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Thread: CC vs OC

  1. #1
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    CC vs OC

    This may be an old debate but I'm curious of your thoughts. I have always OC'd (going to a CCDW class in May but plan to still do a lot of OC) but have often been told by others that CC that they would never OC because it would draw to much attention to them if they were, lets say in a gas station buying smokes and an armed robber came in. Their fear is that they would be killed on site to eliminate any patrons that may defend the gas station. I disagree with this based on these reasons. 1. I know that scum thiefs are just that, scum, and that they could be high on God knows what and not care. But even with them being stupid I would like to think that unless I were in the back of a Brinks truck or in the open vault of Fort Knox were millions upon millions could be stolen, that if an armed robber came into a gas station he wouldnt kill someone OC'ing (I know anything CAN happen) in cold blood to score maybe a couple of hundred bucks at best. IF...IF I were an armed robber and went into a business with the intent on robbing it and saw an OC'er...I would probably just come back latter. Reason being is because I know for a fact that someone in there is armed and I wouldnt want to kill and add a murder charge to myself if I got caught. Plus my intent would be to get the money and get out...not to spend an extra five minutes or more in a gun fight. The 2nd reason I like OC vs CC is that with OC my weapon is real easy to get to. Not fighting a jacket or shirt to draw it but rather a smooth easy draw from the hip...plus like I mentioned..I feel that OC would be a deterient.. With all that said, I have never been an armed robber...I have never talked to an armed robber to see what their view point is on it...I have never been caught up in a robbery...nor have I ever had to draw my weapon for self defense. What do you think?

  2. #2
    Activist Member SigGuy23's Avatar
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    In my opinion there is benifits and negatative things about both. Usually when people tell me what your friend told you. I just tell them there is risks in everything you do in life and The benifits outway the risks as far as I can see. I also tell them it's a risk I'm willing to take. They usually eccept that answer and leave it that.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Absolute bull. CCers sometimes think that we are their bastard cousins that shouldn't have the right to carry. The thing is though, Kentuckians had the right to openly carry since Kentucky became a state, we only received "permission" to carry concealed in my lifetime (96?).

    I do believe that you are correct about it being a deterrent. A lot of people robbing a gas station have already stole things and realized that our current system has almost reached capacity. Murder is something that most robbers would not want as it would bring more heat to them and would add years to their sentence if convicted. Most places experience armed robbery on a semi-regular basis but murders are more rare.

    Also, this "tactical advantage" they have is pure speculation. They may have the option to pull at the right time, but they also allow more time to get spotted and more things to go wrong. Can you imagine getting your gun caught on your shirt in the draw? Those of us who OC aren't without potential problems on the draw and fire, but CC has all of our problems plus more. I can pull and fire faster open carrying faster than I can from concealed and I am guessing I am probably the norm.

    Also, another plus is the easy of carry. I don't have to dress around my gun, I don't have to buy new clothes that fit me and my firearm, I don't have to have an expensive holster just to be comfortable and I don't always have to worry about printing.

    They both have their advantages. It is like debating which one is better a truck or a car.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Regular Member Comm's Avatar
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    "They both have their advantages. It is like debating which one is better a truck or a car".

    I vote for a Truck!

    I too find it easier to OC for just the same reason.. I don't have to dress for the weapon I'm wearing... but I do CC when I go to certain places, like Movies, Church, etc. I have OC in Walmart, Kroger, Gas stations, and I don't know of one instance where people ran out screaming in the streets that a man was carrying a gun.

