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Thread: Mt.Pleasant Police and Open Carrying

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    Regular Member michaelm_ski's Avatar
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    Mt.Pleasant Police and Open Carrying

    I just read an article in the Morning Sun our local paper , in it is an article about open carrying and the police view on this topic the state police are more clear and OK with this BUT here is a comment from the Mt.Pleasant Police public information officers remark and I quote "If somebody is exercising their right . I understand that right , BUT the concern is the disruption that it creates in the community ,and the fear . You don't know what somebody else is going to do if they see you with that gun ." end of quote . To me it seems like the Mt.Pleasant police are anti carry and need to be brought up to date in regards to it being more accepted than they think and should worry more about the guns you aren't seeing but that is just my opinion . Does anyone else think it is wrong thinking going on here ? Also the article was on the front page of the Sunday paper .

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    In other new, people with fear of red shirts are told that if they see someone in public wearing a red shirt to call police as soon as possiable as to calm THEIR IRRATIONAL FEARS.......

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelm_ski View Post
    I just read an article in the Morning Sun our local paper , in it is an article about open carrying and the police view on this topic the state police are more clear and OK with this BUT here is a comment from the Mt.Pleasant Police public information officers remark and I quote "If somebody is exercising their right . I understand that right , BUT the concern is the disruption that it creates in the community ,and the fear . You don't know what somebody else is going to do if they see you with that gun ." end of quote . To me it seems like the Mt.Pleasant police are anti carry and need to be brought up to date in regards to it being more accepted than they think and should worry more about the guns you aren't seeing but that is just my opinion . Does anyone else think it is wrong thinking going on here ? Also the article was on the front page of the Sunday paper .
    As long as the police follow state law they're entitled to their opinion.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    As long as the police follow state law they're entitled to their opinion.
    Isn't there something wrong with a police agency or a person with authority from a police agency expressing an opinion in connection to that agency? Isn't that attempting to enforce an opinion by tying it to, or implying that it is, an official LE authoritative source?

    I mean it is one thing for a person to express his personal opinion... but when a person expresses his opinion while in the official position as the police public information officer during an interview with the media... wouldn't that be an attempt to use the authority of his position to influence the public to follow his opinion and maybe even a "color of law" violation?
    Last edited by Bikenut; 04-16-2012 at 05:37 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member michaelm_ski's Avatar
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    Mt.Pleasant Police

    The worst thing I read was him putting in the bit about the public's Disruption and fear in the public ! and than to say that they have no idea what the public is GOING TO DO ??? Did he really say that on public record ? . That bothers me as how can he make such an assumption is beyond me .
    Last edited by michaelm_ski; 04-16-2012 at 05:47 PM.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelm_ski View Post
    The worst thing I read was him putting in the bit about the public's Disruption and fear in the public ! and than to say that they have no idea what the public is GOING TO DO ??? Did he really say that on public record ? . That bothers me as how can he make such an assumption is beyond me .
    1. Find the online version of the story.

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    Regular Member michaelm_ski's Avatar
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    morningsun.com article about Open Carry and Mt.Pleasant Police

    The article is on the morningsun.com website it is uder the top stories , Let me know how it strikes you with his statements .

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    The us against them attitude problems of a disproportionate number of midwest cops go far beyond carrying, and realistically aren't something worth worrying about if your primary goal is to spread gun freedom. Our main goal needs to be that they don't infringe on our rights. Running their mouthes is to be expected of some.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    As long as the police follow state law they're entitled to their opinion.
    Privately they are entitled to their opinion.

    Publicly it becomes official policy under color of law. Personal opinion has no place in the enforcement of the law.
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    Isn't there an indian reservation in that area? I know out west indian reservations are like a whole different country. Would it have anything to do with that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    Isn't there an indian reservation in that area? I know out west indian reservations are like a whole different country. Would it have anything to do with that?
    Yes, the Isabella Indian Reservation I believe and there is also a casino there as well. Now the million dollar question is, is the casino carry friendly? Being "Sovereign Indian Land" Casinos that are located on Indian reservations are exempt from state AND federal gun laws right? (correct me if I am wrong here please) so it would be quite possible to CC or OC in said Indian casino depending on their viewpoint on the matter. I'd be happy to CC. Might be worth a call to Soaring Eagle

    OT:

    I went to Central Michigan University in the mid 80's and it sounds like nothing has changed there. The Mt. Pleasant cops were xxxxxx with bad attitudes back then too.

    --Mod response --

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    Mt. Pleasant Police, Mornng Sun Article

    People live in "FEAR" every day

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    As long as the police follow state law they're entitled to their opinion.
    Very true.

    However, I feel his comment goes along the lines of a local government not repealing a preempted law. If some schmo reads it, he believes it.....regardless of its enforceablilty.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hevymetal View Post
    Yes, the Isabella Indian Reservation I believe and there is also a casino there as well. Now the million dollar question is, is the casino carry friendly? Being "Sovereign Indian Land" Casinos that are located on Indian reservations are exempt from state AND federal gun laws right? (correct me if I am wrong here please) so it would be quite possible to CC or OC in said Indian casino depending on their viewpoint on the matter. I'd be happy to CC. Might be worth a call to Soaring Eagle

    OT:
    Casinos are PFZs as far as Concealed carry goes. And I doubt very much that they'd welcome OC either.
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    Regular Member Billy's Avatar
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    Howdy ~

    I open-carried at a car show located in the huge parking lot of Soaring Eagle Casino some three years ago.

