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Thread: Dilemma: Travon Hoodie Day at Seattle School...

  1. #1
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Dilemma: Travon Hoodie Day at Seattle School...

    ...but they aren't calling it that, they are calling it something like "National non-violence Day,"...something thereabouts.

    One of the wonderful things about having teenagers is that they are up for making statements. I have two teenagers, so far. And today they left the house wearing a hoodie, equipped with a Lemonade, and Skittles.

    Last night, and all of today I have been thinking about why I would, and why I did I allow my children to go to school like that. And I figured it out!: they ought to be their own individual, and if they believe that violence ought not occur, and want to make a statement, then I agree. We call can agree that the world would be a much better place if it wasn't necessary to be cornered into shooting another human being.--at least I hope all would agree!

    But then I can't help but think about the Zimmerman v. Martin case, and the total freaking mess that is surrounding it. At this point not one person can state definitively what the hell happen that night; and that might always be the case, no matter the legal outcome.

    I feel for Martin because I have teenagers (and a couple of younger children as well), I think it is unfortunate, and has to be devastating for Martin's parents to have lost their son; and Trayvon himself, staring down the end of the business end of a sidearm, and that being the last thing he had likely seen.

    I wonder what both men were thinking, Trayvon, if he was being followed at night by some unknown man, and Zimmerman, if he was confronted by Trayvon. I am sure they both felt threatened. And I suppose that raises a number of questions such as: If Zimmerman was following Trayvon, and Trayvon turned around to confront Zimmerman because Trayvon felt threatened, was Trayvon in the right? I say yes, he was in the right to turn around and confront Zimmerman. Stand Your Ground would work both ways, wouldn't it?


    I feel for Zimmerman because I have been in that position. I have had my sights on a person, and pulled the trigger; the man I shot, fortunately, did not die though. What Zimmerman has to deal with is much worse, IMO, than what I had to deal with, as I did not end the life of the person I shot, thank goodness. Zimmerman wishing to apologize to the parents of Trayvon is completely understandable. After I had shot the man who attacked me, I had a deep desire to send him flowers, and my thoughts were a mix of rage that he had forced me to shoot, and deep emotional upset that I had injured a person in that way. Even now, three years later, there are many things that run through my mind; and Zimmerman will be haunted by what had happened, whether it was the right thing to do, or the wrong thing.--it seems that Zimmerman is distraught about the whole situation, and being raked over the coals in the media just adds to the weight that is his to carry.

    Some say there ought to be justice for Trayvon; other say there ought to be justice for Zimmerman; I say that there ought to be justice!--whatever the hell that even means!

    When it comes to a shooting incident, both parties lose--he person pulling the trigger, and the person that's shot; what both parties is left with (assuming both survive) are degrees of losing, and that takes it's toll on the mind, and the body.

    But I digress... We can instill to the best of our ability 'good things' in our children, but at the end of the day they are going to walk out that door into a world, away from us as parents, and make decisions.

    I suppose my question to others on here is: Would you have allowed your child to go to school as I did this morning?
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Its simple. Don't assault someone just because you don't want them following you. Sitting on someones chest bashing their head into the ground is not self defense, its assault at least.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    Its simple. Don't assault someone just because you don't want them following you. Sitting on someones chest bashing their head into the ground is not self defense, its assault at least.
    I agree with what you posted--if that is what actually happened.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I agree with what you posted--if that is what actually happened.
    We'll probably never know.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,!!

    I award you,, 5 Stars for your Original Post!

    Your words and thoughts have touched my heart, my emotions, my being,
    in a way that I dont usually let married ladies do...

    Ive seen how your kids are. You are doing a fine job!
    Ive never been so proud of a Liberal, Lesbian, Statist in my life... I mean that, Yea I really am proud of you!

    I wish I could give you a hug. Take care Sara, best wishes, Bob
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Thank you 1245A Defender. I would like to get the family out to the next OC shindig.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    ...but they aren't calling it that, they are calling it something like "National non-violence Day,"...something thereabouts.

