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Unofficial: NM will be dropping reciprocity with AZ

randian

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Arizona will be dropped as soon as they get around to looking the laws over and sending a letter to make it official.

Arizona violates 3 rules of New Mexico statute 29-19-12E (reciprocity):
AZ gives permits to legally resident aliens
AZ doesn't require classroom training
AZ doesn't require live-fire training
 

acmariner99

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Baloney!!! To get an Arizona permit, you have to take a class that includes live fire training. Where does new Mexico think these don't apply? There is no permit requirement to carry in Arizona, but there are requirements that must be met if a person still wants a permit!
 

Sonora Rebel

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This is bogus information... spread by someone who doesn't know beans (as per usual). LINK?
 
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Sonora Rebel

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http://www.dps.nm.org/index.php/nm-concealed-carry/reciprocity-agreements/

New Mexico statute 29-19-12E requires that in order for a state to be recognized by NM, their provisions have to be “at least as stringent or substantially similar” to New Mexico. NMDPS has generally found six things that make a state substantially different from New Mexico, and therefore would disqualify that state from being recognized:

Permits issued locally rather than by the state;
No fingerprint-based background check;
Permits issued to persons under 21 years of age;
Permits issued to resident aliens; What are the requirements necessary to obtain an Arizona CCW Permit? - Must be a United States citizen or permanent resident alien. No classroom (static) training required;
No live-fire (dynamic) training required.

As we continue our audit and make changes accordingly, this page will be updated to reflect the most current information.

The State of New Mexico has written reciprocity agreements or acknowledgements in place with Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas and West Virginia. For New Mexico concealed carry permit holders traveling to other states, please see the following websites for information concerning your privilege to carry concealed in these states:


The resident alien provision is troubling. It's only for CCW anyway. Open Carry is a right recognzed in New Mexico (by law)... altho some of their metro type city
cops seem to be totally ignorant of that.
 

BobF

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No Rumor

Arizona will be dropped as soon as they get around to looking the laws over and sending a letter to make it official.

Arizona violates 3 rules of New Mexico statute 29-19-12E (reciprocity):
AZ gives permits to legally resident aliens
AZ doesn't require classroom training
AZ doesn't require live-fire training

This is no rumor. I have been in contact via e-mails with Mr. Bill Hubbard, NM Director of Public Safety, Special Investigations Division:

Bill Hubbard

Director

New Mexico Department of Public Safety

Special Investigations Division

6301 Indian School Rd. NE, Suite 310

Albuquerque, NM 87110

(505)841-8053

Bill.Hubbard@state.nm.us

After several e-mails back and forth Bill stated that Arizona CCW permits are not honored in NM because Arizona does not meet all of the NM requirements. I told him that he should have the website, which he said he was the Manger of, corrected immediately to reflect the right information. This is a serious matter, to me, and a lot of others, as I was going to visit NM very soon and thought that my Arizona permit was OK in NM per their Official CCW website. I would have been in violation of NM laws and, I presume, subject to arrest. Needless to say I will NOT be visiting NM until they change their CCW laws. Bob.

P.S. I have also contacted the Arizona CCW unit by e-mail to mention the above and that their website does not show that there is no reciprocity with NM.
Update: Today I was advised that the Arizona CCW Unit has contacted the NM CCW Unit and were told that NM no longer has reciprocity with Arizona permits. They said the Arizona website will be corrected ASAP.

As of 4/26/12 the Arizona CCW site (http://www.azdps.gov/services/concealed_weapons/) now states "As of April 26,2012 New Mexico will no longer recognize Arizona concealed weapons permits as valid in their state". They also updated their reciprocity list to show no reciprocity with NM. Thanks to the GREAT Arizona CCW Unit for updating their site. After hearing by e-mail how great a job the Director of the NM CCW Unit was doing his job, they have not updated their website at all! Bob.
 
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AH.74

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Baloney!!! To get an Arizona permit, you have to take a class that includes live fire training. Where does new Mexico think these don't apply? There is no permit requirement to carry in Arizona, but there are requirements that must be met if a person still wants a permit!

There is no longer a class and live fire requirement. There was when I got my AZ license in September of 2010 but things have changed since last year. I spoke with the AZ DPS directly to confirm this.


Needless to say I will NOT be visiting NM until they change their CCW laws. Bob.

And this is one specific reason I mentioned elsewhere why NM is shooting itself in the foot. I have seen this exact sentiment expressed by others as well. NM is supposed to be encouraging visitation, not giving people more reasons to stay away.

There is NOTHING good about this at all. It stinks.
 
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Roy V

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Arizona will be dropped as soon as they get around to looking the laws over and sending a letter to make it official.

Arizona violates 3 rules of New Mexico statute 29-19-12E (reciprocity):
AZ gives permits to legally resident aliens
AZ doesn't require classroom training
AZ doesn't require live-fire training

I can vouch for violation of rule 3 - I used my Utah permit as "proof of training" to obtain my AZ permit and Utah does not require live-fire training.

I hope NM gets their site updated to reflect this REAL FAST!!!
 
