Lawrence county Ky deprives citizens of constitutional rights, and violates state law

If you have access to a scanner can you scan one and post it here? Whatever happened to that audio file of the meeting that was coming to the board soon?

KYGlockster had the audio. I did not have a recorder at that time. Now I understand the full importance of having one.

Sorry guys, I can't seem to get over this bug. Good thing we didn't get arrested, cause it sure would've sucked setting in jail feeling like this!

What this guy does not understand is this: THIS ORDINANCE IS VIOLATING STATE LAW, and CAN'T BE ENFORCED! The only part that IS ENFORCEABLE is the "no concealed weapons in buildings!" Even then, if you was a competent individual and actually read the STATUTES that govern your counties ability to regulate firearms, THE COUNTY CAN'T DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN ASK YOU TO LEAVE if they discover you are carrying concealed, or you can uncover and carry openly!

I'm thrilled he acted the way he did. I have been advised to wait this out, SAVE THE
AUDIO, and take him and the sheriff to court.

Here are the facts, that even us peons that do not have a law degree understand:

KRS 65.870- prohibits locales from enacting ANY restrictions on firearms, unless the state legislature specifically passes a bill into law that allows them to do so.

KRS 237.115- this statute gives locales the authority to ban CONCEALED firearms INSIDE BUILDINGS they CONTROL, which would be the county courthouse we were REMOVED
from. The courthouse has the county clerk's office, county attorney's office, judge/exec.'s office, PVA, notice these are all PUBLIC OFFICES! The courthouse ANNEX is located to the right of the county courthouse, and obviously, it holds courtrooms for court of justice, circuit clerk, etc., needless to say we can not enter into this building!, and I would venture to guess this annex has metal detectors!
This statute also makes it VERY CLEAR you can't arrest someone for violating the "no concealed weapons provision. It also make it clear, that in order for this ordinance to be effective, signs must be posted at all entrances to buildings where "no concealed" weapons are allowed!

I can't even list all of the AG opinions that pertain to these issues, or the Supreme Court of KY's ruling that says no one can question our right to openly carry a firearm! Apparently this guy didn't get the memo!

I would like to thank him though, and every other city and county out there that believe they can ignore state law, and claim "home rule status," even though the very rule they claim gives them this right to regulate firearms says they do not have "home rule" authority if the ordinance violates the state CONSTITUTION or STATE LAW! If it was not for locales such as Lawrence county who choose to violate state law and our rights, we wouldn't have worked so hard to obtain one of the strongest firearm preemption statutes in the country, (newly amended KRS 65.870; HB500 for the sheriff, look it up, I gave you copies to!), and we would still not have the right to take these individuals to court! But, most importantly, we now can have their "immunity," (granted to them under section 231 of the state constitution), stripped from them, and can have them charged with OFFICIAL MISCONDUCT!

This very statute grants the authority to have him charged, when he is found to be in violation of state firearm preemption, and the one refusing to A) Stop enforcing the illegal ordinance, and B) Refusing to inform the county of their ordinances' violation of state law!

DrakeZ07 said:

Not that it'd help much at all, but, anyone else feeling itchy for a lil OC get together in force at this place? peacefully carrying as a large group? I'm sure theres more of us then there are LEO's. Call in the media, or have our families on the side video taping everything we did, and everything said. There was 11 or so of us at the Lex M&G, plus the ones who go to the Ash M&G

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Isaac and myself were discussing this. We should attend the fiscal court meeting, and have about ten of us show up. I really don't understand why they can't comprehend that this ordinance is illegal, and therefore unenforceable. Even Lexington and Louisville realized this, and these are two of the biggest, most corrupt cities in the state. Sure will be a black eye for little ol' Lawrence County to be in the same arena.

These are PUBlIC OPEN MEETINGS afterall.

