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Thread: Indiana...permit to OC

  1. #1
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Indiana...permit to OC

    I recently bought my wife a Taurus TCP .380. We live in Ky but her family is in Indiana. That weekend she was going there to visit. I told her to take her gun with her "just in case". We OC here (in KY) all the time and I thought that you could do so anywhere in America. She said she thought Indiana law was different from Ky law. At first I told her she was crazy and that the 2nd protected that ANYWHERE in the USA. But I called ISP to prove her wrong. I just about **** when the trooper told me that if we were caught OC'ing in Indiana without a permit that we would be arrested. I thought maybe this trooper didnt know straight up so I called a different number to speak to another trooper. He told me the same thing. I ask where the constitution played into this. He said that they didnt refuse you the right to carry, that you just had to buy a permit. My response was "so you have to pay for your rights?" I wanted to ask him if I could even say that freely or if I needed to buy a permit so I could have my freedom of speach...made me sick and oh so glad that we live in KY. How do the states do this?

  2. #2
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    I recently bought my wife a Taurus TCP .380. We live in Ky but her family is in Indiana. That weekend she was going there to visit. I told her to take her gun with her "just in case". We OC here (in KY) all the time and I thought that you could do so anywhere in America. She said she thought Indiana law was different from Ky law. At first I told her she was crazy and that the 2nd protected that ANYWHERE in the USA. But I called ISP to prove her wrong. I just about **** when the trooper told me that if we were caught OC'ing in Indiana without a permit that we would be arrested. I thought maybe this trooper didnt know straight up so I called a different number to speak to another trooper. He told me the same thing. I ask where the constitution played into this. He said that they didnt refuse you the right to carry, that you just had to buy a permit. My response was "so you have to pay for your rights?" I wanted to ask him if I could even say that freely or if I needed to buy a permit so I could have my freedom of speach...made me sick and oh so glad that we live in KY. How do the states do this?
    Different states have different laws. I'd suggest not carrying in any state until you know their laws. Illinois for example does not allow any form of carry for regular citizens. It is true if you are going to open carry or concealed carry in Indiana you must have a permit to carry but it can be from any state, resident or non-resident. While many of us on here believe you should not need a permit to carry concealed or openly anywhere in the U.S. that is not the case. You can get yourself in some very hot water if you illegally carry. This website does a pretty good job of showing the carry laws of various states. Also keep in mind that certain states that have concealed carry but ban open carry (Florida for example).
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/

    IC 35-47-2-21
    Recognition of retail dealers' licenses and licenses to carry handguns issued by other states
    (b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana.
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 04-09-2012 at 11:40 PM.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    By passing laws. The same way Ky. says you can't carry a gun on school property or in a bar. No right is absolute, in KY. or anywhere else. Just owning a handgun was illegal in DC for 40 years.
    Washington, D.C. is not a state as defined by the government, and therefore is not covered by the Constitution per se. That is the loophole that was used for so long to prevent U.S. citizens from legally owning a handgun if they were a resident of the District.

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    Indiana doesn't have a permit to open carry. They have a license to carry a handgun, which covers both concealed and open carry. Indiana law does not differentiate between open and concealed carry. Indiana does recognize all other state-issued handgun carry licenses (according to the terms thereof and while the holder is not a resident of Indiana).

    How does Indiana get away with it? How does the federal government get away with the 1934 NFA, 1968 GCA, and 1986 FOPA?

    How does Kentucky get away with requiring a permit to conceal a handgun and limiting it to only those 21 and older? How do they get away with requiring a class and a tax to carry a concealed handgun?

    Citizens let their state and federal governments get away with violating the second amendment. We/you don't hold them accountable to the law that was written to restrain them.

    Next time you visit, check this link: http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/ It's better than calling the state police.

  5. #5
    Regular Member CathyInBlue's Avatar
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    If you have a KY LTCH, then yes, you can freely swim the river (or use one of the bridges, if they haven't all fallen down) and OC in IN. I think the police wonks you talked to on the phone were under the impression you had no out of state licenses whatsoever. If that is, in fact the case, then they are correct.

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    Regular Member Titanium_frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Cathy, you are factually correct, but Indiana has a "License to Carry Handgun" (LTCH). Ky. does not. We have a "Carry Concealed Deadly Weapons License" (CCDW). It may not be a great distinction and may not matter to you in Indiana, but on our side of the river we are not limited to handguns. We can carry any deadly weapon we want and as many as we want in any combination we want. Of course, on the Indiana side, Hoosier law prevails. Don't forget that in Ky., our license is only necessary to conceal, we can OC most weapons without any license.
    Well if you want to start comparing who can carry what and where and when then we trump you in long gun carry because no permit is required open/concealed/loaded whatever. We only need a permission slip to carry our handguns.