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Sonora Rebel

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Inasmuch as Open Carry has been recognized in New Mexico w/o permit, training or live fire proficiency since inception... and inasmuch as New Mexico never had its own CCW permit until 2004... I don't see what their problem is? Is one any less armed in either mode of carry? If anything, NM would be better served by dropping this 'permit for fee' nonsense and adopting Constitutional Carry.
 

acmariner99

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Inasmuch as Open Carry has been recognized in New Mexico w/o permit, training or live fire proficiency since inception... and inasmuch as New Mexico never had its own CCW permit until 2004... I don't see what their problem is? Is one any less armed in either mode of carry? If anything, NM would be better served by dropping this 'permit for fee' nonsense and adopting Constitutional Carry.

Unfortunately Sonora, NM isn't as friendly to Open Carry as one might think. State Parks are off limits to carry of any kind, you must carry concealed at a minimum where alcohol is present (requiring a valid CWP) -- even for off premises consumption. So gas stations, wal-marts, convenience stores -- places travelers would frequent -- many of them are off limits to open carry. Travelers have to keep their wits about them in NM as it is, it would be a lot harder if they dropped AZ's permit.

And while I agree NM should adopt Constitutional Carry -- their regs in regards to alcohol being present would more than likely stand - similar to what AZ currently requires. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that is how it would likely proceed.
 
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Sonora Rebel

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http://www.azdps.gov/Services/Concealed_Weapons/Permits/Obtain/

Eligibility
Applicants must:

be a resident of this state or a United States citizen;
be twenty-one years of age or older;
not be under indictment for a felony offense;
not be convicted of a felony offense, unless the conviction has been expunged, set aside, vacated or pardoned, or the individuals right to possess firearms has be restored AND the individual must not be a prohibited possessor under state or federal law.
not suffer from mental illness and been adjudicated mentally incompetent or committed to a mental institution;
not be unlawfully present in the United States;
complete a firearms safety training program pursuant to ARS §13-3112.N.

http://www.azdps.gov/Links/ARS/?l=13/03112.htm
ARS §13-3112.N. (N.) An applicant shall demonstrate competence with a firearm through any of the following:

1. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class that is available to the general public, that is offered by a law enforcement agency, a junior college, a college or a private or public institution, academy, organization or firearms training school and that is approved by the department of public safety or that uses instructors who are certified by the national rifle association.

2. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Arizona game and fish department or a similar agency of another state.

3. Completion of any national rifle association firearms safety or training course.

4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class that is offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies or other divisions or subdivisions of law enforcement or security enforcement and that is approved by the department of public safety.

5. Evidence of current military service or proof of honorable discharge or general discharge under honorable conditions from the United States armed forces.

6. A valid current or expired concealed weapon, firearm or handgun permit or license that is issued by another state or a political subdivision of another state and that has a training or testing requirement for initial issuance.

7. Completion of any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualification to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties.

8. Completion of any other firearms safety or training course or class that is conducted by a department of public safety approved or national rifle association certified firearms instructor.

As an aside: I'd already completed #5 & 7 but still had to complete #1 to get the AZ CWP. At any rate... I can't figure NM's problem.
 

AH.74

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As I've mentioned over in the NM forum, NM's problem (IMO) is that they're practicing job justification rather than serving the people as they wish to be served and should be served. They're more concerned with making seemingly important decisions to keep us all safe than realizing their new policy enforcement will have severely negative repercussions. Restricting other state residents from being able to carry here makes no sense and has no basis in actual facts regarding safety in the real world. It is their lofty idealization, nothing more.

I do not think this state will be able to consider constitutional carry- too many people would fear losing their jobs.
 

BobF

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See my message above that I have updated today with the latest info. BobF.
 

Roy V

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See my message above that I have updated today with the latest info. BobF.



Thanks for the update Bob, much appreciated! Someone/we should probably let usacarry.com know about the change.

Edit: Handgunlaw.us has been notified and updated. I exchanged a few e-mails with Gary, the guy who runs the site - what a great guy :)
 
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mrjam2jab

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This is no rumor. I have been in contact via e-mails with Mr. Bill Hubbard, NM Director of Public Safety, Special Investigations Division:



After several e-mails back and forth Bill stated that Arizona CCW permits are not honored in NM because Arizona does not meet all of the NM requirements.

.



Did he say HOW AZ doesn't meet the NM requirements? Cuz the 3 reasons listed above are in AZ law.
 

BobF

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Did he say HOW AZ doesn't meet the NM requirements? Cuz the 3 reasons listed above are in AZ law.

He did not actually state the reasons why NM rejected Arizona reciprocity. He referred to his requirements:
New Mexico statute 29-19-12E requires that in order for a state to be recognized by NM, their provisions have to be “at least as stringent or substantially similar” to New Mexico. NMDPS has generally found six things that make a state substantially different from New Mexico, and therefore would disqualify that state from being recognized:

1. Permits issued locally rather than by the state;

2. No fingerprint-based background check;

3. Permits issued to persons under 21 years of age;

4. Permits issued to resident aliens;

5. No classroom (static) training required;

6. No live-fire (dynamic) training required.

I would assume that it is:

Permits issued to resident aliens; (Arizona does issue to legal resident aliens)

No classroom (static) training required; (No formal training in Arizona is now required. You can use other safety training now. When I got my permit in-state training was required)

No live-fire (dynamic) training required. (No live firing in Arizona is now required. You can use other safety training now. When I got my permit in-state live fire was required)

It looks like Arizona has loosened the requirements some by eliminating in-state training and live firing to make it easier for some to obtain an Arizona CCW. The issue of Arizona issuing to legal resident non-citizens can be debated as other states have lost in this regard when taken to court. Bob.
 
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