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Thread: Bullsh*t -2nd degree murder charge for Z

  1. #51
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Excellent synopsis, James. Thank you.
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  2. #52
    Regular Member MackTheKnife's Avatar
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    Probable cause affidavit

    I read the three page affidavit Angela Corey used to charge Zimmerman. It is short on facts, uses the phrase "profiling" and makes no mention of the alleged three witnesses who saw Trayvon attack Zimmerman punching him and hitting his head against the sidewalk. The affidavit states that Zimmerman followed Trayvon and initiated the whole thing. So much for the reports that Zimmerman broke off contact, went back to his vehicle, and then was approached/attacked by Trayvon. And why didn't Corey let a grand jury decide whether or not to charge him? So much for the "no pressure or politics".

  3. #53
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MackTheKnife View Post
    I read the three page affidavit Angela Corey used to charge Zimmerman. It is short on facts, uses the phrase "profiling" and makes no mention of the alleged three witnesses who saw Trayvon attack Zimmerman punching him and hitting his head against the sidewalk. The affidavit states that Zimmerman followed Trayvon and initiated the whole thing. So much for the reports that Zimmerman broke off contact, went back to his vehicle, and then was approached/attacked by Trayvon. And why didn't Corey let a grand jury decide whether or not to charge him? So much for the "no pressure or politics".
    There was no way in hell she was going to risk a GJ returning a 'no true bill'. She set out to charge him, and worked backwards from there, IMO.

    Here's what another attorney/judge had to say about it:

    I saw the press conference. My thought at the time was that here is just another prosecutor with visions of a “Law and Order” appearance strutting her stuff. No way in hell is this 2d degree murder and she knows it. She had to get the word Murder in the charge in order to satisfy the Black Panthers. Manslaughter isn’t near sexy enough. As soon as I heard she was bypassing the Grand Jury, I knew a charge was coming. She didn’t want to take the chance that a Grand Jury might return a “no true bill” which is what would have happened if the GJ listened to the law. This is a gal with definite Judicial aspirations and very little character. If she is so law and order, why no action against the Black Panthers for crimes committed on television? As expected, I heard nothing from Pam Bondi and she has said nothing on TV. The solicitation to Murder and Kidnap has been repeated several times without a word from her or any other law enforcement person. It will be interesting to see what happens.
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  4. #54
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    There was no way in hell she was going to risk a GJ returning a 'no true bill'. She set out to charge him, and worked backwards from there, IMO.

    Here's what another attorney/judge had to say about it:
    Give Pam Bondi a break. She has to make sure there are no more bath salts out there that she wants to ban.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  5. #55
    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    I won't say how I feel about his charges because, like everyone who was not there on the street that night, I don't know exactly what happened, and without having all of the information I will withhold my opinion. I will say that there is (unfortunately) no way in hell he is getting a fair trial after all of the media coverage. I bet the jury hangs him in ten minutes.
    Once more into the fray.
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  6. #56
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    Profiling is when you assume someone may be guilty of a crime absent any facts and based only on their appearance.

    I thought that was a good call on her part in the affidavit.

    Z states openly on the "9-1-1 call" to the switchboard at the station that he was basing his suspicions on things that had happened in the neighborhood in the past, and not having actually witnessed a crime in progress.

    M was suspicious to Z simply because he was there.

    Z sounds very paranoid to me.

    I read the affidavit as well, and it sounds like a good summary of the prosecution's best case. This is why we have trials and juries, to determine actual facts when someone is killed.

    And the magistrate-judge quickly sent it off to trial, probably to have his own hands free of it, being an elected official, and not wanting to become the lightning rod on this hot national issue.
    With all due respect, you don't have a flippin' clue what you're talking about as it pertains to Florida law. That PC affidavit was nothing but speculation and conjecture. The only fact in it was that Martin is currently deceased.
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  7. #57
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    one thing to consider is if Zimmerman had been OCing, then there would not have been a confrontation
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    No can do

    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    one thing to consider is if Zimmerman had been OCing, then there would not have been a confrontation
    Florida is not an open carry state per se.

  9. #59
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    RV I am not going to critique your logic skills, or lack thereof.

    Suffice it to say that Zimmerman is lucky it will be Floridians judging him on trial, not anybody else.

    I suspect the jury will be all caucasian, and all gun owning.

    Anybody else and he is sunk.
    Critique away, sport. Your opinion would be amusing at best.

    So now you're an expert on Seminole county demographics?
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  10. #60
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6-shooter View Post
    Florida is not an open carry state per se.
    bingo give that person a ciiigar
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  11. #61
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Is that judge recusing himself because he won't obey orders and help convict a probably innocent man?
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  12. #62
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Is that judge recusing himself because he won't obey orders and help convict a probably innocent man?
    Sorta.

    SHE has a possible conflict of interest. Her husband is a partner of the attorney (Mark NeJame) Zimmerman originally asked to defend him. NeJame recommended his current attorney Mark O'Mara. O'Mara would do well to ask that she be removed. She's only been on the bench a little over a year, and I highly doubt she's going to make any decisions that could jeapordize her 'career'.
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  13. #63
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    RV,

    What is your damage assessment from this case? I feel that since our lawmakers are such followers, licensed OC is off the table for next year. Which is ironic, because if Z had been OCing, this incident may not have happened.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  14. #64
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    Almost everyone is surprised that the Florida special prosecutor came up with a murder-2 charge.

    Many were expecting a manslaughter charge of some degree instead. Many others feel that the SYG law justifies the shooting, on the other hand.

