Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30

Thread: New member / Carrier

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Metamora, MI
    Posts
    3

    New member / Carrier

    Hello Everyone!

    Name is Blake, I recently purchased my first private handgun. I am planning on going for a CCP however, $200+ is not realistic for me right now.

    I have gone over most of the legal info available, however it seems transporting a pistol in a vehicle without a CCP is like the Catch 22 on Open Carry....

    I can put the firearm in my gunsafe mounted in the back of my SUV out of sight and reach, however if I'm not transporting the fire-arm to go to the range, or to my place of business it seems like I am looking at a nice fat problem should I get pulled over. (Or spotted Open Carrying by a harassment friendly Officer who decides to stalk me until I return to my vehicle)

    Anyone have any experience with how it's possible to legally "legally" open carry without walking from your residence to anywhere you want to go?

    Thanks alot!

    Blake

  2. #2
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    Welcome to OCDO, Blake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pathfinder-2 View Post
    Name is Blake, I recently purchased my first private handgun. Blake
    What other kind of handgun might one purchase is there but a private one, please?

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Metamora, MI
    Posts
    3
    I was just medically retired from the military after 8 years, so there's government hand gun on loan program in my book

    Thank you very much for the welcome! Its amazing to come back to michigan after so long and hear about how far this state has come in some areas. When I heard MI allowed automatic weapons and suppressors now I almost choked on my drink.

  4. #4
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Pathfinder-2 View Post
    I was just medically retired from the military after 8 years, so there's government hand gun on loan program in my book.
    What's this, please, "government hand gun on loan program?" I've never heard of it before.

  5. #5
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Roseville, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    932
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(dgs...transportation


    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions......
    (b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:
    ......
    (vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
    Last edited by fozzy71; 04-07-2012 at 04:35 PM.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Handle the gun to case and uncase outside of the vehicle. Look at the bulldog safes at Dunhams. They have a shell that attatches to the vehicle, then the safe slides into the shell and locks in place on one key with one moove. Very slick little system. Secure, and legal.

    http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CIEBEPMCMAI

    Make sure you are not on the premises of any places listed in MCL 750.234d Violation of this statute is only a misdemeanor, however there is an 8 year prohibition on your CPL (Concealed Pistol License) if you are convicted.

    The firearm has to be registered to YOU.


    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Metamora, MI
    Posts
    3
    Thanks Stainless,

    That is the exact safe system I use in my SUV, its mounted in the back of my SUV down below the rear seat in the truck section, I figured the more inconvienent for me I could make it the more assured the officer would be that I was following the guidelines. It is very nice that it has the mounting bracket because I can take the safe into my home and lock it inside my actual safe at the end of the day, next day I pull it out, put it in the mount inside the car, take it to work and then holster the firearm.

    Thank you for linking the legislation, that is what I have read as well, it was the;

    "(b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:
    ......
    (vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance."

    that seems worrisome to me, it feels like a huge legal grey area, technically any business or other destination is "private property" so you could argue that you were within compliance but it feels like an Officer dead set against open carry could find "wiggle" room somewhere in there to cite you.

    I guess we will see what happens! lol

    I was actually given a list of places to not carry by a friend when I purchased the sidearm.
    ------


    Herr HK, it was a joke, in the military I had a Beretta M-9 Sidearm, so to me this one I own now is my first "privately owned" sidearm.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    The list says "includes". It is not an all inclusive.

    If it is not illegal, having a law passed to make an activity illegal, then it is a legal activity. The list is a bunch of examples. Open carry is legal, so you dont have to worry about it, unless you are going to a place where it is illegal. In such a case, they arent going to charge you with 231a anyhow, just the statute covering the area. 234d for instance.

    You can OC with confidence pretty much everywhere in the state. They are your rights, be proud of them, and the fact that you don't have to die on your knees.

    Carry a digital voice recorder, with a USB. If you have one, use the phone to record your activities to an off site location.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Quote Originally Posted by Pathfinder-2 View Post

    I was actually given a list of places to not carry by a friend when I purchased the sidearm.
    ------

    .
    See the chart on the last post here:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...65#post1700365

  10. #10
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Pathfinder-2 View Post
    Hello Everyone!

    Name is Blake, I recently purchased my first private handgun. I am planning on going for a CCP however, $200+ is not realistic for me right now.

    I have gone over most of the legal info available, however it seems transporting a pistol in a vehicle without a CCP is like the Catch 22 on Open Carry....

