SHTF firearm choices

For f's sake, please don't take this too seriously

Assuming my wife and I end up moving to Washington State, I'll be purchasing an FN Five-seveN for OC. I'm also aware of the AR-57, and while I've long said that I have no need of an AR weapon, it's intriguing. Hell, it's cool, and that's probably enough for me.

However, the shared ammunition between the Five-seveN and the AR-57 got me thinking about SHTF scenarios. I want to talk, specifically, about what cartridge or cartridges you'd want to have weapons for in a long-term SHTF situation. I don't think the 5.7x28mm round is preferable when facing the probability of having to acquire ammunition after your stores expire, simply due to its relative rarity. Let's not talk about the most preferable single cartridge and gun if you only have one gun. I want to talk about the gun and cartridge options if you're planning for a SHTF scenario, wherein you would have the options of pistol and rifle, and maybe even pistol carbine. Self-defense, hunting, etc are on the table. The idea here is this: we are planning the guns (and rounds) we'd take with us if we knew we had to be mobile, and ordered society was significantly, if not totally, broken-down. To be clear: hunkering in one location is 100% out of the question, in this discussion. I'm aware some people think they could hunker in one location; it is stipulated that this is off-topic, so please leave any and all such discussion out of this, no matter how unrealistic you think this stipulation is.

In the interest of kicking off this discussion, I'd like to offer some thoughts I've had. I won't get into everything I've thought of, but I'll give some thoughts I think aren't useless.

9x19 and .22LR are extremely common, so they present themselves as strong contenders for pistol and pistol carbine/submachine gun. .30-06 is an obviously strong choice for rifle.

Because time frame is open-ended, it's possible we might desire to be able to craft our own cartridges. Brass we could keep. Gun powder... I don't know enough to talk about possibilites. Some simpler rounds that aren't dependent on complex formation (e.g. Spitzer rounds) could be easier to craft projectiles for from scrap. What about a reproduction Model 1873 (or analogue) in .44-40? Again, powder needs to be addressed, but you could reuse brass, and you could, relatively easily, mold the projectile. The mechanism of a Model 1873 is also relatively simple to maintain.

Ammunition is heavy, so sharing ammo across weapons is great. Is there a pistol round with sufficient range that it could be used for general-purpose hunting and placement defense, to such a degree that you could forego carrying a longer-range rifle? That would lower weight, reduce ammo requirements, etc.

Thinking out loud, here.

Aren't you from Texas? We already addressed the issue of powder over a hundred years ago. Cotton, baby.

As for the 5.7, if you want a companion weapon, then you should go with the P90, the FN Five-seveN was designed as a companion for the P90. Which is why it eats the 5.7, a round designed specifically for the P90.

Personally, I want to buy an AR platform in 5.56 specifically because it can fire both 5.56 and .223, which are both pretty common.

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+1 Jack
I think the 5.56/.223 are both very effective, abundant rounds. Not to mention you can always build the worlds shortest AR Pistol for your pistol/rifle combo and they still fill the need for shared ammo amongst the two. There are plenty of .45 LC pistol/rifle combo's and .45-70's as well that would likewise get the job done... just .02 cents from the peanut gallery...

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My favorite combo would be the .357 mag. Revolvers and lever guns worked well in simpler times, they're probably do the same now. Since everything is human power jams would be less of an consideration. Also the .357 is big enough to take down white tail or humans.

But right now my all time favorite rifle round is the .308 nato. A .308 bolt gun with a scope can wreak havoc from 500 yds no problem. Wind at that distance wouldn't be much of a problem unless you were in a wind storm so the holds would be a "breeze". Also the .308 can be found in plenty of semi autos if that is your preferred rout. Best of all is the .308 is a very common round. The military and a lot of LEA use them. Not to mention a lot of civilians have them around. Since I would want to keep anything in need of some killing out to distance I wouldn't want to pack heavy pistol rounds (I am already packing semi heavy rifle rounds) so I would go with the 9mm nato to fill this role. I would go with the .22 but most have issues with ammo as it is. I wouldn't be able to imagine the reliability of a .22 with weathered ammo in a fouled gun. So maybe I would have the .22 as a standby.

