Hand gun advise

Glock9mmOldStyle said:

Hi-Point.

See post #13 for links & reviews. For under $200 you can not find a better deal on a new 45acp.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?100941-Hi-point-45

It is not the easiest gun to conceal but it beats no gun any day of the week

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For a CCW, of course anyone considering a Hi-Point should really drop their caliber thinking down a notch and go with a 9mm C9.

I'm trying not to bash 1911s in this thread, but if I had around $400+ to spend on one gun to have as a "do everything" gun, it sure wouldn't be a 1911.

Also something to consider: if wanting a .45 for home, a .45 Hi-Point is inexpensive enough to then also afford certain other smaller guns for a CCW gun, such as a PF9.

Also, the OP is in WI. So even if he wants to CC instead open carry, he still doesn't have to worry about extremes such as "no printing" and things if he doesn't want to because you can open carry anything you want. A WI CCW license is more like a license to be able to print and to untuck your shirt and to wear a jacket over your gun in the winter. :lol:

Law abider said:

I am going to a gun store nearby to try many different ones as the owner and many of you suggested before I buy. So the 1911 may not be it. It may be one that I can control/hold.

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That should be your first-and-a-half & first priorities, for safety.
Go to a store & handle everything they'll let you handle to find what fits your hand & aims well with the way your hand/wrist/arm are put together.
Make a list.
Then shoot a few & make a list of the ones that you can control well, with stars by the ones that seem to aim themselves.
THEN look at caliber. (is ammunition commonly available? priced so you can afford to practice? effective at stopping an attacker?)
THEN consider price & the revolver/semiauto debate.

To shop around on price, consider online auction sites & factor in the shipping & local FFL fees.
You might be able to find just what you want at a price you can live with, when it's not available locally or only at a higher price.

IMO, for SD semiautos are the better choice because:
1) More rounds. You're going to miss under pressure, & what if there's more than 1 attacker?
2) Easier/faster reload.
3) Thinner build, if you want to carry concealed.

Revolvers are simple machines, not as much to go wrong, but a decent semiauto will have similar reliability.

MKEgal said:

That should be your first-and-a-half & first priorities, for safety.
Go to a store & handle everything they'll let you handle to find what fits your hand & aims well with the way your hand/wrist/arm are put together.
Make a list.
Then shoot a few & make a list of the ones that you can control well, with stars by the ones that seem to aim themselves.
THEN look at caliber. (is ammunition commonly available? priced so you can afford to practice? effective at stopping an attacker?)
THEN consider price & the revolver/semiauto debate.

To shop around on price, consider online auction sites & factor in the shipping & local FFL fees.
You might be able to find just what you want at a price you can live with, when it's not available locally or only at a higher price.

IMO, for SD semiautos are the better choice because:
1) More rounds. You're going to miss under pressure, & what if there's more than 1 attacker?
2) Easier/faster reload.
3) Thinner build, if you want to carry concealed.

Revolvers are simple machines, not as much to go wrong, but a decent semiauto will have similar reliability.

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Yes! Great advice MKEgal and others. Now MKEgal brought up revolvers. I was originally going to get a Taurus judge. But Cap'tn Nemo suggested that It will be heavy and that I see if his Ruger 357 mag to get the feel and fire some shots. Then I remembered the hold /control doctrine and said to myself that them grips on revolvers don't look like I can grip them well. They all look short and stubby. I have big hands so that is why I thought 1911: They have a large area for me to grip.

Law abider said:

I have big hands so that is why I thought 1911: They have a large area for me to grip.

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Some do. And I suppose you can put wider grips on ones that don't. For me, a typically-gripped 1911 feels nice enough when I hold it, but when I actually shoot it it feels too thin.

I do generally like double-stack 1911s. More capacity, and the grip size will fit a gorilla. And it might be the best gun made to pistol-whip people with. :lol: But someone would have to be a bit masochistic to CC one of those.

If money is that tight, remember .45 costs quite a bit more than 9mm. Let's say you only shoot 50 rounds a month. .45 over 9mm costs you something like an extra $70+ a year. Two years of that is the cost of a Hi-Point, and three years of that is almost the cost of a Kel-Tec PF9. A 9mm or even a .40 pays for itself over a .45. Some people simply want a .45 for various reasons though, and that's cool.

Grapeshot said:

Star parts are very easy to find actually - just need to know where to look

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...one-Carry-A-Star-Firestar&highlight=Bonifacio

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?98371-Star-pistols&highlight=Bonifacio

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Herr Heckler Koch said:

CETME firearms, STAR and ASTRA are victims of the bankrupt Spanish economy. Likely gone.

