CERT Class Open Carry

usmcmustang · Apr 12, 2012

ManInBlack said:
I would forward this to the Attorney General. They are basically saying they are going to enforce laws that don't exist.

Yes... this statement: "Whether concealed or not, we enforce this NRS to include all persons entering a police facility wearing a firearm" is a real duesy. And again, they will "enforce" whatever it is they want to "enforce," whether it's law or not. After all, they ARE the POLICE don't ya know. As for the AG, well... let's just say that the Clark County Sheriff has more "influence" than does the AG and I'm quite sure the AG already has the "low down" on what's going on here and has condoned it... either officially or tacitly. But... I'm sure there WILL be challenges to the above statement by at least a few people I'm familiar with who have been "in this fight" for a while now.

DVC · Apr 12, 2012

It always amuses me when a government agency which is supposed to enforce the law refuses to OBEY the law.

If THEY disrespect the law, how can they expect US to respect the law -- or them . . ?

My grandfather was an LAPD cop. He was STRONGLY prejudiced against Japanese and blacks. He was also known for the polite and professional manner in which he treated blacks, Japanese and Japanese Americans when he encountered them on the job. Once, when asked by another cop -- my dad -- to reconcile his comments with his actions, he responded "Because that's the job. I don't enforce my law, I enforce THE law, and the law says this is how these people are to be treated." I was maybe 5 years old when I saw this, and have never forgotten. My dad was known for the same way of doing his work.

Too bad cops like these are a vanishing breed.

OC-moto450r · Apr 12, 2012

ManInBlack · Apr 12, 2012

OC-moto450r said:
I agree, but the the NRS says "any building" and only that you have to be warned. Without case law, the overlords will continue to see the NRS just like the LVMPD PIO, the NVHP officer and the NYE County Sheriff........

The District Attorney here in Pahrump seems to believe they are right also.

This sounds like an organized criminal conspiracy to me...RICO!!!

And some soft-headed individuals still think government employees serve the people. LOL

Yard Sale · Apr 12, 2012

usmcmustang said:
It comes DIRECTLY from the LVMPD PIO and is fresh off the presses

That right there is Plaintiff's Exhibit A of the city's policy and practice of depriving individuals of their rights. Save it!

When they say they "enforce" it, I'll bet they don't mean they get an arrest warrant or make an arrest. I'll bet you a cup of coffee they cite NRS 202 when they commit felony coercion and demand the carrier leave the building.

loic · Apr 12, 2012

I took that class over a year ago, good class but i wished it was more in depth.
Funny that Page react like this, my understanding was that her husband as a bunch of gun and also reload his ammo.

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Merlin · Apr 12, 2012

OC-moto450r said:
Sorry for the WALL of text.
OP I will remove this post if you do not want it in your thread.

This stuff is exactly within the scope of my post. Exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping for.
I am watching this thread closely with fascination. The whole 'hot off the presses" bit is scary/frustrating stuff, because it it throwing down the gauntlet telling us that until we are ready to go to jail for it, back off. We may/will win, but we have to be willing to go to jail. In spirit, I am, but in practical life, I have kids that need tucking in, and bills to pay. And they know that. Dicks (not all of them, just the ones that are). Grrrr.

Merlin · Apr 12, 2012

loic said:
I took that class over a year ago, good class but i wished it was more in depth.
Funny that Page react like this, my understanding was that her husband as a bunch of gun and also reload his ammo.

I don't necessarily think her heart was in it, but that she was doing what was expected by Sgt. Lake. That's why I didn't call her out so much. Her appeal of safety concerns during the exercises was not entirely lost on me. I DO recognize the consideration there, as long as it is understood that it is up to my discretion as to whether I would like to not be in possession of my SDI (Self-Defense Implement).

usmcmustang · Apr 12, 2012

Merlin said:
... Dicks (not all of them, just the ones that are). Grrrr.

Ya gotta wonder... this is coming from on-high... in other words, the most on-high DICK is calling the shots... not the patrolman. They are just being lead by DICK(s) and ultimately they become one.

usmcmustang · Apr 12, 2012

Yard Sale said:
That right there is Plaintiff's Exhibit A of the city's policy and practice of depriving individuals of their rights. Save it!

When they say they "enforce" it, I'll bet they don't mean they get an arrest warrant or make an arrest. I'll bet you a cup of coffee they cite NRS 202 when they commit felony coercion and demand the carrier leave the building.

And I'll bet your polka-dot boxers that if they "demand" that you leave and you refuse or otherwise disregard their demand that they will "cite or arrest" you for trespass or some other BS charge (perhaps NRS 203.119 Commission of act in public building or area interfering with peaceful conduct of activities.) They could care less if they "commit felony coercion." As a matter of fact, I'm sure they honestly don't believe they are capable of committing felony coercion... after all, THEY ARE THE POLICE, don't ya know?

Anyway, how many of "us" are at a point in our life/existence that we'd be willing to "test" these fine gentlemen and ladies to the point of either staying in the building or being cited or arrested... and with arrest, jail?

Merlin · Apr 12, 2012

usmcmustang said:
Ya gotta wonder... this is coming from on-high... in other words, the most on-high DICK is calling the shots... not the patrolman. They are just being lead by DICK(s) and ultimately they become one.

Exactly. This is why in another thread I state that I am amenable to contacts, as long as it is positive. If it gives me a chance to educate a cop, or cause them to question what they have been told by the DICKHEAD (I mean head DICK), then that contact was worth it.

Every time I have a positive contact, I say a little thank you to Tim F. for getting hassled on the strip. Yes, at street level, I can see the difference.

