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To carry a weapon or not to carry a weapon. That is the question

paracharlie

New member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
5
Location
SE Wisconsin
First of all this is my first time posting here and for good reason. Allow me to introduce myself. I am former Marine Corp infantryman with a security forces secondary MOS. I did my service in the 1980's and I am now in my 40's and live happily knowing that ONE of my privileges is to store, use, and maintain a weapon of my choosing. I have recently extended my privilege by obtaining a concealed license for myself, my wife and my 23 year old daughter. I hold sacred the right to bear arms for the privilege to keep my oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, here or abroad. I will fulfill that oath the day they lay me down.

I do not presume for all civilians out there to understand what it is like to be a part of something so much bigger then yourself, and some people may not understand what it is like to choose that lifestyle where one day you are alive and next day you are not. But know this; the life style I chose is not for me, it is for you.

There is a criminal element in today's society, for whatever reason known only to them, has become an element that holds no fear of death by enforcers or patriots of a rational society of law abiding citizens, veterans or public servants. They neither fear death, nor are they afraid to kill you without remorse. Many personal opinions may attribute to this behavior, but what matters, is that it does exist.

I carry a weapon open or concealed because I know whats on the other side of the fence, so to speak. Carry because you are committed to be a patriot and you believe in something much bigger then ourselves without reservation to do good, remembering that a patriot does believe in an honest government and justice system. Hold yourself to an oath and do it for all the right reasons. If you carry for the purpose of personal rebellion then leave your weapon at home. Your not helping any one reputation or building any type of trust with law enforcement or the community. Every time I see a news story about someone being stubborn with police while carrying a weapon, I slowly see our privilege slipping away in a bureau of red-tape and general mistrust, slandered by an over eager news media looking for today's story to make one individual a little more famous at the expense of one more American.

Question your true intentions and be honest with yourself. Our you carrying for the right reason?

Do not be a disappointment, because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

God bless and stay strong.
 

DangerClose

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
570
Location
The mean streets of WI
Every time I see a news story about someone being stubborn with police while carrying a weapon, I slowly see our privilege slipping away in a bureau of red-tape and general mistrust, slandered by an over eager news media looking for today's story to make one individual a little more famous at the expense of one more American.

I guess that would depend on one's definition of "stubborn."

I bet the police and media think the Madison 5 were "stubborn."
 

Beretta92FSLady

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
5,264
Location
In My Coffee
I OC/CC because I like the feel of cold-steel strapped over my shoulder. Considering my family, and me walk regularily, at times not walking home until the evening, it is a down payment to a force that I hope to never use.

Welcome to the forum.
 

lockman

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
1,193
Location
Elgin, Illinois, USA
If exercising the your right not to answer questions posed by police is being stubborn, I disagree. Carrying as a purely selfish act for only your personal protection to the exclusion of others is still the exercise of a protected right, stubborn or not.
 

DCKilla

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
523
Location
Wet Side, WA
I OC for two reasons. First and foremost, I OC for defense and deterrence. Secondly, I OC to promote the peaceful carry of arms and normalize the presence of firearms in our society.
 

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
I carry a weapon open or concealed because I know whats on the other side of the fence, so to speak. Carry because you are committed to be a patriot and you believe in something much bigger then ourselves without reservation to do good, remembering that a patriot does believe in an honest government and justice system.

A patriot believes "in an honest government and justice system"? A patriot is gullible and ignorant of history?

Perhaps you meant that a patriot does believe in doing the work to keep an honest government and justice system... honest.
 
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H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
"You do not become a "dissident" just because you decide one day to take up this most unusual career. You are thrown into it by your personal sense of responsibility, combined with a complex set of external circumstances. You are cast out of the existing structures and placed in a position of conflict with them. It begins as an attempt to do your work well, and ends with being branded an enemy of society." (Vaclav Havel, The Power of the Powerless)

Civilians? Us versus them? Are you a member of Oath Keepers, have you reaffirmed your oath?

I pray you fulfill your oath before you lay down, take one with you. Dying quietly is what they want of us.

Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and Guns and the Truth.
 

Jack House

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,611
Location
I80, USA
"..I slowly see our privilege slipping away.."

It's not a privilege, it's a right.
Surprised you are the only other person to have mentioned that.

