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Thread: if you have no actual address can you have a CPL?

  1. #1
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    if you have no actual address can you have a CPL?

    This question was asked of me. Can he have a CPL if he has no actual address. He has a Po Box on his drivers license, but due to medical and financial problems stays with different family members for a month here and with another family member at another address in the same area, and some times a friends place.

    How would someone with this issue get a CPL?

    To be honest I was stumped, because I never thought about anyone having his problems or address issue. It is legal to have a PO Box on a drivers license so why not a PO Box on a CPL?

    It also occurred to me many retired people sell their homes and travel in Motor Homes and have no physical address other than a PO Box...
    Last edited by alphamale; 04-11-2012 at 12:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    I don't see why not. Here's the MSPs synopsis of the CPL requirments.

    No mention of needing a fixed physical address.

    http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7...0926--,00.html
    Concealed Pistol License Requirements
    A. State Requirements
    Applicants for a Michigan Concealed Pistol License must:

    1. Be at least 21 years of age

    2. Be a citizen of the United States or an immigrant alien lawfully admitted
    into the United States

    3. Be a resident of the State of Michigan for at least 6 months prior to
    application. An applicant is a state resident if one of the following
    applies:



    • The applicant possesses a valid, lawfully obtained Michigan driver's
      license or state identification card

    • The applicant is lawfully registered to vote in Michigan

    • The applicant is on active duty status with the United States Armed Forces
      and stationed outside of Michigan, but Michigan is the home of record

    • The applicant is on active duty status with the United States Armed Forces
      and is permanently stationed in Michigan, but the home of record is another
      state


    Note: The 6-month residency requirement may be waived by the
    concealed pistol licensing board for new residents licensed by another
    state.


    4. Have successfully completed a pistol safety training course

    5. Not be subject to any of the following:



    • An order requiring involuntary hospitalization or alternative
      treatment

    • An order finding legal incapacitation

    • A finding of not guilty by reason of insanity


    6. Not be subject to a conditional bond release prohibiting purchase or
    possession of a firearm

    7. Not be subject to a personal protection order

    8. Not be prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling,
    purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under MCL
    750.224f

    9. Have never been convicted of a felony in Michigan or elsewhere

    10. Have no felony charge pending in Michigan or elsewhere

    11. Have not been dishonorably discharged from the United States Armed
    Forces

    12. Have not been convicted of one of the following misdemeanors in the 8
    years immediately preceding the date of application:



    • Failing to stop when involved in a personal injury accident, MCL
      257.617a

    • Operating while intoxicated, second offense, MCL 257.625(9)(b)

    • Drunk driving, commercial vehicle, MCL 257.625m(4)

    • Reckless driving, MCL 257.626

    • Driving while license suspended or revoked, second or subsequent offense,
      MCL 257.904

    • Operating aircraft while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a
      controlled substance with prior conviction, MCL 259.185

    • Hindering or obstructing certain persons performing official weights and
      measures duties, MCL 290.629

    • Hindering, obstructing, assaulting, or committing bodily injury upon
      director or authorized representative, MCL 290.650

    • Operating an ORV under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a controlled
      substance, second or subsequent offense, MCL 324.81134(5)-(6)

    • Operating a snowmobile under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a
      controlled substance, second or subsequent offense, MCL 324.82127 punishable
      under section MCL 324.82128(1)(b) or (c)

    • Operating a vessel under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a
      controlled substance, second or subsequent offense, MCL 324.80176 punishable
      under MCL 324.80177(1)(b)

    • Possessing a controlled substance, controlled substance analogue, or
      prescription form, MCL 333.7403.

    • Operating a locomotive under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a
      controlled substance, or while visibly impaired, MCL 462.353(4)

    • Displaying sexually explicit matter to minors, MCL 722.677

    • Assault or domestic assault, MCL 750.81

    • Aggravated assault or aggravated domestic assault, MCL 750.81a

    • Breaking and entering or entering without breaking, MCL 750.115

    • Fourth-degree child abuse, MCL 750.136b

    • Accosting, enticing, or soliciting a child for immoral purposes, MCL
      750.145a

    • Vulnerable adult abuse, MCL 750.145n

    • Solicitation to commit a felony, MCL 750.157b

    • Impersonating a peace officer or medical examiner, MCL 750.215

    • Illegal sale of a firearm or ammunition, MCL 750.223

    • Illegal use or sale of a self-defense spray, MCL 750.224d

    • Sale or possession of a switchblade, MCL 750.226a

    • Improper transportation of a loaded firearm, MCL 750.227c

    • Failure to have a pistol inspected, MCL 750.228

    • Accepting a pistol in pawn, MCL 750.229

    • Failure to register the purchase of a firearm or a firearm component, MCL
      750.232

    • Improperly obtaining a pistol, making a false statement on an application
      to purchase a pistol, or using false identification to purchase a pistol, MCL
      750.232a

