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Thread: Lawrence county Ky deprives citizens of constitutional rights, and violates state law

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    Lawrence county Ky deprives citizens of constitutional rights, and violates state law

    Met with the county attorney of Lawrence county this morning, if you would call it that. The attorneys name is mike hogan, and he is running on a VERY PRO 2A platform for Commonwealth Attorney in Lawrence County. He says he is PRO 2A, yet he has no understanding of state firearm law, which causes some concern. This is a man who I believe is trying to deceive voters by claiming to support our right to keep and BEAR arms,
    when he has made it so blatantly obvious he does not respect that right, or the rule of law in our great state! He does not respect statutes passed by the STATE legislature to keep locales from doing what Lawrence is doing, depriving citizens, (who he works for and is paid by), of their rights granted to them by the state and federal constitutions, and state law. I have given him, the county judge/exec. John Osbourne, and the county sheriff all documents pertaining to the issue of prohibiting citizens from openly carrying in the county courthouse, sherrif's dept., and any other non court of justice building, and they refuse to comply. They insist they can Enforce the no carry provision of their ILLEGAL ordinance, and also arrest for violating this ordinance! I should state that they do not even have signs posted which they must have in order for the "no concealed weapons" part to even be enforceable, as stated in KRS 237.115, and as everyone knows, and should know if you are a county attorney, you can not arrest or threaten arrest for violating the "no concealed weapons" part of the ordinance, (the only legal part).

    The documents I have given them and they admitted they received are state statutes 237.115, 65.870(amended), Kentucky League of Cities documents that inform of what they can and can't do, and the document that verifies you can not prohibit, especially not remove and threaten arrest, anyone who is openly carrying a firearm in a meeting of a governing body (Fiscal Court Meeting). I attempted today to give the CA copies of all relevant AG opinions, but he violently ripped them out of my hands and threw them on the ground, (you can hear this in the audio). I was barred from ever entering the county courthouse again while carrying, I was threatened to be
    arrested, I was illegally detained, was threatened with arrest again, was told it was illegal to carry in their COUNTY courthouse, was told by the "sheriff" that SB161? Did not pass, I informed him HB500 did pass and was the only new statute that pertains to this issue, and he said it did not because all it dealt with was "some stamp placed on a firearm manufactured in Ky?" I believe he was speaking of the KFFA, which has nothing to do with the issue at hand, and they tried to persuade me to enter the sherrif dept. Knowing I was carrying concealed, (entrapment). I will post the audio when I get to a computer, and a lawsuit is going to be files on several officials in Lawrence County and the County itself.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 04-16-2012 at 06:08 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Met with the county attorney of Lawrence county this morning, if you would call it that. The attorneys name is mike hogan, and he is running on a VERY PRO 2A platform for Commonwealth Attorney in Lawrence County. He says he is PRO 2A, yet he has no understanding of state firearm law, which causes some concern. This is a man who is trying to deceive voters by claiming to support our right to keep and BEAR arms,
    when he has made it so blatantly obvious he does not respect that right, or the rule of law in our great state! He does not respect statutes passed by the STATE legislature to keep locales from doing what Lawrence is doing, depriving citizens, (who he works for and is paid by), of their rights granted to them by the state and federal constitutions, and state law. I have given him, the county
    judge/exec. John Osbourne, and the county sherrif all documents pertaining to the issue of prohibiting citizens from openly carrying in the county courthouse, sherrif's dept., and any other non court of justice building, and
    they refuse to comply. They insist they can Enforce the no carry provision of their ILLEGAL ordinance, and also arrest for violating this ordinance! I should state they do not even have signs posted which they must have in order for the "no concealed weapons" part to even be enforceable, as stated in KRS 237.115, and as everyone knows, and should know if you are a county attorney, you can not arrest or threaten arrest for violating the "no concealed weapons" part of the ordinance, (the only legal part).