I kept seeing a lot of privilege where I should have seen right.


Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
.....ONE of my privileges is to store, use, and maintain a weapon of my choosing.....I have recently extended my privilege..... I hold sacred the right to bear arms for the privilege to keep my oath to defend the Constitution of the United States.....

.....I do not presume for all civilians out there to understand what it is like to be a part of something so much bigger then yourself.....
Maybe, and I am merely speculating, paracharlie considers it a privilege to have the opportunity to exercise his 'right'.

recognizing and then understanding the concept of 'being privileged to be a American' can be a challenge sometimes.

Being priveleged to have the physical and mentall capacity to exercise their rights.

When you have served in the armed forces, some folks come to realize this and some folks do not. As civilians some folks 'get it', some do not.

I got what paracharlie may have meant, or what I wanted him to mean, based on the fact that I 'get it'. I am privileged to have these rights, privileged to be able to exercise these unalienable rights,a great many folks are not as privileged as I am.

If paracharlie sees the BoR as a set of privileges, well, he has come to the right place to get 'reeducated'. And the education has commenced.
 

lysander6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
74
Location
AZ
I have to be skeptical anytime a veteran tells me I owe them for my freedom. American military behavior around the globe has not done anything to make us free since 1893. If anything, our inability to mind our own business has put us at greater risk in CONUS than not.

You want to support the troops? Bring them home soonest and send the Busheviks and Obama on an apology tour throughout the ME.

That being said, I carry because I think it is immoral and presumptuous to outsource my self-defense to others without their consent.

BTW, privilege is slave talk.
 
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lysander6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
74
Location
AZ
Since 1893? OK.

One could contend that the global push beyond our contiguous borders began then with the annexation of Hawaii in 1893 but I am more than happy to move the date backward if you know of another grand American enterprise before that time beyond our Western Hemisphere.
 

MamaLiberty

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
894
Location
Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
I Love My Guns http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/editor.html
They represent self ownership, and true independence. They mark me as one who is responsible for myself and willing to risk everything to protect myself and others. It marks me as a free human being and not a slave. Slaves are not "allowed" to own and carry guns. Free people can't be stopped from doing so.

I love my guns, and the liberty for which they stand.
 

SovereignAxe

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
791
Location
Elizabethton, TN
One could contend that the global push beyond our contiguous borders began then with the annexation of Hawaii in 1893 but I am more than happy to move the date backward if you know of another grand American enterprise before that time beyond our Western Hemisphere.

So you rather us have waited for WWII to come to our shores before we joined the fight?

Don't get me wrong, Britain and Russia fought off the Axis powers well. China...well, they fought. But to think that Japan and Germany wouldn't be knocking at the East and West door of the US if we hadn't intervened sooner is...idk, awfully hopeful.
 

lysander6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
74
Location
AZ
So you rather us have waited for WWII to come to our shores before we joined the fight?

Don't get me wrong, Britain and Russia fought off the Axis powers well. China...well, they fought. But to think that Japan and Germany wouldn't be knocking at the East and West door of the US if we hadn't intervened sooner is...idk, awfully hopeful.

I think I have steered this thread off-topic but am happy to respond but these are merely speculative counter-factuals. WWI is the midwife for WWII and one could say that the Bolsheviks would have been strangled in their cradle in Russia and the Versailles Treaty would not have created the condition for Hitler if Wilson had decided as he promised in his Prez campaign to mind his own business. We can go back further when Teddy made secret arrangements with the Japanese (his honorary Aryans) in the early 1900s to give them an Anglo-American green light to turn greater East Asia into a Japanese imperialist pond.

I also think it is ludicrous to assume that the Germans with no blue water navy of merit or size, no long range range bomber capability and most important, insufficient manpower to occupy US territory could even get a foothold. Look what happened to the Japanese when they attempted a tiny lodgement in the Aleutians and this is with an American Army and Navy which did not stand up operationally or strategically until 1943. Whether the naval crisis at Guadalcanal or the pathetic showing at Kasserine in North Africa, the Germans never devoted more than one fifth of their Order of Battle to the Western theater in ETO as they had their hands full with the other totalitarian menace we were sleeping with, the Russians. Yet the political troika between Churchill, RedDR and Stalin gave us a more peaceful and hopeful world in our subsidy and succor of the Communist state during the war?

