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Thread: Walmart to fire employees for tackling austin shooter?

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Walmart to fire employees for tackling austin shooter?

    I hate long titles, but couldn't think of anything shorter. Anyway!

    This thread is about the employees of walmart that tackled the man who shot an officer twice in Austin, Texas.

    Tonight I went out to buy some cigarettes for my mother, but all the stores were, so I ended up at Walmart. There I ran into a couple of my friends and one of them mentioned that Walmart is talking about during those two employees. Now, I don't have any actual sources and I never thought to ask him where he heard that. So basically all I have is an I heard from a friend. But this friend works at Walmart, this Walmart is in Bastrop, which is right outside of Austin. I have worked for Walmart. I also know of a number of similar cases where everyone, even the straight up victim, were fired for doing exactly what these two did.

    One such example that immediately pops into mind: not that long ago, security caught a man shoplifting and took him to the back room with a manager. There were two security guys and manager. This is proper procedure for Walmart. While in the security room, which is horribly small and they would have barely fit, the man pulled out a gun and took the manager hostage. He demanded to be released and promised no one would get hurt if they let him go. Instead the security guys tackled the gunman and managed to pin him down until police arrived. No one got hurt and the man never even got a shot off. But none of that actually mattered to corporate, all there employees were fired a couple weeks later. As far as Walmart was concerned, the man promised not to hurt anyone and as we all know, thieves and potential murderers never lie. So they should have believed him and let him go, but they didn't so Walmart fired them.

    Walmart, like many other places, has a history of firing people in situations like these. They would rather have a dangerous criminal running around their store with a gun than allow even the slightest risk of a lawsuit. So it won't surprise me if they do get fired.

    Then again, the man shot a cop and the police seem really happy with these two. Might not make them too happy if they were to get fired for trying to save an officer's life. That might sour Walmart's relationship with the police. So who knows, their jobs could be safe.


    The main reason I bring this up, is because I am sick and tired of all these policies that empower criminals to the detriment of everyone else. And I don't just mean making it easier for criminals to do their thing, but also attempting to tie the hands of their employees and not allow them to take the best course of action for a given situation. One day we had this crazy ass woman come into our store and instead of escorting her out the door like we should have done, the managers put up with her for hours in fear of getting in trouble with corporate for kicking her out.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Most of the time the policy seems to be driven by "It's only property/money and we have insurance." Pretty much the same thing for pizza/Chinese/whatever delivery persons. Let the BG leave with whatever he wants because the customers next week will eventually make up the loss. And the few instances I have read about where the employee tries to sue the employer for being forced into defenselessness seem to be nothing but ways for attorneys to collect some fees on a case they know will be dismissed before the ink is fully dry on the complaint.

    While one of the last things I want to see happen is for store employees to take on self-appointed police duties (loss prevention does a bad enough job at that) I really become distraught when a company fires employees who try to protect an innocent third party, let alone when they try to protect themselves. (And for those of you who would say the cop was dead when the employees tackled the [alleged - almost forgot to say that] shooter, please remember that they were not trained and certified to determine that he was in fact dead and therefore no longer in need of being defended.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    I don't want to see them acting like police either, I know that at least some, if allowed, definitely would. They have an unhealthy since of protection for the company they work for, always automatically assume an individual is upto no good when they do some unexpected, unusual or something they don't underdtand. Some will do everything policy allows to prevent the company from being ripped off, some will go beyond their authorization. But I see that as the lesser of the two evils to be honest. It already happens to an extent anyway and at least then the good employees will be able to protect themselves. Let the law deal with the rest.

    I think the concern is lawsuits that could arise from employees being allowed to carry and fight back. Like you said, it's better for them to just allow the robbery to happen.

    Me, if someone wanted the contents of my drawer, I'd give it too them. Like you said, ain't worth fightin over. If they want it bad enough they can have. Of course my personal property is a while nother story.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Angry

    If they are fired, I see Wally mart getting yet another well deserved black eye in the press. It boils down to this: to them it is easier to replace a dead worker than to face a lawsuit. They even take out hidden life insurance policies on their employees to make profits off their deaths

    What we need is Federal law on the books that gives people the right to at least try & defend themselves & others without the fear of becoming victoms again after the fact by a shady employer.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  5. #5
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Better an activist jury than another welldamned law!