    In the way that infringements go its not too bad and we only have to go through it once with our Lifetime licenses. We also recognize any carry license from any other state or country because we are cool like that.

    Something else to consider is our complete state preemption of gun laws. No longer do you have to worry about carrying in one city and not another. There are no local laws to memorize, just the (relatively) simple state laws/infringements.

    Sent from my BlackBerry while OCing at the Zoo

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    Don't forget, knives* are not prohibited from being carried concealed or openly in Indiana either. The handgun is the only weapon where carry is limited until you pay your $125 lifetime carry tax (no training required).

    Also, we can carry in restaurants that are licensed to sell alcohol as well as bars.




    *Switchblades are prohibited to own, but we're working on that. It's pretty much moot anyway since there are plenty of fast-opening non-switchblades like the Kershaw Leek. Also, chinese throwing stars are illegal :O
    Last edited by cce1302; 04-14-2012 at 08:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cce1302;1737549 The handgun is the [I
    only[/I] weapon where carry is limited until you pay your $125 lifetime carry tax (no training required).
    Not quite correct, tasers and stun weapons also require a ltch.
    IC 35-47-8-4
    Applicability of handgun provisions
    Sec. 4. IC 35-47-2 applies to an electronic stun weapon or taser.
    As added by P.L.318-1985, SEC.3.

    IC 35-47-8-1
    "Electronic stun weapon" defined
    Sec. 1. As used in this chapter, "electronic stun weapon" means any mechanism that is:
    (1) designed to emit an electronic, magnetic, or other type of charge that exceeds the equivalency of a five (5) milliamp sixty (60) hertz shock; and
    (2) used for the purpose of temporarily incapacitating a person.

    IC 35-47-8-3
    "Taser" defined
    Sec. 3. As used in this chapter, "taser" means any mechanism that is:
    (1) designed to emit an electronic, magnetic, or other type of charge or shock through the use of a projectile; and
    (2) used for the purpose of temporarily incapacitating a person.
    As added by P.L.318-1985, SEC.3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timjoebillybob View Post
    Not quite correct, tasers and stun weapons also require a ltch.
    IC 35-47-8-4
    Applicability of handgun provisions
    Sec. 4. IC 35-47-2 applies to an electronic stun weapon or taser.
    As added by P.L.318-1985, SEC.3.

    IC 35-47-8-1
    "Electronic stun weapon" defined
    Sec. 1. As used in this chapter, "electronic stun weapon" means any mechanism that is:
    (1) designed to emit an electronic, magnetic, or other type of charge that exceeds the equivalency of a five (5) milliamp sixty (60) hertz shock; and
    (2) used for the purpose of temporarily incapacitating a person.

    IC 35-47-8-3
    "Taser" defined
    Sec. 3. As used in this chapter, "taser" means any mechanism that is:
    (1) designed to emit an electronic, magnetic, or other type of charge or shock through the use of a projectile; and
    (2) used for the purpose of temporarily incapacitating a person.
    As added by P.L.318-1985, SEC.3.
    Thanks; I guess I'm rusty on that chapter.

    That does make me think though...Does 35-47-11.1 then void all local laws concerning "Electronic stun weapons" and "tasers"? The reason I ask is because I believe South Bend has a prohibition on one or both. Not that I'd carry one since I have a gun, but it still would be useful to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cce1302 View Post
    Thanks; I guess I'm rusty on that chapter.

    That does make me think though...Does 35-47-11.1 then void all local laws concerning "Electronic stun weapons" and "tasers"? The reason I ask is because I believe South Bend has a prohibition on one or both. Not that I'd carry one since I have a gun, but it still would be useful to know.
    That I have no idea on. Way way over my pay grade. I'm guessing it will be up in the air till their is a test case.

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    Regular Member Titanium_frost's Avatar
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    IMO, the preemption bill (formerly SB292) only applies to firearms. Tazers and stunguns do not meet Indiana's definition of a firearm to my knowledge.

