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Thread: Bullsh*t -2nd degree murder charge for Z

  1. #1
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    Bullsh*t -2nd degree murder charge for Z

    Wow, bow to media-hype/propoganda/race-baiting, much, Corey?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...degree-murder/

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    I concur with you whole-heartedly. These charges are bein brought solely due to media pressure. Hopefully, he will get some good attorneys and there will be at least one juror who sees through the crap...
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Truly terrifying. Without the media hype, we'd just have one less hoodlum. The witch hunt was successful.

    Angela Corey looks like a demon.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Truly terrifying. Without the media hype, we'd just have one less hoodlum. The witch hunt was successful.

    Angela Corey looks like a demon.
    Well, maybe she should get a bit of a message come November..along with the rest of the State's politicos.
    But indeed, out of all the perhaps hundreds of cases across this State, each year, they single out THIS one-almost entirely on racial points..disgusting.

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    Thumbs down

    Disgusting.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Disgusting.
    Indeed. And terrifying, indeed.
    Consider the implications of this- the precedent it can set, for all of us, should this go to trial, or even be plead out in some form.
    Do we now hesitate before defending ourselves, if the target happens to be of some other race/ethnicity. out of concern for a potential aftermath like this one?
    Consider how we must now realize that the State will over-look or even ignore- our own SYG or self-defense laws, simply because some folks will pitch a fit if the person we are defending against happens to be of some other race- a highly likely situation, when one considers crime-statistics in this State.

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    If y'all will forgive me for butting into your State's forum, I'll offer a slightly different perspective.

    None of us were there. And I sure hope the prosecutor has access to a lot more and better info than any of us have received via the media. We weren't happy when the other side jumped to conclusions. Based on nothing but a desire to avoid personal hypocrisy, I will do my level best to avoid jumping to conclusions here.

    I fully recognize the distinct possibility that Zimmerman is being hung out to dry based on public/political pressure. And if so it is disgusting. Even if acquitted he is likely to be bankrupted. As I understand it, some of your laws were intended specifically to avoid imposing the cost of a trial on a guy who claimed self defense unless there was substantial evidence to counter that claim.

    But maybe, just maybe, there is substantial evidence to counter that claim. Something beyond the wild speculation and race baiting and flat out lies.

    Maybe, just maybe, there is evidence that Zimmerman did initiate the physical confrontation that ultimately ended in Martin's death. If there is and it is presented at trial so be it. And in that case I will give the prosecutor kudos for not trying the case in the media, not further tainting the jury pool.

    If not, some elected officials need to be replaced the very next time the opportunity presents itself at the ballot box.

    But at this point, I think it is time to make clear that everyone better be prepared to fully and peacefully accept the outcome of the trial. If Zimmerman is acquitted, riots are unacceptable. If he is convicted, Martin is vindicated.

    And more than worrying about the race of an attacker, I do think we all ought to think and rethink and double think whether anything we are doing could possibly be twisted into being the aggressor in any situation. A man who carries a gun doesn't have room to also carry an ego. (Not saying Zimmerman did, just saying I'm going to be doubly careful to avoid anything that could be twisted as being aggressive anytime I'm armed.) Ditto on anything that might be twisted into being portrayed as being a "cop wannabe". CCW badges are generally rejected as a bad idea. Here is some more evidence to that. To that list we might well add carrying handcuffs or accepting or holding any position like "Neighbor Watch Chief Captain." For that matter, I won't bother joining any official neighborhood watch organization at this point. I'll keep an eye out as I have always done. But no positions or titles to twist.

    On the flip side, as if potential employers and such looking them over weren't enough of an incentive, this incidence also suggests that we might do well to double check our facebook images/profiles, what words we've posted online, etc.

    Theory and law are great. But in practice, public perception can matter a lot.

    At this point, I hope for a fair trial.

    But at least it is great to live in a post-racial society. Where else can a brown guy shoot a black guy and it end up being the fault of white guys?

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Maybe, just maybe, there is evidence that Zimmerman did initiate the physical confrontation that ultimately ended in Martin's death. If there is and it is presented at trial so be it. And in that case I will give the prosecutor kudos for not trying the case in the media, not further tainting the jury pool.
    Possible, but VERY unlikely. If they had good evidence it wouldn't have taken so long. This whole appointment of a special prosecutor was designed to have this outcome. Corey knew what her job was before she looked at any of the evidence: how can we make a case against Zimmerman.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    If y'all will forgive me for butting into your State's forum, I'll offer a slightly different perspective.

