids in the house. I as the home owner have to do what I have to do to protect life AND property....according to the LEOs I know.

RSMo 563.041 Use of physical force in defense of property
 

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
You and your wife are a shoot first, in the home, talk later bunch, OK. But, you placed life above stuff, or at least you stated that. You even use 'judgement call' in this post. If he does get that short blurb out and you shoot anyway, regardless of location, you contradict your position, OK.

Life and/or property is the judgement call of the homeowner, not folks typing madly on computer keyboards. If the action falls within the confines of the law or is a defense against the law when violated then who are we to say one way or the other. What we may or may not do in similar circumstances is completely irrelevant.

Believe it or not, in my view, LE takes a fairly common sense approach when it comes to the discharge of firearms where self-defense or defense of property is concerned, when you are on your own property. I've been told on more than one occasion, by LEOs, that LE has little sympathy for home invaders/burglars, especially when ya got kids in the house. I as the home owner have to do what I have to do to protect life AND property....according to the LEOs I know.

RSMo 563.041 Use of physical force in defense of property

While I am mostly in agreement with you on this issue, though my choice is a little narrower in concept, if I or another in my presence and there is a life threatening encounter I will likely employ means necessary to protect them or me. If a felony is being committed upon me and mine, then again I will use what force is necessary.
Necessary Force in Washington State can be from little as stepping in front of someone to push of the hand to use of deadly force depending upon what a reasonable prudent know what you knew at the time, would have done the same.

The main issue I have with your post is that you are quoting Missouri Law in a Washington State Forum on a Washington State Topic and using it to support your position that really has no bearing in how Washington State applies their laws.

Washington State Law on this issue;
RCW 9A.16.010 Definitions.
In this chapter, unless a different meaning is plainly required:
(1) "Necessary" means that no reasonably effective alternative to the use of force appeared to exist and that the amount of force used was reasonable to effect the lawful purpose intended.
(2) "Deadly force" means the intentional application of force through the use of firearms or any other means reasonably likely to cause death or serious physical injury.
[1986 c 209 § 1; 1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.16.010.]


RCW 9A.16.020 Use of force — When lawful.
The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:
(1) Whenever necessarily used by a public officer in the performance of a legal duty, or a person assisting the officer and acting under the officer's direction;
(2) Whenever necessarily used by a person arresting one who has committed a felony and delivering him or her to a public officer competent to receive him or her into custody;
(3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;
(4) Whenever reasonably used by a person to detain someone who enters or remains unlawfully in a building or on real property lawfully in the possession of such person, so long as such detention is reasonable in duration and manner to investigate the reason for the detained person's presence on the premises, and so long as the premises in question did not reasonably appear to be intended to be open to members of the public;
(5) Whenever used by a carrier of passengers or the carrier's authorized agent or servant, or other person assisting them at their request in expelling from a carriage, railway car, vessel, or other vehicle, a passenger who refuses to obey a lawful and reasonable regulation prescribed for the conduct of passengers, if such vehicle has first been stopped and the force used is not more than is necessary to expel the offender with reasonable regard to the offender's personal safety;
(6) Whenever used by any person to prevent a mentally ill, mentally incompetent, or mentally disabled person from committing an act dangerous to any person, or in enforcing necessary restraint for the protection or restoration to health of the person, during such period only as is necessary to obtain legal authority for the restraint or custody of the person.
[1986 c 149 § 2; 1979 ex.s. c 244 § 7; 1977 ex.s. c 80 § 13; 1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.16.020.]
Notes:
Effective date -- 1979 ex.s. c 244: See RCW 9A.44.902.
Purpose -- Intent -- Severability -- 1977 ex.s. c 80: See notes following RCW 4.16.190.

RCW 9A.16.050 Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.
Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:
(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or
(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.
[2011 c 336 § 354; 1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.16.050.]
 

LkWd_Don

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
572
Location
Dolan Springs, AZ
Double burglary in Renton

Here is a story from today..
Man gets home late last night to find his house has been broken into.. takes him a long while to get to sleep.. just to be woke up again by what is thought to be the same burglar hitting his home again.. He shot.. but suspect ran.. According to the televised news report.. the police say, no bullet found anywhere in the home.. so hospitals have been alerted.
http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-renton-homeowner-fires-shots-at-burglar-20120411,0,6246662.story
 
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