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Yes Star/Astra went belly up, but......

All parts stock, tooling, and equipment for Star and Astra were purchased by Bonifacio who continues in business - they cannot sell the barrel, frame and slide, but all the rest is available in Euro dollars. I have made several purchases and been quite satisfied. See links above for details to order.

mkegirl has some good advise

some more questions to answer

will you be carrying it , all the time every day ?

how do you see yourself carrying it ? IWB , strong side , pocket , drop leg

will this be a OC or CC primarily ?

what do you wear ?

If you plan to CC are you willing to change your wardrobe to dress around your gun ? the bigger the gun the more you need to dress around it , the smaller flatter and lighter the easier it is to hide

now after you have finished handling every gun you can get your hands on compare , weight, height ,width and length.

now weight out the many compromises, lets face it if we new the probability of a gun fight today or tomorrow was high and money was no object , we would avoid it, your best option would be to stay home and call in sick. yes avoiding a fight is your best bet

however lets say you had to go, you would carry lots of gear , vest , rifle , side arm, backup that is fine if your a cop but doesn't work to well for those of us running to the store , work or out for dinner.

so if you were going to open carry you might say a glock 17 gen 3 with night sights a light and a lazer with 3 extra mags

if your concealed carrying you might say a glock 19 with the 1 standard size mag and 2 high cap mags
or a G26

but your not likely to need your gun today or tomorrow , chances are fairly good it will be a once in a lifetime experience the goal is to make sure it isn't an end of your life experience

so you want the biggest small gun you can be sure to comfortably carry with you every day every where you go that carry is legal.
the best quality gun you can get within your budget
and ammunition you can afford a box or 2 of every month for practice and 2 boxes of quality Self defense ammo of each year
one last criteria left you have to be able to shoot it well out to 7 yards

the Ruger LC9 , Kahr CW9 or similar size are good compromise guns 7 or 8 rounds , that carry easily at 17 oz , if they are easy and comfortable to carry your more likely to be carrying it when you need it

Welcome to carry...open or otherwise. You're going to find that the gun world is not cheap. "Cheap" products tend not to last. I've made the mistake many times and ended up buying twice and crying once. The overall total cost is less if you just buy good stuff to begin with. I made the mistake of buying a Galco biothane belt. Great! A plastic belt for under $30. It barely qualifies as a gun belt and became too weak for carry after six months.

Used guns can be found here:

cdnninvestments.com
summitgunbroker.com
jgsales.com

You can get a used S&W revolver for under $300 at J&G Sales.

Other than that, look for used Glock 19's. It's a good beginner gun for those who do not know what they need in a defensive handgun. If you decide you don't like it, you can easily sell it at the local gun store and get your money back. The Glock 19 is also one of the best balances between concealability, capacity, and shootability. Other manufacturers are catching up, though the M&P Compacts are smaller (but slightly larger than the Glock 26). If you have absolutely no idea what to get, just get a Glock 19, six magazines, a kydex holster (inside the pants if you're skinny; leather pancake outside the pants holster if not), two single magazine holders (go as thin as possible), a leather gunbelt, 1,000 rounds of practice ammo and 200 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 124 grain JHP +P. You'll need a basic cleaning kit and hearing and eye protection. This will keep you going for awhile.

As for low end 1911's...good luck. Good 1911's and "low cost" do not go well together. If you go with Rock Island Armory, check the fit and finish before purchase. Verify the main spring housing wasn't installed by a monkey with a chisel. I've turned down two of these now because of hack marks. I won't spend money on a gun built carelessly.

Also realize that the gun is just half the cost. Do you have any supporting gear? You should budget at least $500 if you are starting with nothing. Night sights are $100+ alone (just buy Warrens, Heinie, or Trijicon since other brands break too easily). Do you have 500 rounds of quality JHP ammunition? Do you have a case or two of practice ammo? Do you have 6-10 high quality magazines from Tripp Research and similar companies? Holsters and magazine holders are another can-o-worms; you can spend several hundred dollars trying to find a rig that works for you. Skip cheap belts and buy a Comp-Tac kydex reinforced belt (1 1/4" to 1 3/4" wide).

All of this does not account for range time and testing since it will be a carry gun. 1911's can be notoriously finicky about ammunition. Verify your gun can get through 200-500+ rounds without jamming. I suggest you buy either S&W, Colt or Springfield Armory because they have excellent customer service. They will *likely* make your gun run if it has problems.

Search 10-8 Precision and 1911 reliability.