    None of us were there. And I sure hope the prosecutor has access to a lot more and better info than any of us have received via the media. We weren't happy when the other side jumped to conclusions. Based on nothing but a desire to avoid personal hypocrisy, I will do my level best to avoid jumping to conclusions here.

    I fully recognize the distinct possibility that Zimmerman is being hung out to dry based on public/political pressure. And if so it is disgusting. Even if acquitted he is likely to be bankrupted. As I understand it, some of your laws were intended specifically to avoid imposing the cost of a trial on a guy who claimed self defense unless there was substantial evidence to counter that claim.

    But maybe, just maybe, there is substantial evidence to counter that claim. Something beyond the wild speculation and race baiting and flat out lies.

    Maybe, just maybe, there is evidence that Zimmerman did initiate the physical confrontation that ultimately ended in Martin's death. If there is and it is presented at trial so be it. And in that case I will give the prosecutor kudos for not trying the case in the media, not further tainting the jury pool.

    If not, some elected officials need to be replaced the very next time the opportunity presents itself at the ballot box.

    But at this point, I think it is time to make clear that everyone better be prepared to fully and peacefully accept the outcome of the trial. If Zimmerman is acquitted, riots are unacceptable. If he is convicted, Martin is vindicated.

    And more than worrying about the race of an attacker, I do think we all ought to think and rethink and double think whether anything we are doing could possibly be twisted into being the aggressor in any situation. A man who carries a gun doesn't have room to also carry an ego. (Not saying Zimmerman did, just saying I'm going to be doubly careful to avoid anything that could be twisted as being aggressive anytime I'm armed.) Ditto on anything that might be twisted into being portrayed as being a "cop wannabe". CCW badges are generally rejected as a bad idea. Here is some more evidence to that. To that list we might well add carrying handcuffs or accepting or holding any position like "Neighbor Watch Chief Captain." For that matter, I won't bother joining any official neighborhood watch organization at this point. I'll keep an eye out as I have always done. But no positions or titles to twist.

    On the flip side, as if potential employers and such looking them over weren't enough of an incentive, this incidence also suggests that we might do well to double check our facebook images/profiles, what words we've posted online, etc.

    Theory and law are great. But in practice, public perception can matter a lot.

    At this point, I hope for a fair trial.

    But at least it is great to live in a post-racial society. Where else can a brown guy shoot a black guy and it end up being the fault of white guys?

    Charles
    I dont entirely disagree, except to say this- as of yesterday, and the day before, local news put out a statement from Corey saying she had no intentions of filing any such charges on Zimmerman, that there was, nothing to charge him FOR. - Then today, all references to those statements are-interestingly-removed- and this story comes out. I had intended to copy/paste that release here last night, but never got back here to my computer to do so. I wish I had, because there would at least be a record of it, and link to it to show.
    She may well have had plenty of detailed info- and I still say the M.E.'s report spelled out pretty clearly what did and did not happen (as relates to who was on top of whom when shot), and at least until she caved to all the political, and media/social pressure, she knew what was really what as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Possible, but VERY unlikely. If they had good evidence it wouldn't have taken so long. This whole appointment of a special prosecutor was designed to have this outcome. Corey knew what her job was before she looked at any of the evidence: how can we make a case against Zimmerman.
    Exactly,-as far as the cops who responded to the scene were concerned, and the medical examiner, after looking Martin over, it was an open-and-shut case. It only became otherwise once the race-card was thrown down.
    Ya, it sucks for Martin's folks that they lost their son. That, however, doesnt justify all this crap that's been stirred-up, and out-right bs that's been spewed since. And it sure as hell doesnt justify a total disregard for SYG or 790 in general, all for the sake of bending over for a particular segment of the community.

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    There won't be a fair trial. The way the media has hyped this up? I feel for him because even though I haven't picked a side yet, from all the so called randsoms Ive heard that's on the mans head, he sounds safer in jail.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpguy View Post
    There won't be a fair trial. The way the media has hyped this up? I feel for him because even though I haven't picked a side yet, from all the so called randsoms Ive heard that's on the mans head, he sounds safer in jail.
    I understand race based gangs in jail are ugly for the otherwise anonymous convicts. This poor guy? If convicted, short of spending his entire sentence in protective custody, he will have little choice but to join a hispanic gang just for protection against the black gangs that will want to kill him perhaps after doing other nasty things to him.

    That said, if there isn't evidence to support it, the 2nd degree murder charge may be a gift of sorts. A jury may just acquit on that when it would have been willing to convict on something like manslaughter. To the extent this is motivated by public pressure rather than solid evidence, I don't think she can afford to plea bargain down as I doubt manslaughter satisfies the clamoring hordes.