    One of the wonderful things about having teenagers is that they are up for making statements. I have two teenagers, so far. And today they left the house wearing a hoodie, equipped with a Lemonade, and Skittles.

    Last night, and all of today I have been thinking about why I would, and why I did I allow my children to go to school like that. And I figured it out!: they ought to be their own individual, and if they believe that violence ought not occur, and want to make a statement, then I agree. We call can agree that the world would be a much better place if it wasn't necessary to be cornered into shooting another human being.--at least I hope all would agree!

    But then I can't help but think about the Zimmerman v. Martin case, and the total freaking mess that is surrounding it. At this point not one person can state definitively what the hell happen that night; and that might always be the case, no matter the legal outcome.

    I feel for Martin because I have teenagers (and a couple of younger children as well), I think it is unfortunate, and has to be devastating for Martin's parents to have lost their son; and Trayvon himself, staring down the end of the business end of a sidearm, and that being the last thing he had likely seen.

    I wonder what both men were thinking, Trayvon, if he was being followed at night by some unknown man, and Zimmerman, if he was confronted by Trayvon. I am sure they both felt threatened. And I suppose that raises a number of questions such as: If Zimmerman was following Trayvon, and Trayvon turned around to confront Zimmerman because Trayvon felt threatened, was Trayvon in the right? I say yes, he was in the right to turn around and confront Zimmerman. Stand Your Ground would work both ways, wouldn't it?


    I feel for Zimmerman because I have been in that position. I have had my sights on a person, and pulled the trigger; the man I shot, fortunately, did not die though. What Zimmerman has to deal with is much worse, IMO, than what I had to deal with, as I did not end the life of the person I shot, thank goodness. Zimmerman wishing to apologize to the parents of Trayvon is completely understandable. After I had shot the man who attacked me, I had a deep desire to send him flowers, and my thoughts were a mix of rage that he had forced me to shoot, and deep emotional upset that I had injured a person in that way. Even now, three years later, there are many things that run through my mind; and Zimmerman will be haunted by what had happened, whether it was the right thing to do, or the wrong thing.--it seems that Zimmerman is distraught about the whole situation, and being raked over the coals in the media just adds to the weight that is his to carry.

    Some say there ought to be justice for Trayvon; other say there ought to be justice for Zimmerman; I say that there ought to be justice!--whatever the hell that even means!

    When it comes to a shooting incident, both parties lose--he person pulling the trigger, and the person that's shot; what both parties is left with (assuming both survive) are degrees of losing, and that takes it's toll on the mind, and the body.

    But I digress... We can instill to the best of our ability 'good things' in our children, but at the end of the day they are going to walk out that door into a world, away from us as parents, and make decisions.

    I suppose my question to others on here is: Would you have allowed your child to go to school as I did this morning?

    This is the most informed, non biased, educated post I've ever read want this case.

    Everywhere else it's making the kid out to be the bad guy.


    *swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    They would have had a complete understanding of the matter before I even entertained the thought of opening the door. You know, the kind where they roll their eyes and start to fidget. Heck, since they're so concerned, I think I would have them write a 500 word essay on the pros, cons, and unknowns of the case, including a credible defense of Martin as well as Zimmerman structured as a formal debate (they do have a debate club in school, right?), as well as other cases that didn't turn out like the public 'thought.' I would also have them verbalize why such a protest is important to them. Then and only then would I consider setting them loose. Critical thinking is a powerful educator.

    If they still feel that such attire is appropriate, consider DNA testing. Maybe they were switched at birth. JK!
    Last edited by paramedic70002; 04-14-2012 at 10:52 AM.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    [snippers] Critical thinking is a powerful educator.

    [snippers]
    I agree. And critical thinking is taught in the home.


