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Thread: Concealed is Concealed ....

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Concealed is Concealed ....

    Good morning all. I am currently visiting your fine state and I would like to know just how far this "concealed is concealed" in Texas goes. I know there are certain exceptions where you can open carry, and otherwise MUST be concealed. As I understand Texas statutes, you are under no restriction if you are "under property under your control," and I think from your home to your car if that is where you are immediately headed. I would like to know if carrying openly or incidental exposure is allowed under the following circumstances:

    1) Can you OC in a hotel room?
    2) Can you OC on hotel grounds?
    3) Can you OC from hotel room to a vehicle?
    4) Can you expose the handgun when transferring it from your person to a compartment in the vehicle or vise versa?
    5) Can you carry openly when in a gun store or on a range?
    6) What is defined as 'traveling?'
    7) Could you conceivably carry openly on private property when you have permission from the owner?

    Thanks all!

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    Good morning all.

    **snip**

    Thanks all!
    There is a wealth of excellent information answering all of your questions right here.

    FWIW, your current understanding of Texas firearms law and enforcement is dangerously insufficient. I strongly advise you not to carry at all until you learn much more about it.

    EDIT: Should we get a stickied Texas Carry Law post up? A number of the other state forums have them. Answers to his questions are in the first page or two of posts, but just to be super extra helpful to people who can't bother, maybe a sticky would avoid some of these threads in the future.
    Last edited by ()pen(arry; 04-11-2012 at 10:04 AM.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    I'll give some quick IANAL answers, but you really need to research this yourself, as these questions are very specific.

    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    1) Can you OC in a hotel room?
    2) Can you OC on hotel grounds?
    3) Can you OC from hotel room to a vehicle?
    4) Can you expose the handgun when transferring it from your person to a compartment in the vehicle or vise versa?
    5) Can you carry openly when in a gun store or on a range?
    6) What is defined as 'traveling?'
    7) Could you conceivably carry openly on private property when you have permission from the owner?
    1) Private property. Ask them.
    2) Private property. Ask them.
    3) If you remain on private property, ask them. If not, absolutely not.
    4) If you are carrying under license, then for the full extent of the time under which you are doing so, you must keep it concealed.
    5) Private property. Ask them.
    6) It isn't. You definitely need to research this one. There's lots of discussion of this in this forum.
    7) Private property. Ask them.

    People are generally pretty happy to answer questions, but we tend to be happier when the questioner has done some basic research first. Maybe I'm just cranky today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    1) Can you OC in a hotel room?
    2) Can you OC on hotel grounds?
    3) Can you OC from hotel room to a vehicle?
    4) Can you expose the handgun when transferring it from your person to a compartment in the vehicle or vise versa?
    5) Can you carry openly when in a gun store or on a range?
    6) What is defined as 'traveling?'
    7) Could you conceivably carry openly on private property when you have permission from the owner?
    1) Private property. Ask them.
    2) Private property. Ask them.
    3) If you remain on private property, ask them. If not, absolutely not.
    4) If you are carrying under license, then for the full extent of the time under which you are doing so, you must keep it concealed.
    5) Private property. Ask them.
    6) It isn't. You definitely need to research this one. There's lots of discussion of this in this forum.
    7) Private property. Ask them.
    *sigh*....
    1) Yes. Your hotel room is your place of residence, and a place that you control. There is no question that you may OC while inside your hotel room.
    2) No, unless you are traversing them while traveling. You don't own or control the hotel grounds.
    3) Yes, legallyl speaking, as part of your travel, but it's likely to draw unwelcome attention, which you'd better be much more knowledgeable of the law in order to deal with.
    4) Yes, so long as no one sees you. "Concealed" in Texas means hidden to the observation of an ordinary person.
    5) No, and yes. You can OC on a range because you are engaged in, or en route to or from, a sporting activity commonly requiring use of a handgun.
    6) There isn't a statewide controlling definition.
    7) Absolutely not, and you don't need to bother asking the owner. There is no exception for "with the permission of the owner", only for property that you own or control.

    Yes, there has been an OC picnic in Texas, with a gubernatorial candidate as one of the guests, but it was done with the knowledge that it was civil disobedience -- i.e., everyone knew they were breaking the law, and took their chances anyway.

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    Regular Member CrossFire's Avatar
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    And the food was excellent. Thanks RodBender.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    *sigh*
    Take KBCraig's word over mine, for sure (though I'd quibble about some of his answers).

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrossFire View Post
    And the food was excellent. Thanks RodBender.
    You are quite welcome, sir.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Thank you for the feedback. I have carried once or twice, but mostly I have left my sidearm in the car or hotel room since my full size XD 45 isn't the easiest thing in the world to conceal. (When does Springfield release the XDS?). I have mostly stuck to carrying a knife when i worry about how effectively I am concealing my firearm and I despise having to be paranoid about my carry footprint. I hope Austin gets it together next year. I would love to move to a state like Texas, but I would have to get a smaller carry piece or largely forget about armed defense until or if the state changes its tune. It is often too hot to conceal effectively.