I am happy to discuss this further but we should do it offline because we (I) have hijacked the thread and that is bad manners on my part. My forum is located here if you would like to start a thread and I will happily host it: http://zerogov.com/forum/

The War to Save Joseph Stalin or WWII gave America its gargantuan Federal government, the withholding tax for income taxes, the death knell for local/state/regional allegiance of the citizenry and the green light to meddle that has made us the national security state that it is today.
 

Beretta92FSLady

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
5,264
Location
In My Coffee
"..I slowly see our privilege slipping away.."

It's not a privilege, it's a right.

I seen it the first time I reade it, but I figure he had something to say, and I understand what he is stating. He is likely using the word Privilege in the Right sense, a misnomer, but nothing to get worked-up over, IMO. I could've pounced on it in my fashion, but seeing as how Charlie is new here, and he was writing about how he feels, well, I figure a tampered-down response is in order.

This page is a tough one when it comes to back-and-forth, and it takes some time for new people to really dig-in, and refine their ideas, and posts.

Welcome to the forum Charlie.
 
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DWCook

Activist Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
432
Location
Lenexa, Kansas
I have a friend of mine who has a quite a few pistols and yet he still doesn't have his CCL permit for Kansas! I keep telling him carrying with it unloaded is the most pointless way to carry for a self defense weapon. Also it being in the car and not being loaded is not my way of saying I'm protected. Last two pisols he bought I keep reminding him the CCL cost is cheaper than the two pistols he bought. I have ran out of ideas to convince him that getting the permit is the most important considering he's already loaded to the brim in firepower!
 

paracharlie

New member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
5
Location
SE Wisconsin
Ok, first I would like to apologize for the confusion I created. I wish I could have responded sooner, sorry. When I said privilege I was pertaining to my states laws that have a privilege system in place for self defense. Not to be confused with your god given right.
My intent is to bring home to some, and I am thinking for those that I have seen in the media who got so wrapped up in their constitutional rights that they forgot to read their State and Local laws and their rights pertaining to those laws also.
I can not give you a specific case out of respect. But I will give you an example of what I am talking about.
Mr. Miller has decided that enough is enough with the crime in his area. He decides that it is time that he straps on his .44 and starts parading up and down his block with the hopes that people will notice him and say something to him so that he can preach his new found knowledge, having read the bill of rights for the first time in his life. With luck a neighbor across the street asks him why hes carrying a gun. Mr. Miller starts yelling, "Because its my constitutional right". An argument persists with words slung back and forth. Another neighbor calls the police and says that there is a man with a gun yelling at another man. The police respond and ask the enraged Mr. Miller for his ID, but he refuses telling the officer that he doesn't have to show him his ID. The police officer has already assessed the situation and come to the rapid conclusion that for the fifth time today there is another combative citizen in his patrol area that he must deal with. He calls for assistance and 3 more squads show up, the situation heats up with Mr. Miller's adrenalin pumping along with the officers staring at Mr. Millers hands making sure he does not go for his .44.

Mr. Miller tells the officer that he has the right to defend himself. This is true, everyone has the right, but will the state grant him immunity under the self defense law due to the fact that he provoked the situation and became unprivileged according to the self defense law. The officers decide that it is time Mr. Miller is removed from the area and taken to a safe area downtown to cool off, and is later released.

Do you see the problem here?
Did Mr. Miller openly carry his weapon for all the wrong reasons? No one denies that he has the right even the officer. They were only worried that he would be combative.

Those neighbors will never forget that situation and probably will now and never openly except open carry in their way of thinking ever again. Mr. Miller caused a lot of damage for all of us that do carry for all the right reasons.

See what I'm getting at? I hope you do, I really don't know how else to get that thought across.

As far as the ccw license goes. I signed an agreement with the DOJ that I would produce my license upon request and if stopped by LE I would inform LE that I have a ccw. It is LE choice whether they want to temporarily relieve me of my weapon during the stop. Not sure that I totally agree with being disarmed temporarily because honestly, if the DOJ trusts me and I have passed the background check with a clean record why do I need to be disarmed temporarily? I needed to add that in there too, because that has been bothering me.
 
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