This may be a nice thing to have if you're willing to fork out the money for it.


http://www.galls.com/google/uniform...m_term=CA125&gclid=COu7p7OHv68CFYReTAodpU7jtw

I just got off the phone with the Judge. He was VERY apologetic for what happened monday. He informed me that the Sheriff Garret Roberts was in contact with an attorney that said the exact same thing that KYglockster and I said.

Also KY, since I didn't have my firearm today I ventured into the Court Annex side. There is NO "No firearm" signs or metal detectors to be found.

self preservation said:

This may be a nice thing to have if you're willing to fork out the money for it.


http://www.galls.com/google/uniform...m_term=CA125&gclid=COu7p7OHv68CFYReTAodpU7jtw

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See the video sun glasses to the side? I think that would be more desirable since it is always looking where you are looking. It doesn't flop around as much.

You links that you sent me didn't work either. I don't know what the problem is.



Also, does anyone know how I could reduce movement noise on my voice recorder? I have a mic that attaches to my iPod. If I leave it dangling it gets noise or if I leave it in my shirt it gets noise. It isn't too much to block out words (usually) but it still is an hinderance to make out a full conversation.

I sent them an email stating that I would be in contact with an attorney to file suit against the county if it happened again. I quoted the law repeatedly and said that if it happened again, in addition to the lawsuit I would be sending a copy of the audio to every member of the general assembly with an attached letter stating exactly what was going on. That was yesterday. I was honestly ready to fund a legal fight if need be. Call me crazy but I don't play.

09jisaac said:

...He informed me that the Sheriff Garret Roberts was in contact with an attorney that said the exact same thing that KYglockster and I said.

Also KY, since I didn't have my firearm today I ventured into the Court Annex side. There is NO "No firearm" signs or metal detectors to be found.

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That's good. At least the sheriif realizes the seriousness of this situation. It is a shame he has to go to an outside source to get the legal advice he needs. Being as he is a sheriff in this state though, you would think he would know we were right. We need to have a little OC get together in Louisa, and make signs informing everyone of how this attorney is. People need to know the truth about who they are electing, especially since he is running for Commonwealth Attorney, and claiming to be pro 2A. I would venture to guess there are a lot of gun owning voters in Lawrence County that would like to know what this man is doing.

As for the metal detectors, that is why he mentioned them yesterday. I do not understand why he mentioned them though, because we never once stepped into the annex, therefore that is unrelated to the issue at hand. COUNTY COURTHOUSE, with nothing but PUBLIC OFFICES means OC can't be banned! And as we all know, even if the county courthouse did have the court of justice in it, along with public offices, they still can't prohibit carry to those public offices!

All they had to do was read the many different statutes, documents, and AG opinions we were giving them, and they could have avoided this mess they have placed themselves in. They chose not to though, and that was their choice, a very bad choice, but theirs nonetheless.

09jisaac said:

See the video sun glasses to the side? I think that would be more desirable since it is always looking where you are looking. It doesn't flop around as much.

You links that you sent me didn't work either. I don't know what the problem is.



Also, does anyone know how I could reduce movement noise on my voice recorder? I have a mic that attaches to my iPod. If I leave it dangling it gets noise or if I leave it in my shirt it gets noise. It isn't too much to block out words (usually) but it still is an hinderance to make out a full conversation.

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Yeah, the glasses are bad a$$. The only concern I had with them is if you're inside they may be to dark for you to see. The link I send you (and KYGlockster) was a link to a paper from 1993. It was an opinon on home rule. It was for a city of the 1st class, but I'm sure it would apply to a county of no class..hahahaha..(joke for today) Anyhow, it says that home rule doesnt apply to KRS 65.870. I know you already knew that but I thought it might be something that could help you. So do I understand that this issue has taken a turn for the better in your favor??? Or did I misread that?

heartsglory said:

I sent them an email stating that I would be in contact with an attorney to file suit against the county if it happened again. I quoted the law repeatedly and said that if it happened again, in addition to the lawsuit I would be sending a copy of the audio to every member of the general assembly with an attached letter stating exactly what was going on. That was yesterday. I was honestly ready to fund a legal fight if need be. Call me crazy but I don't play.

