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Thread: AP - Senator Kevin Bryant seeks restoration of open carry rights in South Carolina

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    AP - Senator Kevin Bryant seeks restoration of open carry rights in South Carolina

    http://www.thestate.com/2012/04/10/2...et-people.html

    SNIP

    SC Republican wants to let people pack openly

    COLUMBIA, S.C. — A Republican senator wants residents to be able to carry a gun openly.
    Sen. Kevin Bryant of Anderson introduced legislation Tuesday revising the state's concealed carry law, saying the Second Amendment doesn't use the words concealed permit.

    . . .

  2. #2
    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Ahh, ya beat me too it.

    Here's my comments I was going to make:

    A new permitless carry bill, S 1408, was introduced on Tuesday. It include permitless concealed and open carry. It's short and to the point. It's not an omnibus bill like the last few have been. The author also made it so public employers could NOT post "no weapon allowed" signs.

    This is how you do it, folks. The author of this permitless carry bill repealed as much of verbiage as he could, instead striking a few lines out here and there and adding tons of other exceptions like the past few permitless carry bill authors did.

    This bill is the simplest and straight to the point permitless carry bill I've ever seen in SC.

    Here's a link to the bill's verbiage. You can see what's being struck out of current statutes and what little is added:

    http://scstatehouse.gov/sess119_2011...bills/1408.htm


    BUT, Representative Jake Knotts opposes the bill because it would allow someone to carry a firearm openly. This is the same man who opposes "restaurant carry" and is blocking all the pro gun bills he can. He throws around that he is a retired cop so people will be on his side. The funny thing is I've heard plenty of other law enforcement officers in SC say they wish everyone would be able to carry openly. Knotts is no friend to gun rights and liberty in general:

    http://www.thestate.com/2012/04/10/2...et-people.html

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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    The only thing I can see wrong with this bill is in Section 23-31-225. It makes a bad law even worse.

    The current verbiage of Section 23-31-225 makes it so that anyone with a CWP, that is carrying a "concealable weapon", has to have express permission from a property owner to enter their residence or dwelling place.

    Definition of a Concealable Weapon:
    "Concealable weapon" means a firearm having a length of less than twelve inches measured along its greatest dimension that must be carried in a manner that is hidden from public view in normal wear of clothing except when needed for self-defense, defense of others, and the protection of real or personal property.

    Anyway, the current law says nothing about a person that does NOT have a CWP. Basically, with the the way the law is currently written, anyone WITHOUT a CWP, can retrieve a lawfully stored "concealable weapon" from their vehicle and carry the "concealable weapon" into residence of another, without the owner's express permission.

    To me, that is rather ridiculous. Personally, I don't think permission should be needed to carry a firearm into a residence of another. If the owner of the residence does not want you to carry a firearm on the property, he/she should tell you. I only ask permission to enter a residence if I'm not invited, if I recieve permission, I don't ask for permission to carry my firearm inside, as well. Whether I'm invited or get permission to enter a property, I believe myself, and anything on my person, is invited/allowed, as well, unless the owner says something about it.

    This bill, S 1408, makes it so that anyone, CWP or not, carrying a "weapon" has to have express permission of the property owner to enter a residence or dwelling.

    The big kicker is that the term "weapon" is not defined anywhere in the statutes, and the author of the bill didn't define it. Therefore, the term is too ambiguous for me to support using it. With this bill's verbiage, someone could be charged for carrying a small pocket knife, pepper spray, or just by having strong arms by entering a residence/dwelling without express permission to enter with said "weapons".

    Here is the current law:

    SECTION 23-31-225. Carrying concealed weapons into residences or dwellings.

    No person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal control or possession, as appropriate. A person who violates this provision is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years.

    Here's this bill's (S 1408) verbiage:

    SECTION 5. Section 23-31-225 of the 1976 Code is amended to read:

    "Section 23-31-225. No person may carry a weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal control or possession, as appropriate. A person who violates this provision is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years."

  4. #4
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Not too many years ago Jakie WAS on our side. He did go over to the other side as we worked to liberalize SC gun carry. I worked as instructor safety observer at his free mass CWP classes at MCRC. Remember that there was no legal self-defense gun carry prior to 1996, just as there is no legal open carry not for hunting now.