    The documents I have given them and they admitted they received are state statutes 237.115, 65.870(amended), Kentucky League of Cities documents that inform of what they can and can't do, and the document that verifies you can not prohibit, especially not remove and threaten arrest, anyone who is openly carrying a firearm. I attempted today to give the CA copies of all relevant AG opinions, but he violently ripped them out of my hands and threw them on the ground, (you can hear this in the audio). I was barred from ever entering the county courthouse again while carrying, I was threatened to be
    arrested, I was illegally detained, was threatened with arrest again, was told it was illegal to carry in their courthouse, was told by the "sherrif" that SB161? Did not pass, I informed him HB500 did pass and was the only new statute that pertains to this issue, and he said it did not because all it dealt with was "some stamp placed on a firearm manufactured in Ky?" I believe he was speaking of the KFFA, which has nothing to do with the issue at hand, and they tried to persuade me to enter the sherrif dept. Knowing I was carrying concealed, (entrapment). I will post the audio when I get to a computer, and a lawsuit is going to be files on several officials in Lawrence County and the County itself.
    Blows my mind. Your services obviously were needed there far worse than they where needed here in Owingsville. I would like to hear the audio..even though it will piss me off. This is easy for me to say since its not my fighting this particular battle, but please dont give up. Push the hell out of this and make them pay.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    I most certainly will not back down, they are breaking the law and must be held accountable!

    Does anyone know how to ask for an AG opinion? This is so clearly a violation of state law, and they say it is not! They say OC is not allowed and an arrestable offense in fiscal court meetings! They surely can't be this ignorant about state law. They tried saying local ordinances trump state law, and that they have "home rule" abilities to do as they wish with the issue at hand. They refuse to look at the AG opinion that explicitly says they can't violate krs 65.870, or the fact that "home rule" does not apply if it is in violation of the constitution or of a state statute!!!
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 04-16-2012 at 03:05 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    There was a lady closet to my area that recently had an opinion issued over a public meeting deal, so I'm sure I can ask for an opinion on this issue.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Removed
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 04-16-2012 at 04:33 PM.
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    Regular Member Statesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    I most certainly will not back down, they are breaking the law and must be held accountable!

    Does anyone know how to ask for an AG opinion? This is so clearly a violation of state law, and they say it is not! They say OC is not allowed and an arrestable offense in fiscal court meetings! They surely can't be this ignorant about state law. They tried saying local ordinances trump state law, and that they have "home rule" abilities to do as they wish with the issue at hand. They refuse to look at the AG opinion that explicitly says they can't violate krs 65.870, or the fact that "home rule" does not apply if it is in violation of the constitution or of a state statute!!!
    Ask them what charge they would arrest you on. It's not going to hold up in court. This sounds like a perfect opportunity for a lawsuit under USC 42 1983, and a nice settlement for someone who is willing to go through the process of being arrested, and obtaining a lawyer.
    Last edited by Statesman; 04-16-2012 at 03:51 PM.

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    anyone have any idea how to make an audio file shorter? It will not allow me to upload because it is too large. I could cut almost 5 minutes off of it.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    anyone have any idea how to make an audio file shorter? It will not allow me to upload because it is too large. I could cut almost 5 minutes off of it.
    Convert it to mp3. That should do it.

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    I have not done anything on a computer other than type and surf the net for probably 10 years. I used to be fairly knowledgable on these issues, but that is no longer the case. I have no idea how to convert the format of an audio file.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Is it on your computer? Do you have the original uncut file?


    I say put it on youtube. That should work if you could upload it to your computer (I don't see why you wouldn't be able to).