    God bless Texas, but the hippy state of Washington has unrestricted (except cars) open carry.

    I am just telling it how I see it. I love the people, the food, the history, culture, and much more about texas -- i have enjoyed my visit, but the unique restrictions Texas requires makes me a little hot under the collar. Your neighbor to the north looks like it will wise up in a year or two.

    At least it is shall issue and you can carry most anywhere ... albeit deep concealment only
    Last edited by acmariner99; 04-13-2012 at 02:27 PM. Reason: Additions and clarifications

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    I don't really think you have to worry too much, I've accidentally exposed a number of times. The instances where people clearly noticed, nothing happened. I get the impression that, at least here in small town Bastrop, people realize and accept that LACs carry.

    Though I do understand the concern. Everytime it happens, it's a heart stopping moment. Even more so when I am in a bar. A lot of people do not realize that carrying in a bar is legal(with exceptions, for the love of God, do not take that general statement as legal advice, it can get you arrested). I'm always worried that the wrong person is going to notice. I certainly don't wasn't trouble and dealing with the police is the last thing I want. You can best the rap, but not the ride.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    It's a sad commentary that when I am in Texas I can be charged with a criminal offense that carries a possible jail sentence of up to one year , and a $4,000 fine for exercising a right that the both the U.S. Constitution , and the Colorado Constitution declares is my sovereign right of citizenship in this great Republic.

    Texas really needs to tackle this one - and in the next legislative session. Kalifornia may just be "another game" but it seems to be closing in on Texas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    It's a sad commentary that when I am in Texas I can be charged with a criminal offense that carries a possible jail sentence of up to one year , and a $4,000 fine for exercising a right that the both the U.S. Constitution , and the Colorado Constitution declares is my sovereign right of citizenship in this great Republic.

    Texas really needs to tackle this one - and in the next legislative session. Kalifornia may just be "another game" but it seems to be closing in on Texas.
    Agreed, but first Texans need to kick out the spineless vermin in their legislature that can't even pass their own gun restriction laws but rather blackmail other states to do their dirty work. Utah's new restriction on issuing non-resident permits is the direct result of such blackmail.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    How, exactly, did Texas blackmail Utah?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    How, exactly, did Texas blackmail Utah?
    Key legislators in Texas made it clear to their counterparts in Utah that if Utah didn't require Texas residents to hold a Texas concealed permit before they are issued a Utah permit, Texas would stop honoring the Utah concealed permit. As a result, in order to protect the value to Utah residents, Utah's legislature changed the permit law to require that anyone whose state of residence is shall issue must have their home state permit in order to get a Utah permit.

    Of the shall issue states, Texas has some of the most draconian restrictions in the nation on who can obtain a permit, so many Texas residents we bypassing it and getting their Utah permit instead. Texas legislators didn't have the guts to change their own laws to require Texas residents to have a Texas permit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpyne View Post
    Key legislators in Texas made it clear to their counterparts in Utah that if Utah didn't require Texas residents to hold a Texas concealed permit before they are issued a Utah permit, Texas would stop honoring the Utah concealed permit. As a result, in order to protect the value to Utah residents, Utah's legislature changed the permit law to require that anyone whose state of residence is shall issue must have their home state permit in order to get a Utah permit.

    Of the shall issue states, Texas has some of the most draconian restrictions in the nation on who can obtain a permit, so many Texas residents we bypassing it and getting their Utah permit instead. Texas legislators didn't have the guts to change their own laws to require Texas residents to have a Texas permit.
    This is accurate, but the root cause was even more juvenile: certain key legislators saw Texas-based Utah instructors at Texas gun shows, advertising the cheaper, easier, faster Utah license as an alternative to the Texas CHL, and they resented it.

    If you read the more mainstream Texas CHL resources, they openly admit resentment towards these instructors, then they turn around and blame them, saying it's their fault that Utah now requires a home state license before issuing a Utah license. In a very roundabout way, that's true: these "pro-gun" Texas legislators were afraid these instructors openly advertising the truth would result in anti-CHL legislation in Texas, so they warned Utah of the possible consequences.

    And then they washed their hands, saying they had nothing at all to do with Utah's decision.
    Last edited by KBCraig; 04-23-2012 at 01:57 AM.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    This is accurate, but the root cause was even more juvenile: certain key legislators saw Texas-based Utah instructors at Texas gun shows, advertising the cheaper, easier, faster Utah license as an alternative to the Texas CHL, and they resented it.
    Not to mention the Texas-based Texas instructors who are affiliated with TSRA and put lobbying pressure on Texas legislators to prop up their uncompetitive business by force of law.

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