Also, though not desirable, a .308 can feed the .243 round if worse comes to worse. The .243 is also a common hunting round, this one is preferred by some coyote hunters for its flat trajectory. Accuracy would be poor at best, but sometimes you just need to send some lead and hope for the best. No one is going to complain about the accuracy at 25 yds. It would probably reliably hit inside the size of a torso.

well,,,

If you fired a .243,,, out of a .308,,, at 25 yds,,, it would likely bounce off like a pebble...

My advice is, cheap guys,, buy Hi-Point 9mm pistol and a carbine and extra mags,
Lots of extra money left over to buy much ammo for your self defense.
9mm will be the most easy to buy, trade or take!!!

5.56 and .40 s&w

Ive got an ar 15 with dot sight i want a qwick on off night vision. Im working on getting a suppressor for it as well. Ive got about 1000 rounds of M855 penetrator ammo in 11 mags and the rest n stripper clips all packed in my bob. My OC XD40 is always on me need to get about 500 rounds in my bob. I would really like to get a bug out location set up with a couple thousand rounds sealled and burried. A small 12 guage would be wize as well especially if you could have it stored on your pack.
_
My thought is there would be retrievable ammo off military and law and avereage home.

+ 1, 9mm, 5.56/.223 in great abundance.

I like the AR, call me nostalgic, but since I was in the Marines I just like them. Self protection in an urban environment is mostly going to be short range.

1245A Defender said:

If you fired a .243,,, out of a .308,,, at 25 yds,,, it would likely bounce off like a pebble...

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Maybe you're right. I don't know as I never cared to try it. All I know is that .243 will chamber up in my bolt gun (gf has a .243) and it will dent the primer. My girlfriend was wanting a bullet necklace, so I drilled the case emptied the powder, oiled the primer and dented the primer to make sure it was dead.

I can't seem to find anything online about anyone testing this. Think it would hurt the gun or shooter in anyway?

Some good choices that I agree with: .22LR, 9mm, .223/5.56. They're all relatively abundant, cheap and easy to carry. I'll throw .308 in there as well for if you just really need a long range rifle round for some reason. But when the SHTF, there's really not a whole lot you'll be using .308 for that you can't accomplish with .223. Ahh the beauty and diversity of the AR.

Rounds that I don't agree with: .40 S&W, .30-06, .45-70. .40 I only marginally disagree with, because for a given weight, you'll be able to carry less of it, and it's not as cheap or as plentiful as 9mm. However, it's still much more plentiful than many other pistol choices. .30-06 is just way too large of a cartridge to be practical. It requires a long action rifle, which isn't so bad for bolt, but a semi-auto is going to be huge and heavy. Yes, it's a versatile round, but ballistics are pretty similar to .308 and .308 is much much shorter so you'll be able to carry more of it. .45-70 suffers the same problem-size and weight. it's also not as common.

A really interesting idea is using .357 as a cross between your pistol and a lever rifle. While not the cheapest option, it is extraordinarily common, and relatively lightweight when compared to rifle rounds. It'd be similar to carrying a 9mm pistol and a 9mm carbine (which I would recommend as an option), only more effective as a long gun round.

Personally, I would prefer to have a 9mm pistol and a 5.56 AR. Going down in preference: 9mm pistol/.347 lever gun, .357 pistol/lever gun, 9mm pistol/carbine, 9mm pistol/12 ga shotgun.

That's right, 12 gauge! I know, I've been preaching about carrying capacity all this time, but think about it: 12 ga is brutally effective, one of the most common types of ammo available next to 9mm, .223 and .357, cheaper than rifle rounds, easy to maintain, and extremely versatile. You can load it up with everything between bird shot, rubber bullets, buck shot and rifled slugs. And if you run out of those but have some powder and primers, you can reload your spent shells with BBs, nuts and bolts, or any piece of metal

09jisaac said:

Maybe you're right. I don't know as I never cared to try it. All I know is that .243 will chamber up in my bolt gun (gf has a .243) and it will dent the primer. My girlfriend was wanting a bullet necklace, so I drilled the case emptied the powder, oiled the primer and dented the primer to make sure it was dead.

I can't seem to find anything online about anyone testing this. Think it would hurt the gun or shooter in anyway?