  5. #5
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    All good points and I thank all of you for sharing. I recently saw a "study" done by CNN or CBS or one of those news groups.(go to youtube and type in Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world) The study was to see how effective CC was ( I am for CC and plan to CC and OC) I think they had some good points but it was kinda bias because they took Veteran LEO's, maybe even some of them being on teams such as SWAT or Emergency response teams and put them up against "regular joes". None of the CC'ers did good. They failed to unholster their weapon or got them hung in their shirts, etc. Would have been intersted in a "regular joe" vs "regular joe" seting instead of using veteran LEO. Some good points that the study did show is stance, reaction time etc. Wish I could find a course that taught true self defense using a firearm. Such as moving targets, shooting from a prone or supine position, fire being returned on you and things to that nature. CCDW teaches a lot but honestly shooting a target 21 feet away that isnt moving or posing a threat and is allowing you to take your sweet ass time to think about your shot, line up your shot, etc may not be enough.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    All good points and I thank all of you for sharing. I recently saw a "study" done by CNN or CBS or one of those news groups.(go to youtube and type in Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world) The study was to see how effective CC was ( I am for CC and plan to CC and OC) I think they had some good points but it was kinda bias because they took Veteran LEO's, maybe even some of them being on teams such as SWAT or Emergency response teams and put them up against "regular joes". None of the CC'ers did good. They failed to unholster their weapon or got them hung in their shirts, etc. Would have been intersted in a "regular joe" vs "regular joe" seting instead of using veteran LEO. Some good points that the study did show is stance, reaction time etc. Wish I could find a course that taught true self defense using a firearm. Such as moving targets, shooting from a prone or supine position, fire being returned on you and things to that nature. CCDW teaches a lot but honestly shooting a target 21 feet away that isnt moving or posing a threat and is allowing you to take your sweet ass time to think about your shot, line up your shot, etc may not be enough.
    Don't even get me started on how unrealistic that video is.
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  7. #7
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Don't even get me started on how unrealistic that video is.
    I agree. It did look like a bunch of BS to me too. It got way more "dis-likes" than it did "like". But I still would like to see a defensive class offered in my area. I dont think shooting 1000 rounds through a target standing still really prepares you for real life situations. And maybe nothing will but more knowledge coulndnt hurt.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    I do shooting drills. Shoot while moving, shoot while on your back, shoot from the sitting position, strong hand/weak hand kind of things. I know it does not compare to a defensive shoot but it helps.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Activist Member SigGuy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    I agree. It did look like a bunch of BS to me too. It got way more "dis-likes" than it did "like". But I still would like to see a defensive class offered in my area. I dont think shooting 1000 rounds through a target standing still really prepares you for real life situations. And maybe nothing will but more knowledge coulndnt hurt.
    You should sign up for IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association.) That's actually what they do. They provide real world shoot and move scenarios. As far as the shooting back stuff. I'm sure you can find some place the does simmunition training.
    Last edited by SigGuy23; 04-10-2012 at 12:10 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comm View Post
    "They both have their advantages. It is like debating which one is better a truck or a car".

    I vote for a Truck!

    I too find it easier to OC for just the same reason.. I don't have to dress for the weapon I'm wearing... but I do CC when I go to certain places, like Movies, Church, etc. I have OC in Walmart, Kroger, Gas stations, and I don't know of one instance where people ran out screaming in the streets that a man was carrying a gun.
    Why settle for a truck OR a car?

    I vote for Jeep. The best of both worlds~ <3
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    In all my years, I have yet to be in a gas station while it was being robbed, so I don't know if my gun was a deterrent or if Im just lucky and only go to gas stations that ban robbery.

    OC and CC both have their place.

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    I only OC at the moment because I haven't yet gotten to take the class, but I will be taking it at the end of the month.

    There are deffinantly times when I would like to CC, here and there at work church and a few other places where I usually leave my gun in the truck.

    I have only been OC'ing for a month or two but I hate pulling it off my belt when I get to work and anywhere else. Makes me feel naked lol my new holster really makes it comfortable to keep it one from when I get out of bed to when I get back in.

  13. #13
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    I'm for CC but I also support OC. The only thing I dont like about OC is at times I feel I draw attention to myself and feel that people look at me like I have 2 heads or something. May just all be in my mind. Like someone said, Ky residents have been free to OC since our state was formed. Wasnt until 1996 that we could CC. I guess because of that you dont see as much open carry as you use to, so maybe people dont view it as normal anymore. But all the same I plan to still OC where I can..

  14. #14
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    At Eastern KY's M&G there were SIX of us openly carrying guns. I looked around looking for the party when I first arrived and couldn't find anyone, so I quietly asked one of the waitresses if she knew where they were sitting. She didn't have a clue anyone was carrying a gun in there, and I was standing there talking to her while carrying. If it wasn't for one of neuroblades friends over hearing the conversation then I wouldn't have known where to sit.

    The only time anyone consistently notices my firearm is when my GF is carrying too. She is very small so I guess the gun sticks out like a soar thumb. They get to noticing her and then notice mine. I see when most people notice my gun, and it doesn't happen too often.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  15. #15
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    I have been carrying a handgun for many years. I cannot find a way that is better than any other. I like open carry because of the ease of carry. I do not have to worry about a shirt or a coat and it is just easier. I also conceal carry in instances that open carry may not be appropriate, such as church, funeral, etc. That being said, I have never been taught that conceal carry is an advantage over open carry or open is an advantage over concealed. I do know that a person about to rob a store, observes someone entering carrying a handgun, may think twice before going in. Even the bad guys do not want a shootout.
    Speed is fine
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  16. #16
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    At Eastern KY's M&G there were SIX of us openly carrying guns. I looked around looking for the party when I first arrived and couldn't find anyone, so I quietly asked one of the waitresses if she knew where they were sitting. She didn't have a clue anyone was carrying a gun in there, and I was standing there talking to her while carrying. If it wasn't for one of neuroblades friends over hearing the conversation then I wouldn't have known where to sit.