    • Intentionally aiming a firearm without malice, MCL 750.233

    • Intentionally discharging a firearm aimed without malice, MCL 750.234

    • Possessing a firearm on prohibited premises, MCL 750.234d

    • Brandishing a firearm in public, MCL 750.234e

    • Possession of a firearm by an individual less than 18 years of age, MCL
      750.234f

    • Intentionally discharging a firearm aimed without malice causing injury,
      MCL 750.235

    • Parent of a minor who possessed a firearm in a weapon-free school zone, MCL
      750.235a

    • Setting a spring gun or other device, MCL 750.236

    • Possessing a firearm while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a
      drug, MCL 750.237

    • Weapon-free school zone violation, MCL 750.237a

    • Indecent exposure, MCL 750.335a

    • Stalking, MCL 750.411h

    • Fourth-degree criminal sexual conduct, MCL 750.520e

    • Reckless, careless, or negligent use of a firearm resulting in injury or
      death, MCL 752.861

    • Careless, reckless, or negligent use of a firearm resulting in property
      damage, MCL 752.862

    • Reckless discharge of a firearm, MCL 752.863a


    Note: The applicant must not have violated a law of the United
    States, another state, or a local unit of government of this state or another
    state substantially corresponding to a violation described above.


    13. Have not been convicted of one of the following misdemeanors in the 3
    years immediately preceding the date of application:



    • Operating under the influence, MCL 257.625

    • Refusal of commercial vehicle operator to submit to a chemical test, MCL
      257.625a

    • Ignition interlock device reporting violation, MCL 257.625k

    • Circumventing an ignition interlocking device, MCL 257.625l

    • Operating a commercial vehicle with alcohol content, MCL 257.625m(3)

    • Operating an aircraft under the influence, MCL 259.185

    • Operating an ORV under the influence, MCL 324.81134

    • Operating an ORV while visibly impaired, MCL 324.81135

    • Operating a snowmobile under the influence, MCL 324.82127

    • Controlled substances, MCL 333.7401 to 333.7461

    • Operating a locomotive under the influence, MCL 462.353(3)

    • Disorderly person, MCL 750.167

    • Embezzlement, MCL 750.174

    • False pretenses with intent to defraud, MCL 750.218

    • Larceny, MCL 750.356

    • Second-degree retail fraud, MCL 750.356d

    • Larceny, vacant building, MCL 750.359

    • Larceny, by conversion, MCL 750.362

    • Larceny, defrauding lessor, MCL 750.362a

    • Malicious destruction of property, MCL 750.377a

    • Malicious destruction of real property, MCL 750.380

    • Receiving stolen property, MCL 750.535

    • Malicious use of telephones, MCL 750.540e


    Note: The applicant must not have violated a law of the United
    States, another state, or a local unit of government of this state or another
    state substantially corresponding to a violation described above.


    14. Have not been found guilty but mentally ill of any crime and has not
    offered a plea of not guilty of, or been acquitted of, any crime by reason of
    insanity

    15. Have never been subject to an order of involuntary commitment in an
    inpatient or outpatient setting due to a mental illness

    16. Not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made,
    regardless of whether he or she is receiving treatment

    17. Not be under a court order of legal incapacity in this state or
    elsewhere

    18. Not be detrimental to the safety of his or her self or any other person
    if issued a Concealed Pistol License

    B. Federal Requirements

    Pursuant to MCL 28.426, a Concealed Pistol License may not be issued to a
    person prohibited under federal law from possessing or transporting a firearm.
    The federal requirements to possess or transport a firearm include that the
    applicant:

    1. Not have been convicted in any court of, or under indictment for, a crime
    punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year (i.e. felony, or any
    misdemeanor punishable by more than 2 years)

    2. Not be a fugitive of justice

    3. Not be an unlawful user of, or addicted to, any controlled substance, as
    defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)

    4. Not be adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a
    mental institution

    5. Not be an alien who is illegally or unlawfully in the United States

    6. Not be discharged from the United States Armed Forces under dishonorable
    conditions

    7. Not have renounced his or her citizenship

    8. Not be subject to a court order prohibiting harassing, stalking, or
    threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner or from
    engaging in other conduct that would place the partner or child in reasonable
    fear of bodily injury.

    9. Not be convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic
    violence.
    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  3. #3
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    Thanks, that's all I can find, but we all know how politicians twist things, and I wanted to be sure before imparting this information to the person who asked me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I don't see why not. Here's the MSPs synopsis of the CPL requirments.

    No mention of needing a fixed physical address.

    http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7...0926--,00.html

    Bronson

  4. #4
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    It becomes a problem when buying a gun. The ATF requires that your government-issued photo ID show your actual, current, physical residence address.

    http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ng-2001-5.html

    Full time RVers, some truck drivers, and others might not have a fixed long-term residence. They encounter lots of problems because of that, becaue the government generally likes everyone to fit into neat little boxes.