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Any of these rounds, save for the ones that have been necked up from the .308 diameter, will chamber in your .308 rifle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308#The_.308_Winchester_as_a_parent_case

SovereignAxe said:

That's right, 12 gauge! I know, I've been preaching about carrying capacity all this time, but think about it: 12 ga is brutally effective, one of the most common types of ammo available next to 9mm, .223 and .357, cheaper than rifle rounds, easy to maintain, and extremely versatile. You can load it up with everything between bird shot, rubber bullets, buck shot and rifled slugs. And if you run out of those but have some powder and primers, you can reload your spent shells with BBs, nuts and bolts, or any piece of metal

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It is a very common round but I just don't see the effectiveness of a 12 ga outweighing the limits of it. It is a proven man stopper and hunting round, but, like you said, you would be very limited on carrying capacity. Other than that one fatal flaw I do have to agree with you about the 12ga as a contender for a SHTF firearm. It is very versatile, easy to use and maintain and few people who on firearms don't own a 12ga. You can give someone a couple hours of training with a 12ga and they can reliably take small game with it, very uncommon with any other firearm. Anything from birds/squirrels to whitetail can easily be taken with a 12ga, if you are using the correct projectile(s).

SovereignAxe said:

Any of these rounds, save for the ones that have been necked up from the .308 diameter, will chamber in your .308 rifle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308#The_.308_Winchester_as_a_parent_case

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I did not know this. But I do not think most of these rounds would be as common as either the .308, 7.62 NATO, or the .243.

Screw you guys. Since you'll be taking all the 9mm and .223, I'm going to plan for 10mm and .25 ACP. ha!

Or, I'd probably go with lots of .22.

DangerClose said:

Screw you guys. Since you'll be taking all the 9mm and .223, I'm going to plan for 10mm and .25 ACP. ha!

Or, I'd probably go with lots of .22.

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Since this is all hypothetical, consider weight also. Bigger guns + bigger ammo = heavy carry. You may need to be hoofing a lot so keep in mind its a good idea to have your sidearm and long gun ammo the same if possible. There are some problems with ammo that is "close" causing dangerous bounce in the barrel. You don't want your bullet jamming in the barrel when the zombies come a calling.

9mm, .22 lr, and 12 gauge. I was going to throw in 7.62X39 but figured I would take the three rounds that are in abundance at most stores that I have been in that sell ammunition.

If I had to choose between the above three, .22 lr any day of the week, and twice on Sunday; I would prefer a carbine, and a handgun that ran .22 through it (got a .22 lr conversion kit for my Beretta 92fs). In an urban situation the .22 round would be great in a number of respects, particularly if you are deal with groups of individuals you are up against as it is better to wound all of them than kill them; it takes a couple of people to assist an injured comrade.

Hopefully they will care about their wounded, terrorists don't. I cant really imagine many would in that situation. If you're up against zombies, they obviously won't. The plus side is that if you are close enough to penetrate the skull, then .22LR would by far be the best round. It's small, lightweight, so you can easily carry tons of it.

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Jack House said:

<snip> so you can easily carry tons of it.

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Carry 'tons' of it....that is priceless.

OC for ME said:

Carry 'tons' of it....that is priceless.

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As opposed to tons of 9mm :lol:

Which weighs more, a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers?

I have a .40 cal pistol and was thinking of getting one of those .40 cal carbine riffles. I caliber round for two weapons. May not be the lightest ammo but still packs a good enough punch to take down even larger game.

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EOTWAWKI, whether Zombie App or just economic breakdown, it would have the same end result. You will be on your own. I see people buying gold. I store rice and .22 ammunition. My "prepper" weapons would/may be 9mm, .223/5.56 rifle and pistol, and the obligatory 12 ga. Lots of .22 for hunting and for trade, and yes, a suppressor to keep the neighbors out of my business.

MSG Laigaie said:

EOTWAWKI, whether Zombie App or just economic breakdown, it would have the same end result. You will be on your own. I see people buying gold. I store rice and .22 ammunition. My "prepper" weapons would/may be 9mm, .223/5.56 rifle and pistol, and the obligatory 12 ga. Lots of .22 for hunting and for trade, and yes, a suppressor to keep the neighbors out of my business.

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I store rice as well; also eat rice every day so if SHTF it wouldn't be a shock to my system. I keep our food basic in every day eating, not only is it economical but when you are used to salty sugary junk-foods, life will suck in a SHTF situation.

We have 12 gauge shotguns as primary [edit] because it is an all around rifle; worse case, you can slug a deer if you had to.