    Also, check your texts.
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 04-16-2012 at 04:51 PM.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Downloaded, but it will not let me upload the file until I change the extension. If someone could walk me through that I will gladly post it.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Well then if they "know" they are right, I will ask them to request an opinion on the issue. If they refuse to do so, I will simply play the waiting game, and take them to court. It will be an easy victory, because I have the law on my side, and they have been informed several times, with audio recordings of every encounter, that they are in violation of several state statutes. I believe if they was going to arrest, they would have done so today when they threatened us with it several times. I must have confused you somehow, the county courthouse does not have any security, sorry if I mislead you. I do plan on contacting the local paper in Ashland, and I believe there is an online paper in Louisa, and if so I will contact them as well. I also plan on contacting our local news channels to see if they would be interested in running a story on this issue. It would certainly make for good television if things happened as they did today. I am going to try contacting them once more, although I have been in contact with them four times now, and each time they say they are right, and I am wrong. I will let them find out how right I am in the courtroom if they refuse to change this ordinance. I just can not believe this guy actually thinks he can arrest someone for carrying a firearm in a county building. I do not understand how a county attorney can be so ignorant of the law, especially when I have placed all relevant information on a silver platter right in front of his face. It is rather obvious his "authority" has never been questioned before.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Play the file and record thru your computer with audacity. Then save as mp3.

    Ok. Will do, thanks.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    No need for a AGO here. That issue has already been covered. Read AGO 99-10. Home Rule is exactly what the City of Louisville argued in 1999. I didn't fly, 99-10 is very explicit. Home Rule does not allow a city to violate the state constitution or any state statute.
    I tried giving this very opinion to him and he ripped it out of my hand and threw it down. He said he didn't care what the attorney general said. He will not listen to anything you have to say, and that will be his downfall. When he is charged with Official Misconduct, and not able to hold the office of County Attorney or Commonwealth Attorney, maybe then he will wish he had listened to us.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 04-16-2012 at 06:58 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Gutshot, I don't think you understand. This man seemed to think he was in a yelling match with himself. Glockster, the sheriff, a deputy and I were all calm and collect. He was being childish the whole time. I do not think he will listen to reason.

    Also, is there something illegal about campaigning on courthouse property?
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    I tried giving this very opinion to him and he ripped it out of my hand and threw it down. He said he didn't care what the attorney general said. He will not listen to anything you have to say, and that will be his downfall. When he is charged with Official Misconduct, and not able to hold the office of County Attorney or Commonwealth Attorney, maybe then he will wish he had listened to us.
    I know almost all of the players in this drama (on the county side). The problem is you can file a complaint for Official Misconduct, but a judge has to sign it and a prosecutor has to prosecute it. In this case the subject of the complaint is the prosecutor. Here is where you will run into your problem. You are going up against the "system". The system doesn't feed upon itself easily.

    Most who have practiced civil disobedience have been willing to be arrested and jailed to prove their point. They often lost in court initially, but with the help of good lawyers and often legislatures, they most often prevailed.

    If you are willing to pay the initial price, arrest and attorney fee's, you will prevail, IMO. Then you can move into Federal Court, with more attorney fee's, and hope for the best. The question is are you ready to be the test case?

    It is a shame that these things usually come down to this, but often it does.

    As an after thought, does he have any opposition for the CA position? You might be able to work with his opponent to apply pressure on a political front.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    I am willing to take the fall if need be. I was about to tell them to take their false authority and shove it, but I figured that might have ended the same way for Glockster too. He was down here helping me, I didn't want him to spend the night in jail for my actions. I do not think this will end without a huge black mark on all involved on that end. It makes Hogan sound very pro 2A when he is threatening people for violation of an illegal ordinance that he refuses to do anything about.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Im not sure I'd do anything yet to get arrested. I would probably bide my time and speak with an attorney and get ready for when HB500 becomes law in July and have your ducks in a row to lay down a solid case.

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    Not that it'd help much at all, but, anyone else feeling itchy for a lil OC get together in force at this place? peacefully carrying as a large group? I'm sure theres more of us then there are LEO's. Call in the media, or have our families on the side video taping everything we did, and everything said. There was 11 or so of us at the Lex M&G, plus the ones who go to the Ash M&G
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    Apparently Lawrence county does not have an express way to void ordinances. I was told when I asked to put this on the agenda that it takes TWO readings and advertising of both before a vote. It will be a minimum of two more months before this is gone. So I might be without my right to defense on county property until then as the Sheriff and County Attorney are insistent on enforcing this ordinance as long as it is in force.