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Possible, but VERY unlikely. If they had good evidence it wouldn't have taken so long. This whole appointment of a special prosecutor was designed to have this outcome. Corey knew what her job was before she looked at any of the evidence: how can we make a case against Zimmerman.
    If true, we must hope for an acquittal. And if she has overcharged him, that may well be more likely (or at least to get a hung trial) than if she had gone for something lower.

    If there isn't solid evidence presented at trial, it will time to organize and vote out of office those who bowed to public pressure and forced a man into bankruptcy.

    But if nothing else, consider how your posts here would eliminate you from jury duty on this case were you to be selected. These days, I suspect merely discussing a case on line prior to the trial would be enough to disqualify a person from service. But to post that my mind is made up is beyond the pale. I'd have no choice but to disclose that and be automatically disqualified.

    I'd like to honestly believe that at this point, I could sit on this jury and render a verdict based on the evidence presented and the laws on the books.

    There as huge aspects to this case I don't like including what I believe are some major lies from the media including edited 911 calls, disparate photos, and trying to paint this as "white on black" rather than "hispanic and black". I believe the conduct of Sharpton et al is despicable and the actions of the Black Panthers downright criminal. But none of that changes what actually happened the night Martin was shot.

    And with that in mind, I really do think I could be an honest, open minded, impartial juror in this case. Doubtless, modern voire dire would exclude me for any number of other reasons including having followed the case and discussed it, being educated in a field where facts hold sway over emotion, and being a gun owner who believes in the right to self-defense. But I consider those things illegitimate reasons to exclude a person from jury duty.

    It is clear that racial issues have played a role in this case, else we'd have never heard of it and it would have never gone to the special prosecutor. (Highlighting the importance of electing local officials with enough backbone not to step aside when defending their decisions would protect one of their citizens.) I strongly suspect that charges are being brought here that might not have been brought in a case equal on every other account other than the race angle being played up.

    BUT, I honestly don't know what happened that night. In my heart of hearts I could and would come to a final decision based on evidence presented knowing that Zimmerman is presumed innocent until the prosecutor proves him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

    I hope for a fair trial. But that requires good, decent, intelligent, thoughtful men to be eligible for jury duty by not deciding the case before all the evidence is heard.

    Charles

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    George Zimmerman Arrest - John E. Polk Correctional Facility (Inmate Search)

    http://webbond.seminolesheriff.org/I...r=201200004452
    Last edited by seminoles1999; 04-11-2012 at 09:44 PM.

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    I would expect nothing less than intimidation to the jurers funded by Holder.

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    This is a quote from a group called Conservative Patriots of America on facebook:

    A personal friend of mine who is a federal judge in the Court of Appeals says this about the charges now facing Zimmerman:
    "If you listened to the prosecutor's comments and read between the lines. We are prosecuting this to quiet the outrage and may not win it. We will have fulfilled the requirements of the law. Florida is going to have one major, almost insurmountable, problem. Finding a non-tainted juty."

    I also got a confirmation of this line of thought from a friend in Kalifornia: "My neighbor sits on the Federal Court here in Los Angeles... he's told me similar rumors"

    Regardless, to fall into the trap of oiling the squeaky wheel, we all really need to be careful if we are confronted and have to defend ourselves. I agree with j4l as stated in another thread, I think it is time that we also protest and stand up for our rights.

    Mike V.
    Last edited by mavidal; 04-12-2012 at 09:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mavidal View Post
    This is a quote from a group called Conservative Patriots of America on facebook:

    A personal friend of mine who is a federal judge in the Court of Appeals says this about the charges now facing Zimmerman:
    "If you listened to the prosecutor's comments and read between the lines. We are prosecuting this to quiet the outrage and may not win it. We will have fulfilled the requirements of the law. Florida is going to have one major, almost insurmountable, problem. Finding a non-tainted juty."

    I also got a confirmation of this line of thought from a friend in Kalifornia: "My neighbor sits on the Federal Court here in Los Angeles... he's told me similar rumors"

    Regardless, to fall into the trap of oiling the squeaky wheel, we all really need to be careful if we are confronted and have to defend ourselves. I agree with j4l as stated in another thread, I think it is time that we also protest and stand up for our rights.

    Mike V.
    Protest indeed. But- My take on "protests" especially the more riotous sorts as carried out by the other side, with all the shouting and ranting and carrying-on-type antics- I despise those.
    But, I feel if ever there is a time that OUR side needs to get out there, be seen and a "show of force" of sorts,it is now. The reason these folks get out there and do so for THEIR causes, is that-for them, anyway, it works- as is evidenced by this disgusting demonstration of bending to the will of the "masses".