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I am going to send the audio to Rocky Adkins, he is the state representative, and a very good man. If I remember correctly he was a co-sponsor of HB500, and I'm sure he would like to hear how the local county attorney is treating citizens.

But he brought up Johnson County's "courthouse" like it had anything to do with this. They have a "Justice Center" which probably DOES have plenty of metal detectors, but they also have a "courthouse" that I was in recently without metal detectors.

Also, I was really thinking about about informing everyone of the side Hogan showed us monday. I have access to land on RT 32 by louisa (live here), I have family land on 2565/23 that I take care of my father's mother owns land on 23, my father/mother own land on 23. I have PLENTY of places to put signs. I just don't know what I can put. I am thinking about getting a piece of plywood and making a 4x8 (8x8, 8x16) sign. I don't let anyone else talk to me like he did, I will be DAMNED if I take this sitting down.

Unrelated: Is it illegal to publicize questions that imply a false conclusion but don't state one? Like "Do you want a CA that has had three DUI's in the past 5 years?".

I do hope you get better soon KY. Family feeling any better?

KYGlockster said:

I am going to send the audio to Rocky Adkins, he is the state representative, and a very good man. If I remember correctly he was a co-sponsor of HB500, and I'm sure he would like to hear how the local county attorney is treating citizens.

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Please do. Any time this happens and we catch it we ought to send it to our state reps with a letter stating exactly what is happening to their people. The more often we do that, the stronger our current laws will become IMHO.

self preservation said:

Yeah, the glasses are bad a$$. The only concern I had with them is if you're inside they may be to dark for you to see. The link I send you (and KYGlockster) was a link to a paper from 1993. It was an opinon on home rule. It was for a city of the 1st class, but I'm sure it would apply to a county of no class..hahahaha..(joke for today) Anyhow, it says that home rule doesnt apply to KRS 65.870. I know you already knew that but I thought it might be something that could help you. So do I understand that this issue has taken a turn for the better in your favor??? Or did I misread that?

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I giggled like a school girl on that one. We already know that but it was good for you not to assume that we did. You are attempting to help us, that is desired.

Also, yes I do think that everything is looking up. Roberts was professional but still in the wrong, so I do not have as much problems with that. Hogan on the other hand was very unprofessional and "stupid" (quote from A call today) in his actions. He is the one I have the most problem with.

Does it matter how dark they are? As sweet as they look you can just review the tapes later. But they would be no use to me anyways as I already wear glasses.

Isaac, we need to get in touch with the current CA and see if he is running for re-election. If he is, then we need to help him with his campaign, and whoever will be challenging Hogan for county attorney, should receive our help as well.

We need to make signs, get a bunch of us together, and stand on a public sidewalk, or private property with the owners permission in the most heavily traveled part of town. Signs like "hogon says he supports gun rights, but threatens arrest for exercising those rights!" or "would you like it if your county attorney ripped documents from your hands?, hogan does!" things like that. All of these are facts and their is nothing he can do about us addressing our grievances with public officials. As long as you aren't saying "he cheats on his wife", or things like that, nothing he can do. The 1st amendment, and sections of the state constitution protect our right to do these things. Just look at some of the things people say about state and national politicians, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and we are definitely able to inform the public of facts!

09jisaac said:

I giggled like a school girl on that one. We already know that but it was good for you not to assume that we did. You are attempting to help us, that is desired.

Also, yes I do think that everything is looking up. Roberts was professional but still in the wrong, so I do not have as much problems with that. Hogan on the other hand was very unprofessional and "stupid" (quote from A call today) in his actions. He is the one I have the most problem with.

Does it matter how dark they are? As sweet as they look you can just review the tapes later. But they would be no use to me anyways as I already wear glasses.