    Why they are included in the LTCH requirements? Got me there too.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Mark 1911's Avatar
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    Your Kentucky permit is valid in Indiana, and Open Carry is legal in Indiana. The only requirement is that you have a valid permit, and Indiana recognizes any valid permit from any state, or from any other country for that matter.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 1911 View Post
    Your Kentucky permit is valid in Indiana, and Open Carry is legal in Indiana. The only requirement is that you have a valid permit, and Indiana recognizes any valid permit from any state, or from any other country for that matter.
    I find this thread interesting...I too was under the impression unlicensed OC was legal in IN. (like it is in just about every western state except commufornia Hum...I have a WA CPL, but never though I would need it in IN....already know I don't need it in KY or PA...been there done that. I've driven through IN before, but I don't think we have ever stopped, no reason to. After 40 years of open carry I am being a bit more cautious about other state's laws, even if I don't plan on stopping in that state.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 1911 View Post
    Your Kentucky permit is valid in Indiana, and Open Carry is legal in Indiana. The only requirement is that you have a valid permit, and Indiana recognizes any valid permit from any state, or from any other country for that matter.
    Thats the thing. My "permit" to OC in KY is called the KY constitution as well as the US constitution. IN said I would be arrested if I OC in IN. Lucky for me KY didnt take a right, convert it to a privilege and then charge me a fee for it.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I find this thread interesting too..I too was under the impression unlicensed OC was legal in IN. (like it is in just about every western state except commufornia Hum...I have a WA CPL, but never though I would need it in IN....already know I don't need it in KY or PA...been there done that. I've driven through IN before, but I don't think we have ever stopped, no reason to. After 40 years of open carry I am being a bit more cautious about other state's laws, even if I don't plan on stopping in that state.
    I thought that too but if you want to exercise your 2nd amendment right in Indiana...............you better pay a little money to them first. If you do have a conceal license then you should be ok in IN...But yes you are correct about OC in KY... We love freedom and we like too share those FREEdoms with all who visit our state. No cover charge required ever...
    Last edited by self preservation; 05-25-2012 at 01:08 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    It's not perfect but at least Indiana offers lifetime issue LTCH.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    I thought that too but if you want to exercise your 2nd amendment right in Indiana...............you better pay a little money to them first. If you do have a conceal license then you should be ok in IN...But yes you are correct about OC in KY... We love freedom and we like too share those FREEdoms with all who visit our state. No cover charge required...
    Well, If you come visit the western states, like mine, WA...don't worry that your nanny permit isn't recognized, unlicensed OC if for anyone and everyone that can legally posses (fed law)

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    If you don't live or work in Indiana, you can't get a LTCH (permit) here... you'll need one from the state you reside in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BGordon42 View Post
    Washington, D.C. is not a state as defined by the government, and therefore is not covered by the Constitution per se. That is the loophole that was used for so long to prevent U.S. citizens from legally owning a handgun if they were a resident of the District.
    That is completely untrue and I have no idea where you heard that.

    D.C. prohibited registration certificates for handguns in 1976... because they could. There was no recognized 2nd amendment right.

    If what you were saying was true then Morton Grove, Oak Park, Winnetka, Evanston, and Chicago would not have been able to ban handgun possession.

    The 4th amendment was upheld in the 1970's in Puerto Rico and last time I checked, Puerto Rico was not, and still is not, a state.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComradeV View Post
    It's not perfect but at least Indiana offers lifetime issue LTCH.
    Ky has a lifetime permit to carry a gun too....Its called the constitution...no charge...
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member Mark 1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Ky has a lifetime permit to carry a gun too....Its called the constitution...no charge...
    SP,

    Although it is legal to OC in KY without a permit, Kentucky is still not a "constitutional carry" state yet. You can OC in KY without a permit, but can not conceal. In Indiana its your choice. I may be an advocate of OC, but I also advocate the right to decide for myself to OC or CC, not the state. I understand there is pending Constitutional Carry legislation in KY introduced by Rep. Mike Harmon, but its still pending, not passed. So as of the present moment, KY still requires their residents to have a permit UNLESS you choose to OC.

    I whole-heartedly agree with you on your comments regarding the constitution. And "Ideally", permits would not be required at all and all there would be reciprocity between all states. However, we unfortunately do not live in an ideal world. The bad guys have been throwing the proverbial monkey wrench of crime into our free society since its inception, and that creates problems for the good guys.

    The nice thing about permits is 1) bad guys can't have one so if someone is carrying, and has a license to carry, it means they have been checked out by the law and deemed to be a "good guy". 2) If you happen to travel to a state that has reciprocity with yours, Indiana is one of them, then a permit makes you legal in the state that you're visiting, which is a very nice thing when your travelling. I have permits from 3 other states besides Indiana, which makes me legal in 37 states. I don't mind paying for that one bit, and I am proud to be a promoter of 2nd Amemdment rights.

    The nice thing about Indiana is that they keep things very simple when it comes to reciprocity, they recognize ALL states permits, just like Kentucky. Yes we unfortunately have to spend a few bucks to get the permit, but we spend money for a lot of things. I wish we didn't have to, but at least we can if we want to.