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Better an activist jury than another welldamned law!
    Wish it worked like that. It does not currently read skids post they (wally mart) know most cases get tossed before the ink is dry. Those that make it are stalled to infinity by corporate lawyers until the plaintiff can no longer afford to proceed... gold rules often today over right and common sense
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Wish it worked like that. It does not currently read skids post they (wally mart) know most cases get tossed before the ink is dry. Those that make it are stalled to infinity by corporate lawyers until the plaintiff can no longer afford to proceed... gold rules often today over right and common sense
    So does sufficient application of base mettle.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    So does sufficient application of base mettle.


    Well said, base mettle moving at terminal velocity will always be a equallizer in the battle for life, liberty and justice. Our forefathers understood this, but many today find this concept too difficult to grasp and just let it slip from their minds. That is until something bad happens to them or their loved ones.

    Carry on my fellow country men....& women
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Regular Member michaelm_ski's Avatar
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    Walmart to fire employees ?

    There we have it another example of the criminal having all the rights and the victim left with no rights or means of self defense . God we have to love the people who make these judgement calls . .

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    ....
    They even take out hidden life insurance policies on their employees to make profits off their deaths
    ....
    Can I get a citation regarding this? I'll even accept The National Enquirer or The Globe.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelm_ski View Post
    There we have it another example of the criminal having all the rights and the victim left with no rights or means of self defense . God we have to love the people who make these judgement calls . .
    Excuse me, but just who are you calling victims in this?

    As I read the reports there was only one victim - the police officer. And he carried a bat-belt full of implements to deploy in either subduing someone or defending himself. And he wore that bat-belt without anybody making fun of all the toys he hung on it.

    The two employees who may or may not be fired for jumping in and subduing the alleged perpetrator of the alleged attack on the police officer with an alleged handgun are not victims but, depending on your perspective, buttinskis or heroic individuals. But victims, as regards the incident under discussion, they are not.

    Let's not confuse and conflate the issue here, OK?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Can I get a citation regarding this? I'll even accept The National Enquirer or The Globe.

    stay safe.
    Sorry skid, i am using a tiny little tablet that makes it near impossible for me to copy links accurately with my huge meat hooks. It ran on network tv sometime ago google wal mart secret employee insurance policies. In short they take out policies without the employees knowledge or their families, then collect when they die. Once I get to a real computer (not a toy) I will post links, if some kind soul has not done so by then.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Thumbs up 10 min

    Poking away finally got the damn thing to paste, now if i could just get spell check to work


    http://consumerist.com/2007/07/walma...eir-death.html
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Regular Member Wolf1477's Avatar
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    Apparently the practice was discontinued in 2000, but, there are a lot of news articles about them doing it.

    http://consumerist.com/2007/07/walma...eir-death.html

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Sorry skid, i am using a tiny little tablet that makes it near impossible for me to copy links accurately with my huge meat hooks. It ran on network tv sometime ago google wal mart secret employee insurance policies. In short they take out policies without the employees knowledge or their families, then collect when they die. Once I get to a real computer (not a toy) I will post links, if some kind soul has not done so by then.
    What may be misapplied here is the fact that many companies chose to protect themselves against the sudden loss of "key employees." Such loss can have a seriously disruptive efffect on an organization and might well impact their bottom line. To insure against that loss is hardly unreasonable.

    Do I think that the assistant manager of ladies foundations or a night stock clerk is a "key employee" to whom this "secret employee insurance policy" would possibly apply? I think not likely unless cows flying today. Both ideas seem rather imaginative - a little bit of fact does not make a whole lot of truth.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Excuse me, but just who are you calling victims in this?

    As I read the reports there was only one victim - the police officer. And he carried a bat-belt full of implements to deploy in either subduing someone or defending himself. And he wore that bat-belt without anybody making fun of all the toys he hung on it.

    The two employees who may or may not be fired for jumping in and subduing the alleged perpetrator of the alleged attack on the police officer with an alleged handgun are not victims but, depending on your perspective, buttinskis or heroic individuals. But victims, as regards the incident under discussion, they are not.

    Let's not confuse and conflate the issue here, OK?

    stay safe.
    I think he was talking in general here. I hope wally mart does not follow their usual policy in this case. Only time will tell. I avoid them when I can, going to local businesses whenever possible.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    What may be misapplied here is the fact that many companies chose to protect themselves against the sudden loss of "key employees." Such loss can have a seriously disruptive efffect on an organization and might well impact their bottom line. To insure against that loss is hardly unreasonable.