    The prosecutor may be over-charging, in order to promote a plea deal for manslaughter.

    Or the prosecutor may simply believe that Z was indeed profiling (actually he was), stalking (actually he was), confronted (we don't know exactly yet), threatened (this is also under debate still), and shot M (no doubt he shot him and that M died of the wound).

    There have been several predictions on the news and commentary shows that Z will cop to manslaughter. Although his new lawyer has indicated the trial will go forward and that Z will testify.
    Profiling - I disagree. Zimmerman's recorded conversation with dispatch does not support this conclusion beyond his reference to "these ******** always get away". Zimmerman described the actions of Martin to the dispatcher without reference to race. Besides, it is human nature to profile to one extent or another. One sees a well-dressed, well-groomed, literate person and forms a "profile" of that person in their own mind, which differs from one who sees a slovenly, unshaven, and foul-mouthed person. With the exception of law enforcement and other public service personnel, profiling is perfectly lawful and natural.

    Stalking - Again, I disagree. Florida statutes define stalking as repeated instances of harassment. This was a single incident of following and does not meet the legal definition of stalking, nor is there any law against following someone.

    And the premise that Martin was "standing his ground" against Zimmerman does not hold water because it does not authorize the use of force when none is offered by the other party. One cannot legally start a fight just because they are annoyed at the presence of another. If that were the case, celebrities would be within their legal rights to assault paparazzi or reporters at will, and we know that's not the case. The line was crossed when the Martin/Zimmerman incident became physical. And even if it is found that Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation, 776.041 authorizes use of deadly force should the aggressor find himself in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death.
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  15. #65
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    RV,

    What is your damage assessment from this case? I feel that since our lawmakers are such followers, licensed OC is off the table for next year. Which is ironic, because if Z had been OCing, this incident may not have happened.
    Kinda taking a wait and see approach, Zach, but keeping an eye on things. I think the initial whirlwind has subsided for now. I don't think any of the pols are going to do ANYTHING drastic in a very important election cycle. Too concerned with self-preservation.

    Rest assured, though, we are ready and willing to send the troops to Tally to testify in front of any committees that may be formed for the purpose of weakening that which we have fought very hard for.

    If you think there is anything specific we should be on the look out for, please let us know.

    ...and it's Scott. No secrets here.
    Last edited by rvrctyrngr; 04-18-2012 at 02:26 PM.
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  16. #66
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Well said, Rich.
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    Martin did have a gun, but not on him, there is photo proof of this, his myspace is full of gang related stuff and guns.

    he was a gang banger, Kicked out of school for drugs and fighting

    He attacked Zimmerman from behind after Zimmerman lost sight of him and was walking back to his car.

    he was 6 foot 3.. Played football..

  18. #68
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...cution-immoral


    Just look at that...that "woman". I demand, as a citizen of this state, that if she knew about this photo that she be disbarred and charged with perjury.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  19. #69
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    I think if Scott even pays lip service to this Demoron, he'll be signing his own political death warrant, Zach.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    I think if Scott even pays lip service to this Demoron, he'll be signing his own political death warrant, Zach.
    Indeed, but in many ways he signed that within weeks of getting elected, anyway.
    As for the whole lot- it's long past time to clean-house. Top to bottom, local, county and State-level.
    Leglislatures, Gov, Judges, PA, Sherrif's -across the board. Come Nov. it's "NO" to all incumbents, for me.

  21. #71
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    I think if Scott even pays lip service to this Demoron, he'll be signing his own political death warrant, Zach.
    Fine with me....As long as we get him to sign a general OC bill like he promised first, lol.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  22. #72
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Fine with me....As long as we get him to sign a general OC bill like he promised first, lol.
    Will see what we can do about that, Zach!

    Thought you'd get a kick out of this:
    I ran into Corey yesterday...literally. She was walking into a sports pub that my friends own as I was walking out with take-out. Slammed right into her. If she'd had any idea she'd just walked into a man carrying 2 pistols and 3 knives (had been at the range all day teaching), she'd have vapor-locked!
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  23. #73
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    Will see what we can do about that, Zach!

    Thought you'd get a kick out of this:
    I ran into Corey yesterday...literally. She was walking into a sports pub that my friends own as I was walking out with take-out. Slammed right into her. If she'd had any idea she'd just walked into a man carrying 2 pistols and 3 knives (had been at the range all day teaching), she'd have vapor-locked!
    Hilarious!

    After running into her I would have asked her if she was going to press charges for assault.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  24. #74
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    Just in case anyone missed these reports. Looks like Trayvon Martin's autopsy reveals that in addition to the fatal gunshot wound, he also suffered from injuries on his knuckles. Mr. Zimmerman suffered from a fractured nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury.

    News article at:

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/16...est=latestnews


    and an opinion piece by John Lott:

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...d-media-didnt/

    Charles

  25. #75
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    And now it looks like the autopsy revealed found Marijuana in Martin's system. I can't say I was surprised.

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=2012...&s_cid=queue-1

    I will hasten to add that I doubt having a little dope in his system had any direct effect on what happened the day of the shooting. Indeed, stereotypically we might well expect someone who has recently smoked a little dope to be mellow rather than violent.

    But the presence of an illegal drug in Martin's bloodstream does tend to paint a picture different than an innocent child. Combined with the school suspension (the whole reason he was in the neighborhood staying with his father in the first place) and some of the "gansta and bling" type photos of him, The prosecutor's job is looking more and more difficult.

    Charles
    Last edited by utbagpiper; 05-17-2012 at 06:24 PM.

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