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Accidental discharge of my husband’s Glock 19 - Your help needed

ProShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,663
Location
www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
Sometime over the last forty years I must have missed the class where instructions were given on how to clear a firearm in a motor vehicle. I've been in several situations as an EMS provider where that was necessary due to a traffic crash. Not once was the firearm cleared inside a motor vehicle. I look at a motor vehicle as being many hazards. The last thing that I would want to do is to attempt to clear a firearm inside of a motor vehicle or pointing the firearm in the direction of a motor vehicle or any type of structure.

I have no issue with someone clearing a firearm while inside their vehicle. The key here is to understand your manual of arms. If you do not know 100% how to handle a firearm safely and how to clear it correctly, then the best course of action is to not handle it at all. I can make a best guess by reading posts here how the round ended up in the chamber...a simple reversal or operations.

Perhaps one of our worthy firearm instructors could offer a reduced price firearm safety class too.

1) Look
2) Feel
3) Look again

I'm sure some of my prior students know what I mean by that. There's a freebie. No cost.
 

paramedic70002

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
1,440
Location
Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
Accidents...In fact I make a living from people being this way...

Me too! Funny, a few years ago the super secret squirrel agency that makes the official medical codes for injury and disease decided that MVAs (Motor Vehicle Accidents) were to be reclassified as MVCs (Motor Vehicle Collisions).

More funny: I wonder what would be the unintended consequences of having a law against handling a firearm or removing it from it's holster in public (with certain exemptions like self defense, at police order, etc.)? Certainly, some laws and rules would need to be changed, or a lot more people would be going about with unloaded guns.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Me too! Funny, a few years ago the super secret squirrel agency that makes the official medical codes for injury and disease decided that MVAs (Motor Vehicle Accidents) were to be reclassified as MVCs (Motor Vehicle Collisions).

More funny: I wonder what would be the unintended consequences of having a law against handling a firearm or removing it from it's holster in public (with certain exemptions like self defense, at police order, etc.)? Certainly, some laws and rules would need to be changed, or a lot more people would be going about with unloaded guns.

Ssssh, Lori is listening :uhoh:
 

Doc_Smith

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
52
Location
Newport News
No I never said anything about anyone not owning a gun. No matter what the device is you need training or just good old experience to become good with it.

Since she was going to a range might it be safe to assume that she was trying to become more expierenced with the weapon? Should she be punished for making every effort to follow the law to the letter?

I have seen weapons discharge without ever pulling the trigger so yes accidents do happen. It's not due to negligence or lack of expierence or familiarity. And it's not like she had the intention of blowing a hole in her own van. Or to harm herself or anyone else. Tell her not to do it again. Hell make her take a court ordered weapons safety class. But don't charge her with a crime
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Since she was going to a range might it be safe to assume that she was trying to become more expierenced with the weapon? Should she be punished for making every effort to follow the law to the letter?

I have seen weapons discharge without ever pulling the trigger so yes accidents do happen. It's not due to negligence or lack of expierence or familiarity. And it's not like she had the intention of blowing a hole in her own van. Or to harm herself or anyone else. Tell her not to do it again. Hell make her take a court ordered weapons safety class. But don't charge her with a crime

You can't have one w/o the other.

I agree with the latter (don't charge) - no harm, no foul, should have been no reason to involve the courts.
 

ryan7068

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2011
Messages
185
Location
Chesapeake, VA
The miracle of a semi-automatic!

Growing up in a country area of California, there was no shortage of places to shoot. One day my inexperienced father purchased a hundgun and we went shooting out in the middle of nowhere. He knew just enough to get it loaded and fire it and he went through one magazine and we headed home. While headed home he kept inquiring about there possibly being a round still in the chamber. So, not knowing how to check, he pointed it out the window and pulled the trigger. Boom!!! There was one in the chamber. Thankfully he didnt swirve off of the road and the bullet went out the window. We were both deaf for a few minutes.

In any case, I never handled a firearm I wasn't familiar with and I never allow someone to handle one of mine without talking them throught the operation and making sure they know it well. Even if it means they feel kind of silly. Id rather feel silly for not knowing and ask, than hurt someone else or myself.

**Just goes to show: There is no way in heck that mistake will be made twice.**
 

Fenris

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
182
Location
, ,
Before the laws changed I had to unload often before going on school grounds then chamber and reload when off grounds afterwards. Now about the only time I have to do the process is IRONICALLY going into gun shows. I choose to unload in the car rather than going unarmed from my house to the gun show. I suppose it may be safer to unchamber a round at home and simply remove the magazine at the gun show but then you get into the argument that an unloaded/chambered gun is about as effective as a hammer if your arm isn't free to rack the slide.

^^^ This.

You saved me the trouble of typing all of that. I concur 100%.

A couple of other notes.

Virginia Arms is not a range. It is a gun store. And a damn good gun store at that.

Carrying a loaded gun is fine CC or OC but it must remain holstered.

Virginia Arms also sells guns on consignment. In order to inspect a gun it must be unloaded. But don't do it in the store.

If she were taking the gun to sell because her husband was unable to come, she might not have realized that the gun needed to be unloaded. If she then returned to the car to unload a gun with which she was unfamiliar, and had an discharge despite her efforts to be safe, I'm not sure I would call that negligent.

I have been in tough economic situations myself. And have great sympathy for anyone who has to sell their guns for food, rent, medical bills, or whatever. I'm not saying that was the case here. Having to fight criminal charges certainly wouldn't help.
 