  5. #5
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
    This question was asked of me. Can he have a CPL if he has no actual address. He has a Po Box on his drivers license, but due to medical and financial problems stays with different family members for a month here and with another family member at another address in the same area, and some times a friends place.

    How would someone with this issue get a CPL?

    To be honest I was stumped, because I never thought about anyone having his problems or address issue. It is legal to have a PO Box on a drivers license so why not a PO Box on a CPL?

    It also occurred to me many retired people sell their homes and travel in Motor Homes and have no physical address other than a PO Box...
    I thought one couldn't use a PO Box on a Driver's License:

    see: the very last sentence on this page: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/DE...01_20459_7.pdf
    and the MCL says "residence address" for a DL: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-257-307
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I thought one couldn't use a PO Box on a Driver's License:

    see: the very last sentence on this page: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/DE...01_20459_7.pdf
    and the MCL says "residence address" for a DL: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-257-307
    Agreed...I always thought PO Boxes were not allowed for the DL.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I don't see why not. Here's the MSPs synopsis of the CPL requirments.

    No mention of needing a fixed physical address.

    http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7...0926--,00.html

    Bronson
    Given some of the reasons for losing a CPL or having one rejected, one can assume when the government want fewer of these things we will probably all have been guilty of at least one rule.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the input, but I know several people who had PO Boxes on the drivers licenses, including me and it was not even my idea, it was the secretary of State that suggested it. When I moved to a property that had no actual street address and only a property Tax number the Secretary of state used my PO Box. Previously I did have an address prior to the move, so I wonder is the rule only for new applications for a drivers license?




    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I thought one couldn't use a PO Box on a Driver's License:

    see: the very last sentence on this page: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/DE...01_20459_7.pdf
    and the MCL says "residence address" for a DL: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-257-307

  9. #9
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    we agree on the neat little box, they want to control us like rats.


    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    It becomes a problem when buying a gun. The ATF requires that your government-issued photo ID show your actual, current, physical residence address.

    http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ng-2001-5.html

    Full time RVers, some truck drivers, and others might not have a fixed long-term residence. They encounter lots of problems because of that, because the government generally likes everyone to fit into neat little boxes.

  10. #10
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
    Thanks for the input, but I know several people who had PO Boxes on the drivers licenses, including me and it was not even my idea, it was the secretary of State that suggested it. When I moved to a property that had no actual street address and only a property Tax number the Secretary of state used my PO Box. Previously I did have an address prior to the move, so I wonder is the rule only for new applications for a drivers license?
    I'm not doubting you; this is what I've been told and what I saw on the website (see previous post).
    My post office didn't even let me have a box until I had a physical address that I could then put on the PO box form.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  11. #11
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    I called the State of Michigan and after a long wait and run around, I was transferred to a technician as they called her. She stated any address will work, a friend, relative, ect. The legislature wrote the law prior to the many homeless we have today, and retired doing the motor home thing I guess. Now in asking her this she did state that you can have both an address and a PO Box so the mail can get to you. She said the reason they had the law written this way was in case for some reason your drivers license was suspended they can mail you the notice and someone can get a hold of you. I suspect she was speaking of the suspension as an opinion merely.

    Now for the Post office you are correct, which again is strange because some people get their mail as General delivery which really makes the address thing obsolete, but when did Government ever make any sense? There is a way around the PO Box address thing, you can get a second Vacation PO Box without the address requirement and then move to that second location, and drop the old PO box and and forward your mail, odd huh?

    It was so typical of a Government agency, 3 people 5 different answers. But I thank you again Dr. Todd and the others for the input.







    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I'm not doubting you; this is what I've been told and what I saw on the website (see previous post).
    My post office didn't even let me have a box until I had a physical address that I could then put on the PO box form.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    It's a pretty interesting question, one I may very well have to ask myself should I finally get to move out of Bastrop. It is very likely that wherever I move, I well be getting a job first and staying with friends temporarily for an unknown amount of time.

    I loath the idea of having to change address multiple times over a short period.

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

  13. #13
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    As an aside, I have a PO box and if the form or whatever I'm dealing with needs a street address, I've put the street address of the post office and used my PO # as an apartment number. The office is small and they laughed when I did this, but they did accept it. I don't know if any other post office would also accept it.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  14. #14
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    That's a novel idea, my post office is even smaller and they guy who works there is real easy going and wouldn't care if I did the same. Thanks for the idea.



    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    As an aside, I have a PO box and if the form or whatever I'm dealing with needs a street address, I've put the street address of the post office and used my PO # as an apartment number. The office is small and they laughed when I did this, but they did accept it. I don't know if any other post office would also accept it.

  15. #15
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    I have assumed that a PO is fine and have written 3 PO box training certifications, 2 in Wayne county and 1 in Macomb, this was some time ago no one has called me back with any issues so far. My assumption is that the law says:

    . "Be a resident of the State of Michigan for at least 6 months prior to
    application. An applicant is a state resident if one of the following
    applies:"
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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