    Maybe they were switched at birth. JK!
    They are little blonde-haired German kids; they look like their mom, that's for sure.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    No.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post

    I suppose my question to others on here is: Would you have allowed your child to go to school as I did this morning?
    Probably. It seems to me that idealism belongs with youth.

    I was all about saving people, whales and trees as a teenager. It felt right. It fades as you grow up though.

    I'd let them go definitely. I would just try to explain all sides to them and let them decide.
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

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    Hell no.


    Everyday the Detroit news channels show thugs killing thugs, they show how wearing the wrong color hoodie can get you killed, why anybody would allow their kids to dress like these low lives is beyond me. I guess I am a bad parent because I also encourage my daughters to wear a belt so their ass isn't hanging out of their pants.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Did they want to wear a hoodie because they thought it would bring awareness to street violence, or did they want to wear it because everyone else was and they are too weak to be different and think for themselves?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  15. #15
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Did they want to wear a hoodie because they thought it would bring awareness to street violence, or did they want to wear it because everyone else was and they are too weak to be different and think for themselves?
    My kids don't typically wear hoodies, and in talking to them, it seemed that they wanted to show support for the so-called Youth Day Of non-Violence (or some name like that). My kids wear layers, eighties clothes, I am lucky, IMO, when it comes to my kids style of dress; it's cheap, they love the second-hand stores.

    I am sure there are a number of reasons for the Hoodie Day, I just made sure my kids were informed about what is going on, and that the issue is complicated, and not everything that is being stated in school, nor on the news reflects what actually happened. They have to decide for themselves about how they feel about the situation, it's not my place to tell them what their conclusions ought to be.--I can show them how to work through issues, but that's where it ought to stop, IMO.

    I was just curious if other with children would have let their children go to school as I did.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 04-17-2012 at 12:20 AM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  16. #16
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Did your kids articulate, why they decided to wear a hoodie to school that day.

    Did your kids articulate, why a hoodie is, or should be, emblematic of 'National non-violence Day'?

    Did your kids articulate, why lemonade, and Skittles are, or should be, emblematic of 'National non-violence Day'?

    Was this the first 'National non-violence Day'? If not, did they attend previous 'National non-violence Day' events? Did they wear hoodies on previous 'National non-violence Day' events?

    Does the school plan on conducting another 'National non-violence Day' if they sanctioned the event this year?

    Will hoodies be the recommended attire for the next 'National non-violence Day'?

    Will lemonade and Skittles be the recommended equipment for the next 'National non-violence Day'?

    It seems that your kids have concluded that the hoodie, lemonade, and Skittles represents non-violence.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  17. #17
    Regular Member lysander6's Avatar
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    Beretta92FSLady: Would you have allowed your child to go to school as I did this morning?

    No, we home-school and I would never allow my children to attend one of those re-education camps and mind laundries.

    What I find most laughable about the schools preaching and teaching a "non-violence day" is that everyday in the government schools is a celebration of the state's right to initiate force against others and reserve the right to maintain a police state that fines, kidnaps, cages, maims and kills disobedient citizens whether they have committed a crime or not. A true national non-violence day would be a total withdrawal of consent to be ruled and a refusal to comply with the tens of thousands of laws that have turned America into a penal colony where the inmates are trained to bow to authority at every level and even sing songs and wave fabric to celebrate their chains and shackles.

    Statism is a mental illness where your neighbor is considered your property.

    There is no justice system, only a legal system.
    Gun Control is Mind Control.

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  18. #18
    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander6 View Post
    Statism is a mental illness where your neighbor is considered your property.

    There is no justice system, only a legal system.
    Hyperbole much?
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

  19. #19
    Regular Member lysander6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    Hyperbole much?
    Certainly is a useful literary device to drive a point home.

    I take it that your contention is that justice is always served in our wonderful legal system?
    Gun Control is Mind Control.