    Do I think that the assistant manager of ladies foundations or a night stock clerk is a "key employee" to whom this "secret employee insurance policy" would possibly apply? I think not likely unless cows flying today. Both ideas seem rather imaginative - a little bit of fact does not make a whole lot of truth.
    Well one of the more disturbing cases involved a walmart bakery lady. She was a young mother who died from cancer. Her family was left bankrupt from the hospital bills, while walmart walked away with a large sum of money. I am all for the free market, but this is nothing more than speculating on death in my honest opinion.
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 04-09-2012 at 01:14 PM. Reason: need better mobile device
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Poking away finally got the damn thing to paste, now if i could just get spell check to work


    http://consumerist.com/2007/07/walma...eir-death.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf1477 View Post
    Apparently the practice was discontinued in 2000, but, there are a lot of news articles about them doing it.

    http://consumerist.com/2007/07/walma...eir-death.html
    Ahh yes CourtTV- dependable source. What does cause me some confusion having been in the insurance industry, is how one goes about insuring the life of someone in whom you have no financial interest - yes that was a requirement, at least back then.

    Whatever the specifics, this practice would seem to have been discontinued 12 years ago and hardly seems germane to OC or RKBA.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Ahh yes CourtTV- dependable source. What does cause me some confusion having been in the insurance industry, is how one goes about insuring the life of someone in whom you have no financial interest - yes that was a requirement, at least back then.

    Whatever the specifics, this practice would seem to have been discontinued 12 years ago and hardly seems germane to OC or RKBA.
    This was only one source it was also in many papers and ran in national tv reports, if that was not the case it would still be going on. It is germane because it shows their low regard for the value of a human life and their willingness to profit from their deaths. We carry to protect life correct? They punish their employees for attempting to do the same. SHAME ON THEM! I beleive we all have the right to defend ourselves, even the less fortunate folks who make minimum wage working at wal mart. But since they cannot oc I guess we shouldn't talk about them?
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    This was only one source it was also in many papers and ran in national tv reports, if that was not the case it would still be going on. It is germane because it shows their low regard for the value of a human life and their willingness to profit from their deaths. We carry to protect life correct? They punish their employees for attempting to do the same. SHAME ON THEM! I beleive we all have the right to defend ourselves, even the less fortunate folks who make minimum wage working at wal mart. But since they cannot oc I guess we shouldn't talk about them?
    I have never held Wal-Mart in the low esteem regarding RKBA that some appear to do, not even when I was temporarily banned from one Wal-Mart by an anti manager. Note he was replaced shortly by a pro female manager shortly thereafter.

    Whether Wal-Mart had life insurance on either manager has nothing to do with OC, RKBA or the 2nd Amendment. If they don't provide health insurance for part-time employees or otherwise provide working conditions that we might find less than disireable does not fit the guidelines of OCDO.

    That the employees, who of their own volition, held the shooter is about as close as it gets.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Question

    One could say if wal mart allowed its staff to protect themselves via OC or any other way that many bad things that currently happen there may not. BUT since the OP did not phrase it that way go ahead and close this thread that clearly makes some uncomfortable. That is where you are going with this correct?
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 04-09-2012 at 02:29 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    One could say if wal mart allowed its staff to protect themselves via OC or any other way that many bad things that currently happen there may not. BUT since the OP did not phrase it that way go ahead and close this thread that clearly makes some uncomfortable. That is where you are going with this correct?
    Had there been a decided need to close the thread it would already be closed. It is preferred that user/posters stay within the target area voluntarily as OCDO's purpose and scope is not without limits. That should not impose a hardship on anyone.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    One such example that immediately pops into mind: not that long ago, security caught a man shoplifting and took him to the back room with a manager. There were two security guys and manager. This is proper procedure for Walmart. While in the security room, which is horribly small and they would have barely fit, the man pulled out a gun and took the manager hostage. He demanded to be released and promised no one would get hurt if they let him go. Instead the security guys tackled the gunman and managed to pin him down until police arrived.
    One key difference: in your example, no one had been hurt, but they increased the risk that someone would get hurt by tackling a man who was holding a gun to someone's head.

    In the Austin case, there was no increase in danger, because the man had already shot a cop in the face and was likely to shoot others. At worst, they would do no good; at best, they saved lives.

    At least, that's how I imagine they'll justify it if they don't fire them. I would hope that's their logic, rather than the fact the shooting victim was a cop instead of just a Wal-Mart employee.
    Last edited by KBCraig; 04-11-2012 at 10:52 PM. Reason: typo

  24. #24
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    How they justify something and what their reasons are can be very different. Though you are right that it could make the difference.

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    I think Walmarts train of thought is that the security guy endangered the manager by trying to do his job :P He should be honored for it and not fired imho.

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