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Glad my "no class" joke made you smile. I dont know but I assume audio and video would better than just audio alone. I'm thinking about getting one or the other "just in case" You will have to forgive me but I dont know the names of the folks that gave you two all the hastle. Am I understanding that the judge did say he was sorry??? And if so, has he offered to become compliant? And I understand the sheriff got an eye opener from a private attorney? Has he changed his attitude and said sorry yet? Has he admitted that he was wrong? I take it that this Hogan cat is still blind. Any idea at this point on how you plan to proceed with this?

self preservation said:

Glad my "no class" joke made you smile. I dont know but I assume audio and video would better than just audio alone. I'm thinking about getting one or the other "just in case" You will have to forgive me but I dont know the names of the folks that gave you two all the hastle. Am I understanding that the judge did say he was sorry??? And if so, has he offered to become compliant? And I understand the sheriff got an eye opener from a private attorney? Has he changed his attitude and said sorry yet? Has he admitted that he was wrong? I take it that this Hogan cat is still blind. Any idea at this point on how you plan to proceed with this?

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Garret Roberts- Sheriff Professional but still in the wrong. Said he would arrest us if we violated this ordinance (illegal) again. Even said OC is illegal in sheriff dept.
Mike Hogan- County Attorney. Very unprofessional and aggressive to the point i say he became slightly violent to KYglockster. He is running for Commonwealth Attorney
John Osborn- Judge Executive. We have no reason to believe that he is even part of the problem. He apologized for what Hogan said/did to us monday and said he would do his best to fix this. He informed me that the Sheriff talked to an attorney who validated our cause.

I do think everyone needs a recorder now. I thought it wasn't as meaningful as it is. I thought it would be open/close deal. We carry guns to protect ourself but we should carry recording devices to protect ourself even further. I would not dare try to persuade you to not get any time of recorder unless I had reason to suspect the quality of the device.

I do not know if the "cat" is still blind, but I do suspect he still thinks he is above us common people.

KYGlockster, political opponents of Hogans: http://www.thelevisalazer.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4232:lawrence-co-attorney-s-entry-into-commonwealths-attorney-race-raises-questions-about-successor-&catid=66:local-news-today&Itemid=250 for Lawrence county attorney and Anna Deskins Melvin for Commonwealth Attorney.

09jisaac said:

Garret Roberts- Sheriff Professional but still in the wrong. Said he would arrest us if we violated this ordinance (illegal) again. Even said OC is illegal in sheriff dept.
Mike Hogan- County Attorney. Very unprofessional and aggressive to the point i say he became slightly violent to KYglockster. He is running for Commonwealth Attorney
John Osborn- Judge Executive. We have no reason to believe that he is even part of the problem. He apologized for what Hogan said/did to us monday and said he would do his best to fix this. He informed me that the Sheriff talked to an attorney who validated our cause.

I do think everyone needs a recorder now. I thought it wasn't as meaningful as it is. I thought it would be open/close deal. We carry guns to protect ourself but we should carry recording devices to protect ourself even further. I would not dare try to persuade you to not get any time of recorder unless I had reason to suspect the quality of the device.

I do not know if the "cat" is still blind, but I do suspect he still thinks he is above us common people.

KYGlockster, political opponents of Hogans: http://www.thelevisalazer.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4232:lawrence-co-attorney-s-entry-into-commonwealths-attorney-race-raises-questions-about-successor-&catid=66:local-news-today&Itemid=250 for Lawrence county attorney and Anna Deskins Melvin for Commonwealth Attorney.

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Thanks for literally spelling it out for me I dont know any of them but now I know what name goes with what position. Is the county judge over the CA? Have they gave you any idea of what they plan to do or not do after this little incident? Or are you still going to have to keep pushing it hard?

I sent Mrs. Melvin an email.

Let's make sure Hogan's opposition is more competent than he is. We had trouble with a Democratic sheriff here in Scott County. We had two Republicans challenging him. One of those acknowledged the legitimacy of OC, the other did not. I, of course, supported the pro-OC candidate with my time and money.