    My Blog: http://zerogov.com/

  20. #20
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    D

    It seems that your kids have concluded that the hoodie, lemonade, and Skittles represents non-violence.
    It does seem to be the case, doesn't it. Don't most kids associate those things? I suppose as an alternative they ought to have brought a couple of my handguns to school, and a dead African American since there seems to be an epidemic of violence in the African American community.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  21. #21
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander6 View Post
    Beretta92FSLady: Would you have allowed your child to go to school as I did this morning?

    No, we home-school and I would never allow my children to attend one of those re-education camps and mind laundries.

    What I find most laughable about the schools preaching and teaching a "non-violence day" is that everyday in the government schools is a celebration of the state's right to initiate force against others and reserve the right to maintain a police state that fines, kidnaps, cages, maims and kills disobedient citizens whether they have committed a crime or not. A true national non-violence day would be a total withdrawal of consent to be ruled and a refusal to comply with the tens of thousands of laws that have turned America into a penal colony where the inmates are trained to bow to authority at every level and even sing songs and wave fabric to celebrate their chains and shackles.

    Statism is a mental illness where your neighbor is considered your property.

    There is no justice system, only a legal system.
    You are correct, there is no Justice.

    As far as public schools being re-education camps, I suppose that's why it is imperative that as a parent you teach your children how to reason in the face of stupidity. But then I suppose your children aren't exposed to the trenches being educated at home. I home-schooled my children for a year, then sent them back to public school. The most effective way to counter stupidity is to understand what it is the individual is being stupid about; you must think like the idiot--not be the idiot.

    I do believe in America we have millions of laws, I could be wrong though. This is just Federal Laws: "The current edition of the code was published in 2006, and according to the US Government Printing Office, is over 200,000 pages long" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Code

    Now, there is no number on the laws that I could find, but 200,000 pages is significant. That doesn't count City, State, etc.

    Statism is just like all other "isms," I suppose Capitalism is a mental illness as well?

    I really enjoy interacting with some of you. It's nice to get a view into the lives, and processes of others.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 04-17-2012 at 12:41 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  22. #22
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander6 View Post
    Certainly is a useful literary device to drive a point home.

    I take it that your contention is that justice is always served in our wonderful legal system?
    Justice is merely a feel-good notion.

    You drove your point home, I assure you.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 04-17-2012 at 12:59 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  23. #23
    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander6 View Post
    Certainly is a useful literary device to drive a point home.

    I take it that your contention is that justice is always served in our wonderful legal system?
    The word justice is meaningless. At best it's revenge. Not that I have a problem with revenge.

    One should be able to make a point without falsehoods and exaggerations methinks.

    Hyperbole just reinforces the image of extremist nutcase. If the goal is preaching to the choir then have at it. If the goal is to make a point to someone other than the choir then it is the wrong literary tool.

    Personally I would refrain from using literary devices at all because they belong in stories and poems, not statements of fact, theses, debates or discussions.

    Shrug...
    Last edited by Stanley; 04-17-2012 at 12:58 PM.
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

  24. #24
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    The word justice is meaningless.[snippers]
    You need to be careful bursting a persons bubble in this way. Shrugs...

    Justice is at best Revenge; which is all a person has at the point where they are seeking Justice.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  25. #25
    Regular Member lysander6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    The word justice is meaningless. At best it's revenge. Not that I have a problem with revenge.

    One should be able to make a point without falsehoods and exaggerations methinks.

    Hyperbole just reinforces the image of extremist nutcase. If the goal is preaching to the choir then have at it. If the goal is to make a point to someone other than the choir then it is the wrong literary tool.

    Personally I would refrain from using literary devices at all because they belong in stories and poems, not statements of fact, theses, debates or discussions.

    Shrug...
    Stanley,

    I say this with the sincerest gentlemanly comportment; how we use our words is important and I would point out that your Washington quote is all of that and more but drives the point home with that much more ferocity, makes it stick. If you don't care for the merits of my arguments, lay on, I am always willing to learn or correct someone who needs further elucidation.
    Gun Control is Mind Control.

    My Blog: http://zerogov.com/

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