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love4guns

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
167
Location
Lynchburg
Dan Hawes

I had the pleasure of speaking with Dan Hawes on the phone about my situation last fall. The man is a brilliant attorney and will most likely win the case......Good Luck to you!!
 

clydes1961

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
Messages
14
Location
Virginia Beach
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user

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,516
Location
Northern Piedmont
Thank you, thank you... thank you kindly... (from "Amahl and the Night Visitors")

Now quoting Frank Oz' character from "Trading Places", "It's an OP-era."

Anyway, I've started getting antiquated forms of paper-based currency transfer in the post office box. It's a good start (sorta like the old joke, "What do you call ten thousand lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?").

I am going to be doing this under the auspices of the new nonprofit law firm I'm setting up, "Citizens' Defense Rights Institute". That doesn't make contributions tax-deductible, as there has been no application to the IRS for tax-exempt status yet.

It won't matter how the checks are written, whether to "Virginia Legal Defense" or to "Citizens' Defense Rights Institute" (either may be abbreviated as long as the bank can tell who the payee is supposed to be).

I'm pretty confident in the legal aspects of the young lady's case. It is my personal opinion, based on recent cases I've been asked to work on or consult about, that some police departments are using existing laws to enforce de-facto policies against gun ownership; I think this is one of those cases. They use any excuse they can (and all they need is probable cause, not actual guilt) to confiscate guns. I think this is a violation of the much-discussed section 15.2-915. I'm about to file such a case in Richmond; we'll see how that works, but this may be the follow-on.

Thanks, again, for all your support.
 

luv_jeeps

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
136
Location
Thornton, Colorado, USA
I just sent 50 to VCDL today, so I'll have to wait a couple of weeks.....so the Wifey doesn't get on me too much. LOL.
I'll send something along soon, though.
 

swrichmond

New member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
6
Location
RIchmond
I would be curious to learn if the reason you were clearing the firearm was that the store policy required it. I have a pet pieve that any place requires anyone to unload a gun before bringing it into a store. The more you handle/cycle a gun the more opportunity for something to go wrong. If it was left properly holstered this AD/ND never would have happened. On the other hand if the gun was being brought in for maintenance, to sell, or trying on holsters, clearing it would have been propper etiquette.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you "Colonial Shooting Academy," where their policy as it was explained to me is that all firearms, including those being carried concealed, must be unloaded before being brought into the shop. So as far as I can tell this means, quite literally, that one is offered a choice: be known to be carrying valuables in the parking lot which you are also known to not be able to defend, OR risk a clearing incident inside the vestibule of the shop or further inside the shop in their "clearing area," OR not go to the place at all. Requests for written clarification of this policy and a specific detailed entry procedure have been sought to no avail.

When one is walking across the parking lot of the place with a bag, it's fairly obvious what one is carrying, isn't it?

If an accidental discharge is likely to result in a criminal charge, then the choice is being made for us.
 

mk4

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2011
Messages
548
Location
VA
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you "Colonial Shooting Academy," where their policy as it was explained to me is that all firearms, including those being carried concealed, must be unloaded before being brought into the shop. So as far as I can tell this means, quite literally, that one is offered a choice: be known to be carrying valuables in the parking lot which you are also known to not be able to defend, OR risk a clearing incident inside the vestibule of the shop or further inside the shop in their "clearing area," OR not go to the place at all. Requests for written clarification of this policy and a specific detailed entry procedure have been sought to no avail.

When one is walking across the parking lot of the place with a bag, it's fairly obvious what one is carrying, isn't it?

If an accidental discharge is likely to result in a criminal charge, then the choice is being made for us.

welcome to ocdo va, sw.

you might like to check out: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...t-the-new-Colonial-shooting-range-in-Richmond
lots of good discussion on csa and their "odd" policies. even some csa reps joining in attempting to clarify. :rolleyes:
 

45acpForMe

Newbie
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
Yorktown, Virginia, USA
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you "Colonial Shooting Academy," where their policy as it was explained to me is that all firearms, including those being carried concealed, must be unloaded before being brought into the shop. So as far as I can tell this means, quite literally, that one is offered a choice: be known to be carrying valuables in the parking lot which you are also known to not be able to defend, OR risk a clearing incident inside the vestibule of the shop or further inside the shop in their "clearing area," OR not go to the place at all. Requests for written clarification of this policy and a specific detailed entry procedure have been sought to no avail.

When one is walking across the parking lot of the place with a bag, it's fairly obvious what one is carrying, isn't it?

If an accidental discharge is likely to result in a criminal charge, then the choice is being made for us.

My choice is in red.
 

PWC_Glock

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
78
Location
PWC, Virginia, USA
Will donate next paycheck

I would be curious to learn if the reason you were clearing the firearm was that the store policy required it. I have a pet pieve that any place requires anyone to unload a gun before bringing it into a store. The more you handle/cycle a gun the more opportunity for something to go wrong. If it was left properly holstered this AD/ND never would have happened. On the other hand if the gun was being brought in for maintenance, to sell, or trying on holsters, clearing it would have been propper etiquette.


I will not speak about VA Arms Management Policy since my only ties to VA ARMS is as a customer since 2000.

That said the only time I was asked to unload/clear my weapon at VA ARMS is when I purchased some night sights from them, and they offered to install them at the time of purchase which I did not expect but agreed to have done.

The owner (Bernie) escorted me to a back room so I could clear my weapon and turn it over to the gunsmith to have the new sights installed. That was about 5 years ago and the only time I was asked (in this case completely understandable) to clear my weapon at VA ARMS.

75% of my firearms have been purchased from VA ARMS and can not recommend them enough.

Back on topic...I will send a donation to User in the near future.
 
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