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Thread: OC with CCW question

  1. #1
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    OC with CCW question

    Ok, so i really don't like taking somebodies "word" for granted when people tell me things. regardless if it's this subject, car subjects or anything else. I like to research.

    But sometimes i have to ask for help with the research. specially with something as touchy with legal/illegal as guns.

    So I was under the impression that having the CCW gives you ADDED benefits with open carrying.

    but today I had another carrier tell me that I was ILLEGAL for open carrying if i had a CCW on me.


    So I'm asking you to help me clear this up. because I don't remember reading anything that said "if you have a CCW on you, you can NOT open carry.


    Did i miss something in the books anywhere???


    To explain what I was doing, incase anybody else sees something I may have been doing wrong if at all. I was working on my property all day, carrying as usually in a OWB holster, and then had to run some errands and after that rode my bike 1hour to a friends house to help him work on his bike. I carried all day, on and off the bike, and in the stores. Part way through the day another friend with CCW joined, and saw me open carrying and asked if i had a CCW. I said "yes". He asked if i had it with me. I said "yes". That's when he told me I was illegal. Him and me have already had some other small disagreements over stuff, and I usually try to e-mail him with links to where what is actually written in the law, rather than just "he said, she said" type stuff. So this time i just ended the conversation immediately with "how about we just agree to disagree for right now" since i didn't want to get into yet another discussion that wasn't going anywhere.

    so what do ya think???

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    You are correct SV. The next time someone says that to you, ask for a statute. They'll get a surprised look on their face, then embarrassment, or become completely retarded and say you have to CC if you have your CCL. At that point, just laugh and them and walk away.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Your friend needs to recheck his sources. Page 28 will sort out his confusion.


    "If I get a CCW license does that affect my ability to openly carry a firearm?
    No. Unless expressly provided, the licensure statute does not limit an individual’s right to carry a firearm that is not concealed. Wis. Stat. § 175.60(2)(c)."


    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/..._questions.pdf

  4. #4
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio_vette View Post
    Part way through the day another friend with CCW joined, and saw me open carrying and asked if i had a CCW. I said "yes". He asked if i had it with me. I said "yes". That's when he told me I was illegal.
    I think that this is a training failure. Was his training free or for fee? Who was his trainer? That's who should be denigrated here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    I think that this is a training failure. Was his training free or for fee? Who was his trainer? That's who should be denigrated here.
    You Sir are correct. I e-mailed him back and asked him where he is getting his information from, and he said that's what the instructor in the class he took said (some $50 class a merriot hotel or something like that. he was also complaining about how every second word out of the instructors mouth was mother**** this and mother**** that, and the students ended up actually telling him to clean up his act and stop swearing so much for the rest of the class). Now that he saw 175.60(2)(c) he believes me.

    He's rather upset. I told him "now you see why i don't take peoples words for granted. i consider what they have to say and research it to see if i just learned something new, or if they are wrong, because last thing i need is to get arrested because i followed "hearsay". to which he replied: "i would think a class taught by a NRA certified instructor should be accurate, and not just considered "hearsay".
    I just replied with........"when the cops don't even know half the laws, you can't actually expect that EVERY instructor is going to know all the facts, OR CARE about having all the facts right."

    I can only imagine that there are alot of people who are using this sudden change in law as a "scam" to make quick money by offering cheap classes to lure in lots of people, sign some waivers and cash in.


    I'm glad that I took the class from someone on this forum who i've seen post alot of good information, offer lots of help, and seen her talked good about on this forum. But I'm sure she was also rather annoyed teaching me, because I did question ALOT of things, or asked for more detailed examples. Some people say i pick things apart to much or ask to many questions. I have always said: "better one to many questions and get it right, than not enough questions and screw something up".

    thanks again for the help.

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio_vette View Post
    I'm glad that I took the class from someone on this forum who i've seen post alot of good information, offer lots of help, and seen her talked good about on this forum. But I'm sure she was also rather annoyed teaching me, because I did question ALOT of things, or asked for more detailed examples. Some people say i pick things apart to much or ask to many questions. I have always said: "better one to many questions and get it right, than not enough questions and screw something up".
    If you are talking about MKEgal, I'm sure she didn't mind the questions at all.

    Carry on my friend!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  7. #7
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio_vette
    that's what the instructor in the class he took said (some $50 class a merriot hotel or something like that. he was also complaining about how every second word out of the instructors mouth was mother**** this and mother**** that, and the students ended up actually telling him to clean up his act and stop swearing so much for the rest of the class).
    When I was looking for which instructor class I'd take, there was a great deal on a local class by an out-of-state instructor. When I asked a contact of mine (who trains the people who train instructors) for his recommendation, he pointed out that there might be a good reason the out-of-state instructor wasn't teaching in his home area. Locals want to keep a good reputation among peers & students. People who travel, their reps can't exactly catch up with them as easily.

    [Before someone brings up Jim as an example, he used to live here & still owns property here. I'm talking about the carpetbaggers from FL & so on.]

    he replied: "i would think a class taught by a NRA certified instructor should be accurate, and not just considered "hearsay".
    First off, yes, information presented should be accurate to the best of the instructor's knowledge. That's part of why I provide citations to the laws - so people can read them on their own.
    If he didn't even take the time to read the DOJ FAQ, let alone Act 35, how could he be teaching about the new laws?

    Second, if that instructor was behaving so badly that the class had to correct him, the NRA training department needs to know about it. It'd be worse if he'd been presenting an NRA class, but when he put forth his NRA credentials he accepted their requirements.

    The ethics guide includes things like competence, integrity, "avoid false or deceptive statements", "avoid engaging in conduct that is demeaning to participants".
    Here's an online contact form for NRA HQ, with a couple other ways to contact them.


    I can only imagine that there are alot of people who are using this sudden change in law as a "scam" to make quick money by offering cheap classes to lure in lots of people, sign some waivers and cash in.
    I had a guy from desMoines email me wanting me to teach for his 'company'... when I did some research, he was charging $50-170 per person, packing people into a hotel ballroom, but he told me he pays instructors $100-150 per 3-hour lecture.
    Pretty good racket for him, huh? He didn't have to travel, only handle registration & payment & set up the room rental. His name isn't on those certificates, he's not the one the lawyers will be talking to if one of those people is involved in a DGU.
    I'm not arguing he shouldn't be paid, but the system he has set up isn't fair.
    I told him no, & laid out the multiple reasons why.


    I'm sure she was also rather annoyed teaching me, because I did question ALOT of things, or asked for more detailed examples.
    LOL! I don't mind discussing situations.
    My only annoyance was that I hadn't expected something that usually took me 3.5-4h with a dozen people to take longer than that with one person.
    I understand that's a common error. A much more experienced instructor told me that with a moderate to large class people don't usually ask as many questions. When they feel more comfortable, their questions get answered.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 04-15-2012 at 02:07 PM.

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