    The only time anyone consistently notices my firearm is when my GF is carrying too. She is very small so I guess the gun sticks out like a soar thumb. They get to noticing her and then notice mine. I see when most people notice my gun, and it doesn't happen too often.
    Knock on wood but I have never had a problem OC'ing. One time at lowes an employee ask me if I was a lawman after seeing my gun. He didnt harrass or question any further when I said no, just a law abiding citizen with a gun. I think he was just more curious than anything. But probably most the time people probably dont even see it. But like you said, when my wife packs hers it a little more visiable due to her small size and draws attention to me (plus its a pink .380..I carry a Glock .40, 23 model)
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    @isaac, ya know, that makes me think of something. Everyone at the Lexington M&G should wear prightly coloured shirts so I done stand like a fool at the front door looking around for people OC'ing.

    Something along the lines of summer and spring, like a nice mellow Sea green, or a gentle aqua blue!~
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  18. #18
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Drake, I don't think I can attend the M&G in lexington but I am going to guess that your idea will go over like a lead balloon. I usually dress in blue jeans and not so bright T-shirts and I am guessing I am not very different than most on this forum.

    Also (directed at SP but is an open invitation to anyone) we will be having an M&G in ashland the 21(?) if anyone wants to join.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    I prefer OC over CC due to the fact that a perp may think twice before he/she commits a crime if they know someone is carrying.

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  20. #20
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Drake, I don't think I can attend the M&G in lexington but I am going to guess that your idea will go over like a lead balloon. I usually dress in blue jeans and not so bright T-shirts and I am guessing I am not very different than most on this forum.

    Also (directed at SP but is an open invitation to anyone) we will be having an M&G in ashland the 21(?) if anyone wants to join.
    Thanks for the invite...hope I can make it. Where is it?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  21. #21
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Thanks for the invite...hope I can make it. Where is it?
    Golden Corral in Ashland. It probably will be around noon.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...Meet-amp-Greet
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  22. #22
    Regular Member BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    I OC and have never had any problems with it.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Thanks for the invite...hope I can make it. Where is it?
    There will be two different OC M&G's going on over the next couple of weeks actually. There will be one in Lexington at Golden Corral on April 14th at 12 noon, I think it was. And then there will one in Ashalnd at Golden Corral on April 21st at 12 noon.

    Maybe we could get Golden Corral to sponsor the OC Meet & Greets! *LOL*
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  24. #24
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    If Reference to OC Versus CC.

    As has been stated here already, there are positives & negatives to each form of carry. This is due to the types of people we might happen to encounter while doing either. I'm not talking about the innocents that you will obviously encounter, they're not a problem that we really have to worry about after all.

    There are two types that you DO have you worry about though and BOTH are Bad Guys:

    Group #1 - The average "run of the mill" thief. This person just wants to get in, get the money & get the h*ll out with as little problems as possible, if any!
    Group #2 - The hardened criminal. This person wants what they want and they DO NOT care about who or what they have to do to get it. This group is definitely not above killing anyone to achieve their desired goal!

    OC will almost always discourage Group #1 from they desired goal as they don't want to have to face down someone that could put an end to their existence, they just want to get the money or goods and get away as quick as possible.

    OC will NOT discourage Group #2, in fact by virtue of someone OC'ing and not being situationally aware of their surroundings, it can and very possible will only serve to aid them with additional access to a weapon!

    CC will keep you "undercover", for lack of a better direct term, from anyone else knowing that you're carrying. But with CC, just like with OC, it requires you to be better trained to deploy your chosen weapon as quickly as you possibly can and to then be able to carry through in using it! Let's face facts, the reason criminals have the upper hand is because they do not have to follow the law and they carry illegally concealed in the majority of cases! NO ONE knows who they are, what their intentions are or even that they're carrying until it's too late for the average citizen. CC allows the law abiding citizen a measure of security that the OC'er doesn't have, it also allows the CC'er to be able to engage the criminal on their own grounds if taken by surprise.

    Me personally, I carry in both OC & CC modes, depending upon where I'm going, what I'm doing and with whom I might be encountering.

    There is one very interesting fact though, in all my years working in Florida, I NEVER encountered a bad guy, when arrested, that was carrying in a holster!
    Last edited by neuroblades; 04-11-2012 at 12:31 AM.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

  25. #25
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    My wardrobe is scant in those colors. You'll have to settle for brown, white or blue with me.
    Ooooh~ Blue is always a good option for spring, to living the mood, and to bring out one's natural facial and eye colour~ and with the weather going to be warm, it's a nice light colour to keep you cool~ ^~^
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
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