The Big Guy · Apr 12, 2012

usmcmustang said:
Okay... I'm gonna post this here because it's on-point with respect to OCing in public buildings... in this particular case a "police facility." It comes DIRECTLY from the LVMPD PIO and is fresh off the presses... so, without further ado....

NRS 202.3673 does indeed prohibit anyone except law enforcement personnel from wearing/carrying a concealed firearm into a police facility. Whether concealed or not, we enforce this NRS to include all persons entering a police facility wearing a firearm. It is our position that we are following the spirit of NRS 202.3673 by asserting our right to maintain a safe work environment for both our employees and visitors. Signage to this effect is located here, and at most government buildings throughout Clark County. Should an armed citizen disregard our request to leave the premises, they may be cited or arrested for trespassing. Violation of this law is a misdemeanor.

So, I guess a citizen openly carrying a firearm on his or her person can stand by to be cited or arrested for trespassing (on public property? - can one trespass on PUBLIC property?) if requested to leave such public property but refuses or otherwise disregards a request to do so.

Can you send me the entire email/letter with the contact info for the MPDPIO? Also the original note to them from you.

TBG

usmcmustang · Apr 12, 2012

The Big Guy said:
Can you send me the entire email/letter with the contact info for the MPDPIO? Also the original note to them from you.

TBG

Actually TBG, this communication from the LVMPD PIO was directed to TigerLily. She open carried into their records depository building to retrieve a police record on an acquaintance of hers a number of weeks ago. She was unable to get the record and was "escorted" out of the building. In a subsequent email to the LVMPD PIO, TigerLily informed them that she would be returning to retrieve the record in question and would again be open carrying. The response from the LVMPD PIO to TigerLily's email included the "fresh off the presses" statement I previously posted.

The latest on all this is that I have today faxed a letter to the AG's offices in Carson City and Las Vegas as follows:

Dear Attorney General,

The Public Information Office of the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department recently released the following statement relative to citizens lawfully openly carrying firearms into PUBLIC buildings: "...NRS 202.3673 does indeed prohibit anyone except law enforcement personnel from wearing/carrying a concealed firearm into a police facility. Whether concealed or not, we enforce this NRS to include all persons entering a police facility wearing a firearm. It is our position that we are following the spirit of NRS 202.3673 by asserting our right to maintain a safe work environment for both our employees and visitors. Signage to this effect is located here, and at most government buildings throughout Clark County. Should an armed citizen disregard our request to leave the premises, they may be cited or arrested for trespassing."

Is that the AG's interpretation of NRS 202.3673 as well?

Merlin · Apr 12, 2012

Just arrived at the class, and lo n behold, they have new signage citing 202.3673. Got a photo, will post when I can.
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OC-moto450r · Apr 12, 2012

Rollbar · Apr 12, 2012

Merlin said:
they have new signage citing 202.3673. Got a photo, will post when I can.
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Question, if you CCW and do it correctly ................. Just goes to show, they will find a way until someone w/some $$ challenges it. Where is the NRA/etc in these instances for gun rights :question: Just a thought. Keep up the good work and I can't wait to see the sign.
Jim

usmcmustang · Apr 12, 2012

Rollbar said:
Question, if you CCW and do it correctly ................. Just goes to show, they will find a way until someone w/some $$ challenges it. Where is the NRA/etc in these instances for gun rights :question: Just a thought. Keep up the good work and I can't wait to see the sign.
Jim

The "NRA/etc" do "not like" Open Carriers.... haven't you heard?

Rollbar · Apr 12, 2012

usmcmustang said:
The "NRA/etc" do "not like" Open Carriers.... haven't you heard?

Yes I heard,,,, because we threaten their existence.

IMHO, if they are who they say they are and stand up for GUN RIGHTS etc they would be all over OCing to make it what it should be.

I mentioned on another post we ALL should start our own NRA type and go from there.

The Big Guy · Apr 12, 2012

usmcmustang said:
Actually TBG, this communication from the LVMPD PIO was directed to TigerLily. She open carried into their records depository building to retrieve a police record on an acquaintance of hers a number of weeks ago. She was unable to get the record and was "escorted" out of the building. In a subsequent email to the LVMPD PIO, TigerLily informed them that she would be returning to retrieve the record in question and would again be open carrying. The response from the LVMPD PIO to TigerLily's email included the "fresh off the presses" statement I previously posted.

The latest on all this is that I have today faxed a letter to the AG's offices in Carson City and Las Vegas as follows:

Dear Attorney General,

The Public Information Office of the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department recently released the following statement relative to citizens lawfully openly carrying firearms into PUBLIC buildings: "...NRS 202.3673 does indeed prohibit anyone except law enforcement personnel from wearing/carrying a concealed firearm into a police facility. Whether concealed or not, we enforce this NRS to include all persons entering a police facility wearing a firearm. It is our position that we are following the spirit of NRS 202.3673 by asserting our right to maintain a safe work environment for both our employees and visitors. Signage to this effect is located here, and at most government buildings throughout Clark County. Should an armed citizen disregard our request to leave the premises, they may be cited or arrested for trespassing."

Is that the AG's interpretation of NRS 202.3673 as well?

AG Masto has made it quite clear that she does not answer questions like this from mere citizens. The last such question had to come from the Clark County DA's office. (Her answer in that case was not in our favor.) We need to contact the NVFAC and give them the opportunity to represent us on this issue.

TBG

The Big Guy · Apr 12, 2012

Rollbar said:
Yes I heard,,,, because we threaten their existence.

IMHO, if they are who they say they are and stand up for GUN RIGHTS etc they would be all over OCing to make it what it should be.

I mentioned on another post we ALL should start our own NRA type and go from there.

GOA (Gun owners of America) is a much better choice. They have the inclination but do not have the resources of the mighty NRA.

TBG

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