    The public at large, I feel, get's uppity as it does, because they actually get, and are given, the perception that they are the majority. They come away with this delusion that "most people" feel as they do. And, it would seem, so do our politicians, and legislators, and police/courts-and the media is always all-too-willing to play up that perception to the fullest.
    Our side goes un-heard, un-seen, and ends up being viewed as some sort of ignorant minority.
    I think that a strong, and massive "protest" of sorts could indeed be put out there. Without resorting to the type of nonsense the left, in general, put on. We dont need any Al Sharpton types ranting and spewing false nonsense. We should go the opposite route:

    An OC or-perhaps even more effective (as it forces the sheeple, and the media to ask, to beg the question-wtf, over) an empty-holster protest/rally in Tallahassee, Jacksonville, Miami, Orlando, Ft. Laud, etc. And a SILENT protest at that- as I mentioned once before. No shouting, no antics. Dead silence. Polite, smiling, apparently friendly protestors-who do NOT block entrances/exits to places, who open doors for folks when possible, and who tip their hats to the ladies (as proper Florida gentleman gun-fighters, you DO wear a hat, dont you? lol).The exact OPPOSITE of the types of demonstrations we've seen here of late, and of the sort the OCCUPY nonsense engages in.

    Have some fliers- simple, to the point statements- that can be handed out/distributed to media and any citizens who ask us" WTF, over?"
    Speak not a word to them, at all. Nothing they can mis-quote, or turn into edited sound-bites out of context. Silence.
    But get our messages/demands out- OC - no conditions, Campus Carry- no conditions, SYG vs. arbitrary witch-hunts to satisfy savages. And an encouragement for like-minded voters to make themselves heard/known and felt come November.
    Last edited by j4l; 04-12-2012 at 10:03 AM.

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    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

    A fund to buy him the best lawyers should be set up. This means alot to many states.

    I dont fight. If someone assults me (hit, kick, smash my head into the ground) I will not use my fists. Smith and Wesson handles my issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

    A fund to buy him the best lawyers should be set up. This means alot to many states.

    I dont fight. If someone assults me (hit, kick, smash my head into the ground) I will not use my fists. Smith and Wesson handles my issues.
    Well here's the rub with that. And that's what this case highlights, more than anything. That you may well face 12 folks who have been tainted by the excessive media coverage, political/racial/social propaganda, and politicians willing to pull out all the dirty tricks to have you hanged, because they want to look "popular" and "in touch" with the masses during an election year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Well here's the rub with that. And that's what this case highlights, more than anything. That you may well face 12 folks who have been tainted by the excessive media coverage, political/racial/social propaganda, and politicians willing to pull out all the dirty tricks to have you hanged, because they want to look "popular" and "in touch" with the masses during an election year.
    Very True. It is a nation wide case. Even here in michigan people are getting all worked up. The way people talk about it, its like they were there. Their (martins) propaganda is working. If a silent protest with fliers is organized it should be posted in every states page. People for martin have protested at MI state capitol and I would love to help start one for zimmerman at the capitol too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

    A fund to buy him the best lawyers should be set up. This means alot to many states.

    I dont fight. If someone assults me (hit, kick, smash my head into the ground) I will not use my fists. Smith and Wesson handles my issues.
    Here you go:
    http://therealgeorgezimmerman.com/
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Truly terrifying. Without the media hype, we'd just have one less hoodlum. The witch hunt was successful.

    Angela Corey looks like a demon.
    Hoodlum?

    Tell me this, did you know trayvon? Have you met him?

    Do you know anyone that knows him?

    If not, what makes him a hoodlum? Because he had a few gold teeth? That's VERY common in florida.

    Is it the hoodie? It was cold that day, people wear them because its comfortable and warm inside them.

    Was it the skittles?

    The iced tea?

    What made him a hoodlum?




    Personally I seriously don't think zimmerman shooting him was about race AT ALL, I haven't seen anything to say it was side from the doctored audio made to say he called him a coon which wasn't real.

    But what I do notice on a lot of gun forums that ever since the beginning people have been taking zimmerman's side and not only that, bashing trayvon martin.

    Ever stop and think if trayvon was really such a hoodlum, zimmerman shouldn't have gotten out of his car at all? If he was, he could have simply followed from his vehicle and told police where he went.

    Instead, he tries to play hero.

    Now I read every gun forum I'm a member of and all I see is a bunch of white men badmouthing a young black kid that was gunned down.

    Despite the fact that voice analyzers proved that it wasn't zimmerman screaming for help, trayvon had to be at fault?

    why would an ARMED grown man scream for help against a 17 year old before shooting him? Why scream for help right when you have your gun out?