  5. #5
    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Not too many years ago Jakie WAS on our side. He did go over to the other side as we worked to liberalize SC gun carry. I worked as instructor safety observer at his free mass CWP classes at MCRC. Remember that there was no legal self-defense gun carry prior to 1996, just as there is no legal open carry not for hunting now.
    What the heck happened to old Jakie to make him go to the "other side"?

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    Thumbs up The Big "Kicker"

    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech View Post
    The only thing I can see wrong with this bill is in Section 23-31-225. It makes a bad law even worse.

    The current verbiage of Section 23-31-225 makes it so that anyone with a CWP, that is carrying a "concealable weapon", has to have express permission from a property owner to enter their residence or dwelling place.

    Definition of a Concealable Weapon:
    "Concealable weapon" means a firearm having a length of less than twelve inches measured along its greatest dimension that must be carried in a manner that is hidden from public view in normal wear of clothing except when needed for self-defense, defense of others, and the protection of real or personal property.

    Anyway, the current law says nothing about a person that does NOT have a CWP. Basically, with the the way the law is currently written, anyone WITHOUT a CWP, can retrieve a lawfully stored "concealable weapon" from their vehicle and carry the "concealable weapon" into residence of another, without the owner's express permission.

    To me, that is rather ridiculous. Personally, I don't think permission should be needed to carry a firearm into a residence of another. If the owner of the residence does not want you to carry a firearm on the property, he/she should tell you. I only ask permission to enter a residence if I'm not invited, if I recieve permission, I don't ask for permission to carry my firearm inside, as well. Whether I'm invited or get permission to enter a property, I believe myself, and anything on my person, is invited/allowed, as well, unless the owner says something about it.

    This bill, S 1408, makes it so that anyone, CWP or not, carrying a "weapon" has to have express permission of the property owner to enter a residence or dwelling.

    The big kicker is that the term "weapon" is not defined anywhere in the statutes, and the author of the bill didn't define it. Therefore, the term is too ambiguous for me to support using it. With this bill's verbiage, someone could be charged for carrying a small pocket knife, pepper spray, or just by having strong arms by entering a residence/dwelling without express permission to enter with said "weapons".

    Here is the current law:




    Here's this bill's (S 1408) verbiage:

    I agree that the term "weapon" needs definition, but feel that in order to see OC in my lifetime I could submit to permission to enter a residence while OC. We need a statute with verbiage that will withstand our State Supreme Court whom I feel would love to strike it down.

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    Anything ever come of this proposal?

  8. #8
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech View Post
    Here's this bill's (S 1408) verbiage:
    "Session 119 - (2011-2012) INVALID DATA: s 1408"

    http://scstatehouse.gov/billsearch.p...=119&summary=B

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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    "Session 119 - (2011-2012) INVALID DATA: s 1408"

    http://scstatehouse.gov/billsearch.p...=119&summary=B
    That search field doesn't accept anything but the letters "A" & "R", numbers, and commas... or am I overlooking something in your post.

    http://scstatehouse.gov/billsearch.p...=119&summary=B

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    Regular Member Jay Jacobs's Avatar
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    Any news or updates on this? I'm also a GA resident and occasionally travel to SC.

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    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Jacobs View Post
    Any news or updates on this? I'm also a GA resident and occasionally travel to SC.
    The legislative session in South Carolina is over until next year. Pigs will probably fly before Jake Knotts and his buddies remove the restrictive, by government approved permission slip only, carry laws in this state...
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

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    Regular Member Jay Jacobs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hp-hobo View Post
    The legislative session in South Carolina is over until next year. Pigs will probably fly before Jake Knotts and his buddies remove the restrictive, by government approved permission slip only, carry laws in this state...
    Thanks for the update. Sounds like Knotts need to be thrown out on his ear in the next election.