    Edit, I also have five copies of the illegal ordinance now.
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 04-18-2012 at 11:59 AM.
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    If you have access to a scanner can you scan one and post it here? Whatever happened to that audio file of the meeting that was coming to the board soon?

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    KYGlockster had the audio. I did not have a recorder at that time. Now I understand the full importance of having one.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Sorry guys, I can't seem to get over this bug. Good thing we didn't get arrested, cause it sure would've sucked setting in jail feeling like this!

    What this guy does not understand is this: THIS ORDINANCE IS VIOLATING STATE LAW, and CAN'T BE ENFORCED! The only part that IS ENFORCEABLE is the "no concealed weapons in buildings!" Even then, if you was a competent individual and actually read the STATUTES that govern your counties ability to regulate firearms, THE COUNTY CAN'T DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN ASK YOU TO LEAVE if they discover you are carrying concealed, or you can uncover and carry openly!

    I'm thrilled he acted the way he did. I have been advised to wait this out, SAVE THE
    AUDIO, and take him and the sheriff to court.

    Here are the facts, that even us peons that do not have a law degree understand:

    KRS 65.870- prohibits locales from enacting ANY restrictions on firearms, unless the state legislature specifically passes a bill into law that allows them to do so.

    KRS 237.115- this statute gives locales the authority to ban CONCEALED firearms INSIDE BUILDINGS they CONTROL, which would be the county courthouse we were REMOVED
    from. The courthouse has the county clerk's office, county attorney's office, judge/exec.'s office, PVA, notice these are all PUBLIC OFFICES! The courthouse ANNEX is located to the right of the county courthouse, and obviously, it holds courtrooms for court of justice, circuit clerk, etc., needless to say we can not enter into this building!, and I would venture to guess this annex has metal detectors!
    This statute also makes it VERY CLEAR you can't arrest someone for violating the "no concealed weapons provision. It also make it clear, that in order for this ordinance to be effective, signs must be posted at all entrances to buildings where "no concealed" weapons are allowed!

    I can't even list all of the AG opinions that pertain to these issues, or the Supreme Court of KY's ruling that says no one can question our right to openly carry a firearm! Apparently this guy didn't get the memo!

    I would like to thank him though, and every other city and county out there that believe they can ignore state law, and claim "home rule status," even though the very rule they claim gives them this right to regulate firearms says they do not have "home rule" authority if the ordinance violates the state CONSTITUTION or STATE LAW! If it was not for locales such as Lawrence county who choose to violate state law and our rights, we wouldn't have worked so hard to obtain one of the strongest firearm preemption statutes in the country, (newly amended KRS 65.870; HB500 for the sheriff, look it up, I gave you copies to!), and we would still not have the right to take these individuals to court! But, most importantly, we now can have their "immunity," (granted to them under section 231 of the state constitution), stripped from them, and can have them charged with OFFICIAL MISCONDUCT!

    This very statute grants the authority to have him charged, when he is found to be in violation of state firearm preemption, and the one refusing to A) Stop enforcing the illegal ordinance, and B) Refusing to inform the county of their ordinances' violation of state law!
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 04-18-2012 at 02:21 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Not that it'd help much at all, but, anyone else feeling itchy for a lil OC get together in force at this place? peacefully carrying as a large group? I'm sure theres more of us then there are LEO's. Call in the media, or have our families on the side video taping everything we did, and everything said. There was 11 or so of us at the Lex M&G, plus the ones who go to the Ash M&G
    Isaac and myself were discussing this. We should attend the fiscal court meeting, and have about ten of us show up. I really don't understand why they can't comprehend that this ordinance is illegal, and therefore unenforceable. Even Lexington and Louisville realized this, and these are two of the biggest, most corrupt cities in the state. Sure will be a black eye for little ol' Lawrence County to be in the same arena.

    These are PUBlIC OPEN MEETINGS afterall.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    This may be a nice thing to have if you're willing to fork out the money for it.


    http://www.galls.com/google/uniforms...FYReTAodpU7jtw
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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