    Why didn't the next round chamber?

    Its a lot of questions to ask rather than to ignorantly assume the black kid must be guilty.

    THIS is why the mainstream population thinks that gun owners are a bunch of racist rednecks or criminals, when there are so many of us that aren't!

    Its enough racism involved with the nbpp and that bounty on the man's head, yet no arrests have been made on that matter.

    THAT is the only racism in this situation aside from what's going on on the boards.

    Before you say "he was pounding his head in" well what started it?

    IF zimmerman didn't get out of the car, would he really have had an issue? Could he have gotten his head pounded in if he stayed in the car? Would he have approached him if he wasn't armed? The answer of course is no, and if someone approaches you while you're minding your own business you won't be shaking their hand and inviting them over for dinner either.

    how do you know zimmerman didn't start that altercation by attacking or trying to physically hold martin? If someone you don't know physically grabs you and is trying to hold you, what do you do if you aren't armed? How do you know trayvon wasn't standing HIS ground?

    Speaking of that law, it DOES NOT apply when your actions are the catalyst that sets things into motion. You can't start a confrontation then shoot to get out of it.

    on the gun forums some people are praising zimmerman as if he's a hero for killing an unarmed kid. 2pac did say "cops give a d@mn about a African American, pull a trigger kill a n***a he's a hero"

    looks like people here are proving the late 2pac right.

    *swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*

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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    Thanks, donation sent.

    You have been very helpful. And I loved your last comment on the other thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_hustleman View Post
    Hoodlum?

    Tell me this, did you know trayvon? Have you met him?

    Do you know anyone that knows him?

    If not, what makes him a hoodlum? Because he had a few gold teeth? That's VERY common in florida.

    Is it the hoodie? It was cold that day, people wear them because its comfortable and warm inside them.

    Was it the skittles?

    The iced tea?

    What made him a hoodlum?




    Personally I seriously don't think zimmerman shooting him was about race AT ALL, I haven't seen anything to say it was side from the doctored audio made to say he called him a coon which wasn't real.

    But what I do notice on a lot of gun forums that ever since the beginning people have been taking zimmerman's side and not only that, bashing trayvon martin.

    Ever stop and think if trayvon was really such a hoodlum, zimmerman shouldn't have gotten out of his car at all? If he was, he could have simply followed from his vehicle and told police where he went.

    Instead, he tries to play hero.

    Now I read every gun forum I'm a member of and all I see is a bunch of white men badmouthing a young black kid that was gunned down.

    Despite the fact that voice analyzers proved that it wasn't zimmerman screaming for help, trayvon had to be at fault?

    why would an ARMED grown man scream for help against a 17 year old before shooting him? Why scream for help right when you have your gun out?

    Why didn't the next round chamber?

    Its a lot of questions to ask rather than to ignorantly assume the black kid must be guilty.

    THIS is why the mainstream population thinks that gun owners are a bunch of racist rednecks or criminals, when there are so many of us that aren't!

    Its enough racism involved with the nbpp and that bounty on the man's head, yet no arrests have been made on that matter.

    THAT is the only racism in this situation aside from what's going on on the boards.

    Before you say "he was pounding his head in" well what started it?

    IF zimmerman didn't get out of the car, would he really have had an issue? Could he have gotten his head pounded in if he stayed in the car? Would he have approached him if he wasn't armed? The answer of course is no, and if someone approaches you while you're minding your own business you won't be shaking their hand and inviting them over for dinner either.

    how do you know zimmerman didn't start that altercation by attacking or trying to physically hold martin? If someone you don't know physically grabs you and is trying to hold you, what do you do if you aren't armed? How do you know trayvon wasn't standing HIS ground?

    Speaking of that law, it DOES NOT apply when your actions are the catalyst that sets things into motion. You can't start a confrontation then shoot to get out of it.

    on the gun forums some people are praising zimmerman as if he's a hero for killing an unarmed kid. 2pac did say "cops give a d@mn about a African American, pull a trigger kill a n***a he's a hero"

    looks like people here are proving the late 2pac right.

    *swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*
    While I agree with this, the other side isn't exactly innocent with the race card either. Its a shame for both sides, and no matter if you believe he did it or not, he won't get a fair trail. I don't buy into the BS of they won't pressured into an arrest buy the media.

    If you don't report the truth, you should be held accountable for it.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

  25. #25
    Regular Member michaelm_ski's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
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    2nd degree murder charge for Zimmerman

    There you have it RACIAL INTIMIDATION ! it doesn't get more obvious than this , Had the roles been reversed there would not be this case .

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