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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Folks in Lexington, here's your chance to help SC get more pro gun legislation passed in the future, by putting Jake Knotts out on his arse:


    "Katrina Shealy has received official notification from the South Carolina Election Commission that her name will appear on the November 6 general election ballot."

    http://katrinashealy.com/blog/ready-...-here-we-come/


    "Knotts has said all along that he welcomes the electoral fight, even though he did everything in his power to make sure it didn’t happen."

    http://palmettopublicrecord.org/2012...eal-this-time/



  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Oklahoma shows the way forward. Fight hard for permitless carry, but accept the fallback of making OC legal with the license if you have to. Eventually, you'll go Arizona-style.

  15. #15
    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Anything more than what we have right now would be better.

    What did we get this past session, you ask? Holy smokes, us South Kakalakians are now allowed to buy long guns from states other than NC or GA! Oh my God, our masters are even letting us buy firearms that melt below 800 degrees! OH JOY!!!! Thanks be to the NRA!!!

    Lets all flippin' celebrate! [/sarcasm]

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    Shealy can't be any worse than Knotts, but before I vote for her I need to know her stance on gun rights as well. And does she have a chance to win?
    Last edited by 711; 08-13-2012 at 03:11 AM.

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    Regular Member John Canuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 711 View Post
    Shealy can't be any worse than Knotts, but before I vote for her I need to know her stance on gun rights as well. And does she have a chance to win?
    Visit her web site and see if she has a policy statement on the issue. Or, contact them and ask.

    Can she win? Only if people are active and vote. Recently, Courtney Rogers, a stay at home mom, defeated the anti-gun incumbent and House Republican Caucus chairwoman with the support of the NRA. Will the NRA step up in South Carolina?

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    Well the only thing I found on her site is a statement on the 2nd Amendment -

    Katrina Shealy is pro-second amendment.
    Katrina Shealy understands the responsibility of government to protect the right to bear arms—a fundamental freedom. She will stand up to those who would seek to jeopardize our God-given rights. We can count on her to always protect and defend our right to bear arms.

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    Regular Member John Canuck's Avatar
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    Well, after some significant effort at contacting dozens of people in the NRA, it's apparent that they are not interested in South Carolina and fixing an elected jerk who is anti-self defense. I hope sufficient people in that district are paying attention and will vote accordingly.

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    Regular Member Jay Jacobs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Canuck View Post
    Well, after some significant effort at contacting dozens of people in the NRA, it's apparent that they are not interested in South Carolina and fixing an elected jerk who is anti-self defense...
    For some reason I was thinking that's what the NRA did, at least in part. I joined last year but was hesitant to renew out of disgust for all the solicitations they're constantly sending me. This may have just helped me decide.

  21. #21
    Regular Member John Canuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Jacobs View Post
    For some reason I was thinking that's what the NRA did, at least in part. I joined last year but was hesitant to renew out of disgust for all the solicitations they're constantly sending me. This may have just helped me decide.
    Yeah, not so much. I would double dog dare the NRA to get involved and help campaign against someone who stands in the way of passing pro-gun legislation, but they wouldn't because they aren't interested in real on-the-ground gun issues as much as fund raising. I guess I'll save the $25 again this year.

  22. #22
    Regular Member John Canuck's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, I almost forgot about this little inconvenience:


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    Sen. Kevin Bryant says Open Carry bill ready to be filed again! 11/13/2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    http://www.thestate.com/2012/04/10/2...et-people.html

    SNIP

    SC Republican wants to let people pack openly

    COLUMBIA, S.C. — A Republican senator wants residents to be able to carry a gun openly.
    Sen. Kevin Bryant of Anderson introduced legislation Tuesday revising the state's concealed carry law, saying the Second Amendment doesn't use the words concealed permit.

    . . .
    Now that Jake Knotts was defeated by pro-gun Katrina Shealy I hope we can finally get an open carry bill passed for SC.

    Please Like my FB page to drum up support in SC:

    http://www.facebook.com/ISupportOpen...nSouthCarolina

  24. #24
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    What's this about "Sen. Kevin Bryant says Open Carry bill ready to be filed again! 11/13/2012"??

    cite?

  25. #25
    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    From the "I Support Open Carry in South Carolina" Facebook page:

    "Great News! Sen. Kevin Bryant emailed me back stating that the Open Carry Bill is ready to file. Please email him a thank you and let him know that you support open carry in SC and the 2nd amendment. his email: kevin@kevinbryant.com"

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