    Some states that have Constitutional Carry laws will still issue a permit, precisely for their residents who want to carry when traveling to other states. I know it gets in your craw to have to pay the $60 to the state to get the permit, but that's the way it is right now. How much do you spend every year for fishing, or hunting, or motorcycles, or cars, or whatever your hobby might be? A whole lot more that $60, right? So cmon man, break out the wallet and pay the $60. The way I see it, the state will be happy to take your money, and that is one more reason for them to support the 2nd Amendment! Get the permit, and come to Indiana and OC and be a pacesetter. Set the example, help get people used to exercising their constitutional rights. Like they say, freedom is never free. In this case, the $60 is a small investment to make so that our children have a better chance of practicing their rights as Americans in the future. It beats dying on a battlefield somewhere overseas. It is a small sacrifice in comparison, but is still a very important sacrifice for gun rights advocates like ourselves to make for future generations of Americans.

    So yes it will cost you $60 to get the permit from KY, but once you have it, you can OC in Indiana just like in KY. And for those rare occasions when you might freely choose to conceal (I concealed when I took my mother out for Mother's Day for example, because it just takes too much energy to explain my position every time), you would also be able to do that in IN and KY.
    Last edited by Mark 1911; 05-14-2012 at 02:54 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 1911 View Post
    SP,

    Although it is legal to OC in KY without a permit, Kentucky is still not a "constitutional carry" state yet. You can OC in KY without a permit, but can not conceal. In Indiana its your choice. I may be an advocate of OC, but I also advocate the right to decide for myself to OC or CC, not the state. I understand there is pending Constitutional Carry legislation in KY introduced by Rep. Mike Harmon, but its still pending, not passed. So as of the present moment, KY still requires their residents to have a permit UNLESS you choose to OC.

    I whole-heartedly agree with you on your comments regarding the constitution. And "Ideally", permits would not be required at all and all there would be reciprocity between all states. However, we unfortunately do not live in an ideal world. The bad guys have been throwing the proverbial monkey wrench of crime into our free society since its inception, and that creates problems for the good guys.

    The nice thing about permits is 1) bad guys can't have one so if someone is carrying, and has a license to carry, it means they have been checked out by the law and deemed to be a "good guy". 2) If you happen to travel to a state that has reciprocity with yours, Indiana is one of them, then a permit makes you legal in the state that you're visiting, which is a very nice thing when your travelling. I have permits from 3 other states besides Indiana, which makes me legal in 37 states. I don't mind paying for that one bit, and I am proud to be a promoter of 2nd Amemdment rights.

    The nice thing about Indiana is that they keep things very simple when it comes to reciprocity, they recognize ALL states permits, just like Kentucky. Yes we unfortunately have to spend a few bucks to get the permit, but we spend money for a lot of things. I wish we didn't have to, but at least we can if we want to.

    Some states that have Constitutional Carry laws will still issue a permit, precisely for their residents who want to carry when traveling to other states. I know it gets in your craw to have to pay the $60 to the state to get the permit, but that's the way it is right now. How much do you spend every year for fishing, or hunting, or motorcycles, or cars, or whatever your hobby might be? A whole lot more that $60, right? So cmon man, break out the wallet and pay the $60. The way I see it, the state will be happy to take your money, and that is one more reason for them to support the 2nd Amendment! Get the permit, and come to Indiana and OC and be a pacesetter. Set the example, help get people used to exercising their constitutional rights. Like they say, freedom is never free. In this case, the $60 is a small investment to make so that our children have a better chance of practicing their rights as Americans in the future. It beats dying on a battlefield somewhere overseas. It is a small sacrifice in comparison, but is still a very important sacrifice for gun rights advocates like ourselves to make for future generations of Americans.

    So yes it will cost you $60 to get the permit from KY, but once you have it, you can OC in Indiana just like in KY. And for those rare occasions when you might freely choose to conceal (I concealed when I took my mother out for Mother's Day for example, because it just takes too much energy to explain my position every time), you would also be able to do that in IN and KY.
    I just dont think IN should charge for OC...CC I can see... And I agree that we dont live in an idea world. And maybe it is a small price to pay but here we pay nothing to enjoy those rights (as far as OC goes). And when I said constitution I meant the KY constitution as well as the USC. Just wish you could at least OC ANYWHERE in the US without paying a fee....But I also wish I was well endowed and had a million bucks...Just wishful thinking. But like you said, at least we are not a state where no kind of carry is allowed. Between the two evils I would rather pay a fee instead of not having that right at all.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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