    My wife and our little doggie walked around meeting folks, taking photos and suffered large numbers of people to pet our mini Long-Haired Dachshund. Said hello and talked briefly to a few of the Soaring Eagle uniformed security guards that were there directing traffic and making their rounds within the car show area. They had no problem with me being armed and nothing was said.

    Later in the afternoon we ate at one of the fine restaurants inside the casino complex, but being that I was told earlier (by someone?) that firearms were not permitted I left my pistol in our vehicle.

    Maybe things are different now, I don't know at this time.

    Take care now...

    Respectfully,
    Billy
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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Howdy ~

    I open-carried at a car show located in the huge parking lot of Soaring Eagle Casino some three years ago.

    My wife and our little doggie walked around meeting folks, taking photos and suffered large numbers of people to pet our mini Long-Haired Dachshund. Said hello and talked briefly to a few of the Soaring Eagle uniformed security guards that were there directing traffic and making their rounds within the car show area. They had no problem with me being armed and nothing was said.

    Later in the afternoon we ate at one of the fine restaurants inside the casino complex, but being that I was told earlier (by someone?) that firearms were not permitted I left my pistol in our vehicle.

    Maybe things are different now, I don't know at this time.

    Take care now...

    Respectfully,
    Billy
    Casinos are listed on the back of my CPL as PFZs. Parking lots are usually exempt. So far as I know, the law hasn't changed with regard to casinos and firearms. Unfortunately.
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Casinos are listed on the back of my CPL as PFZs. Parking lots are usually exempt. So far as I know, the law hasn't changed with regard to casinos and firearms. Unfortunately.
    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
    Sec. 5o.


    (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:


    (2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.


    and:


    ABOUT NATIVE AMERICAN CASINOS
    Native American tribes are sovereign nations. As such, the State of Michigan does not have general regulatory authority over Indian casinos, although the State does have oversight authority over compliance with the State-Tribal Compact provisions. They are regulated by the National Indian Gaming Commission and the government of the appropriate tribal community.
    --http://www.michigan.gov/mgcb/0,4620,...2858--,00.html


    NA casinos, are not under regulation of the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226 and are therefore, in my personal, non-lawyer opinion, not a pfz. I would cc or oc there as I wished. But, since this is not legal advice, YOU may wish to consult with an attorney before doing so. Additionally, I have found nothing to indicate that they have in any way banned firearms; I looked at their compact and have searched their tribal website. Also, I believe that even if there were a rule regarding this, Trespass might be the most likely outcome if asked to leave and you didn't.


    Last edited by DrTodd; 04-21-2012 at 04:34 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post

    NA casinos, are not under regulation of the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226 and are therefore, in my personal, non-lawyer opinion, a pfz. I would cc or oc there as I wished. But, since this is not legal advice, YOU may wish to consult with an attorney before doing so. Additionally, I have found nothing to indicate that they have in any way banned firearms; I looked at their compact and have searched their tribal website. Also, I believe that even if there were a rule regarding this, Trespass might be the most likely outcome if asked to leave and you didn't.


    So, you'd OC or CC in a PFZ? Interesting.
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  19. #19
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    So, you'd OC or CC in a PFZ? Interesting.
    Indian Casinos are not PFZ under the CC statute. They can ban firearms, but it would not be a firearm violation if you carried in one.
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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Indian Casinos are not PFZ under the CC statute. They can ban firearms, but it would not be a firearm violation if you carried in one.
    I was just replying to what DrTodd said.

    "and are therefore, in my personal, non-lawyer opinion, a pfz." I think he left out the "not."

    I have to admit, I have wondered about that for quite a while. But I'll bet, most of them won't like people wondering around with OCed pistols....unfortunately.

    In a previous job I had, I traveled to or through Mt. Pleasant a number of times. Once I was stopped by Tribal police. I did the usual, including informing that I have a CPL and that I was armed. He didn't even blink. Took my info, came back, did NOT give me a ticket, and said "Have a nice day."
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 04-20-2012 at 04:15 PM.
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    I was just replying to what DrTodd said.

    "and are therefore, in my personal, non-lawyer opinion, a pfz." I think he left out the "not."

    I have to admit, I have wondered about that for quite a while. But I'll bet, most of them won't like people wondering around with OCed pistols....unfortunately.

    In a previous job I had, I traveled to or through Mt. Pleasant a number of times. Once I was stopped by Tribal police. I did the usual, including informing that I have a CPL and that I was armed. He didn't even blink. Took my info, came back, did NOT give me a ticket, and said "Have a nice day."
    Al, I changed it for you. I would also add that, about a year ago, I OC'd at the Williamsburg casino hotel and, when I went in the casino, I cc'd.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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