    I can put the firearm in my gunsafe mounted in the back of my SUV out of sight and reach, however if I'm not transporting the fire-arm to go to the range, or to my place of business it seems like I am looking at a nice fat problem should I get pulled over. (Or spotted Open Carrying by a harassment friendly Officer who decides to stalk me until I return to my vehicle)

    Anyone have any experience with how it's possible to legally "legally" open carry without walking from your residence to anywhere you want to go?

    Thanks alot!

    Blake
    You can transport for any "lawful purpose". OC is a "lawful purpose".

    750.231a
    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  11. #11
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    What's this, please, "government hand gun on loan program?" I've never heard of it before.
    Inside joke, the goverment loans you a gun sometimes more than one usually full auto or burst fire. Encourages you very strongly to know how it works, sends you to strange and distant lands to use said weapon. Then not so politely demands its return when you have satisfied your contract to them. Sometimes the even give you rockets missiles and high explosives and big but not shiney multi million dollar pieces of equipment to operate. Sadly they don't let you keep these either.

    First Cavalry Division, Ft. Hood Texas. Welcome home Pathfinder!
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    They should at least let you keep your rifle and handgun.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Clinton Twp
    Posts
    257
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    They should at least let you keep your rifle and handgun.
    Don't know about the rifle, but how about giving a M1911A1 or M9 (their choice) to EVERY honorably discharged service member as a "Thank You" for their service?

    Welcome to the forums
    Last edited by Hevymetal; 04-07-2012 at 10:16 PM.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    I would support that.

    How about every combat soldier keeps the rifle, every other soldier keeps their handgun.

  15. #15
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    Also Michigan is CPL not CCP.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  16. #16
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Grand Rapids
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by Hevymetal View Post
    Don't know about the rifle, but how about giving a M1911A1 or M9 (their choice) to EVERY honorably discharged service member as a "Thank You" for their service?

    Welcome to the forums
    I would support a law that excludes vets from EVER having to pay taxes; income, sales, FICA, etc. as a small token of our esteem for their service.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Troy, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,321
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    I would support a law that excludes vets from EVER having to pay taxes; income, sales, FICA, etc. as a small token of our esteem for their service.
    nice, i agree with both this and the free gun
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  18. #18
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    I support a law that eliminates the income tax.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lapeer, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I support a law that eliminates the income tax.
    I too would support that law! I know we all could spend our money much more wisely than those in DC.

  20. #20
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,937
    Quote Originally Posted by Pathfinder-2 View Post
    "(b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:
    ......
    (vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance."

    that seems worrisome to me, it feels like a huge legal grey area, technically any business or other destination is "private property" so you could argue that you were within compliance but it feels like an Officer dead set against open carry could find "wiggle" room somewhere in there to cite you.
    Politely replying to the officer "I do not wish to discuss my itinerary" means you never have to worry about this.

    You are not required to tell an officer where you came from nor where you are going. And without that information, even an officer who wrongly interprets that law lacks basis for probable cause that you violated his wrong interpretation of it.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  21. #21
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    Inside joke, the goverment loans you a gun sometimes more than one usually full auto or burst fire. Encourages you very strongly to know how it works, sends you to strange and distant lands to use said weapon. Then not so politely demands its return when you have satisfied your contract to them. Sometimes the even give you rockets missiles and high explosives and big but not shiney multi million dollar pieces of equipment to operate. Sadly they don't let you keep these either.

    First Cavalry Division, Ft. Hood Texas. Welcome home Pathfinder!
    Well, my 'toy' was full of tens of kilograms of non-shiny metal enclosed in a vessel of well machined stainless steel that made a 7,000 ton equipment go. I played with these toys for 26 years to an early and so far comfortable retirement.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    Politely replying to the officer "I do not wish to discuss my itinerary" means you never have to worry about this.

    You are not required to tell an officer where you came from nor where you are going. And without that information, even an officer who wrongly interprets that law lacks basis for probable cause that you violated his wrong interpretation of it.
    Above is sound advice which I have used & found to be very effective. +1
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wayne County, MI.
    Posts
    271
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I support a law that eliminates the income tax.
    I agree, unfortunately it seems that only 115970 other voters from MI agree with you and I.

  24. #24
    Regular Member michaelm_ski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Clare , MICHIGAN
    Posts
    99

    Can't Afford the CPL Class .

    Does anyone know if Michigan has any Free CPL classes ? I have read some other states have them ? I would appreciate any help as I have been asked about this also .

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Never heard of that. If you find one, please PM me.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •