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Thread: POLICE: Troy man arrested after carrying loaded rifle in downtown Birmingham

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    POLICE: Troy man arrested after carrying loaded rifle in downtown Birmingham

    Open carry of rifle?

    http://www.theoaklandpress.com/artic...6567131158.txt

    "An 18-year-old man from Troy was arrested in Birmingham after police found him carrying a fully-loaded M1 rifle around downtown."

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman View Post
    Open carry of rifle?

    http://www.theoaklandpress.com/artic...6567131158.txt

    "An 18-year-old man from Troy was arrested in Birmingham after police found him carrying a fully-loaded M1 rifle around downtown."
    The open carry of a firearm alone does not amount to disorderly conduct. Depending on the size of the weapon (30 inches or less?) he need not ID himself.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    The open carry of a firearm alone does not amount to disorderly conduct. Depending on the size of the weapon (30 inches or less?) he need not ID himself.
    I also believe OC alone does not constitute brandishing. And the obstruction charge is total BS. *** damn this pisses me off.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Just so you know, this thread will probably get deleted by the mods.

    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions such as California which ban handgun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.
    Bronson
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    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Just so you know, this thread will probably get deleted by the mods.



    Bronson
    I figured it might. But I wanted people to see it anyway.

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    Regular Member StingMP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    The open carry of a firearm alone does not amount to disorderly conduct. Depending on the size of the weapon (30 inches or less?) he need not ID himself.
    [QUOTE=The weapon was taken into evidence. Police were unable to obtain ownership information for the rifle.

    The arrest comes less than two weeks after police questioned a 21-year-old woman accused of firing two gunshots after leaving a bar in the same area where the Troy man was found carrying the gun.[/QUOTE]

    Wow, cannot obtain ownership information. Sounds like a complaint against no requirement to register long guns. Typical anti article. And the correlation between him being around the same general area as recent crimes while carrying is testimony to why carry. Where is the bang head emoticon?
    "Reason can never be popular. Passions and feelings can become popular, but reason will always remain the sole property of a few eminent individuals."
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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Just so you know, this thread will probably get deleted by the mods.



    Bronson
    I believe it will as well, however, given the situation at hand, would the same have happened if he were OC'ing a handgun?

    I think the mods should allow this one as an education type thread of what to do, and not to do.

    I also find this rule applicable to Michigan, as a "long gun" under 30" is considered a pistol in michigan, am I correct?

    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions such as California which ban handgun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.
    Last edited by Tucker6900; 04-17-2012 at 05:18 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Something to note: Under current MI. law, a person under the age of 21 may NOT purchase a pistol from a FFL. Thus, without a private seller willing to sell him a pistol (many will not). The only other option for this individual to protect himself aside from the long gun would have been a black powder pistol. This is something in my opinion that needs to be fixed by our law makers. If an individual can serve their country armed with automatic weapons at the age of 18, why can't they purchase a pistol from a dealer? Now as i see this, with the very limited info at hand it appears the young person was attempting to comply with current MI law.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I'm with oldstyle on this. Very much on topic if he couldn't manage to get a handgun to carry instead, for the same reasons that it's okayed for the PRK it should be okay here.

    If this topic gets deleted it will be unfortunate. Aside from the fact that we should support teens OCing how they can, this case could have important implications for the definition of brandishing, and that would apply to any guns a person could carry.
    Last edited by Michigander; 04-17-2012 at 08:25 PM.
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    I'm with oldstyle on this. Very much on topic if he couldn't manage to get a handgun to carry instead, for the same reasons that it's okayed for the PRK it should be okay here.

    If this topic gets deleted it will be unfortunate. Aside from the fact that we should support teens OCing how they can, this case could have important implications for the definition of brandishing, and that would apply to any guns a person could carry.
    Agreed, I hope this stays. Obviously the rule regarding long-gun carry for the website is a rule for which most here can see the logic. However, I think the worthiness of making an exception in this case has been clearly stated.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    I'm with oldstyle on this. Very much on topic if he couldn't manage to get a handgun to carry instead, for the same reasons that it's okayed for the PRK it should be okay here.

    If this topic gets deleted it will be unfortunate. Aside from the fact that we should support teens OCing how they can, this case could have important implications for the definition of brandishing, and that would apply to any guns a person could carry.
    Agreed:

    Another article with more info:
    http://troy.patch.com/articles/witne...is-legal-right

    "He is scheduled to be arraigned May 2 on charges of disturbing the peace, brandishing a weapon and obstructing an investigation."
    Disturbing the peace by merely OC, would they have even tried to charge him with this or brandishing if it was a pistol?

    Obstructing an investigation, for failing to produce ID upon request. Another OC related issue that could possibly set a precedent that could affect us all.

    IMHO While it may not have been the wisest decision to do what he did (Not knowing if it was his only option to) He was well within his legal rights (knowing only what I have read thus far) I do however appear to see several laws that may have been broken by the police involved in this matter. Wanting to avoid a potential lawsuit (civil or federal) to the department and city I would speculate charges will be dropped and his weapon returned eventually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    I believe it will as well, however, given the situation at hand, would the same have happened if he were OC'ing a handgun?

    I think the mods should allow this one as an education type thread of what to do, and not to do.

    I also find this rule applicable to Michigan, as a "long gun" under 30" is considered a pistol in michigan, am I correct?
    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    I'm with oldstyle on this. Very much on topic if he couldn't manage to get a handgun to carry instead, for the same reasons that it's okayed for the PRK it should be okay here.

    If this topic gets deleted it will be unfortunate. Aside from the fact that we should support teens OCing how they can, this case could have important implications for the definition of brandishing, and that would apply to any guns a person could carry.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Agreed, I hope this stays. Obviously the rule regarding long-gun carry for the website is a rule for which most here can see the logic. However, I think the worthiness of making an exception in this case has been clearly stated.
    Add me to the list. This one touches on too many relevant issues to be deleted based on the LGOC rule.

    I hope this guy makes a killing off this thing.

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    Email sent, reminding that OC is already legal in those areas. I let them know that SB59 would dramatically increase the training for those licensed, and would give them the option to conceal if they wish.

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    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    I am going to leave this thread. It is not an advocacy thread for open carry of a long gun but a news report of someone who did so ... and an educational news report at that.


    John

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    Herr Heckler Koch
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    The cautionary note in the article, forewarned is forearmed, is the conventional wisdom of requiring "ownership information" for this weapon chattel as though it is particularly subject to lawful seizure.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    I am going to leave this thread. It is not an advocacy thread for open carry of a long gun but a news report of someone who did so ... and an educational news report at that.


    John
    Thank you John.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    I believe it will as well, however, given the situation at hand, would the same have happened if he were OC'ing a handgun?

    I think the mods should allow this one as an education type thread of what to do, and not to do.

    I also find this rule applicable to Michigan, as a "long gun" under 30" is considered a pistol in michigan, am I correct?
    I have OC'ed in Birmingham many times with No Issues, eastmeyers and I both the last few times.
    Last edited by PDinDetroit; 04-18-2012 at 09:16 AM.

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    As far as the ownership question of the rifle, whatever happened to "Possession is 9/10ths of the law"? Or is that just when it's convenient for them? If its a bag of weed, or an unregistered gun, or a stolen item, it's yours according to the prosecution.

    Methinks the cops wanted a nice 1500$ rifle for themselves.

    PS. Thanks John.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 04-18-2012 at 10:14 AM.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    If the law is silent on this question, or is in the favor of the 'kid', then it is a simple case of 'contempt of cop'. Cops don't like being dissed, even when them getting dissed is perfectly legal.

    The type of firearm is somewhat irrelevant, the 'kid' looked underage is the issue in my view. Though, if a 'older' dude was doing the same thing, OC a LG, the same result may have occurred. But, I'll hazard a guess that a 'older' dude would have been able to avoid getting the 'ride'. And still have the cops by the short ones.

    Though, some folks may say that the kid deserved it. If he had just 'handed over his papers' he may have had avoided the 'ride'.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

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    Is there an OC thing planned yet?

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    As far as the ownership question of the rifle, whatever happened to "Possession is 9/10ths of the law"? Or is that just when it's convenient for them? If its a bag of weed, or an unregistered gun, or a stolen item, it's yours according to the prosecution.

    Methinks the cops wanted a nice 1500$ rifle for themselves.

    PS. Thanks John.
    There have been reports that this was an M1 .30 Cal Carbine with a Single .30 Cal Round Loaded. I believe you can pick those up for far less than $1500 (can pick up an M1 Garand for cheaper than that as well).

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    Thought it was an M1A, sorry. Isnt a .30 carbine M1 a collectable?

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    not a $1500 rifle, but not a $100 mosin either.

    only one round loaded? thats rather pointless...
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lil_freak_66 View Post

    only one round loaded? thats rather pointless...
    Of course its pointless; carbines are loaded with 110 gn FMJRN.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Thought it was an M1A, sorry. Isnt a .30 carbine M1 a collectable?
    Depends if it is USGI or a "Retail Replica". Plenty of "Retail Replica" Universal .30 Carbine M1's out there for sale, usually less than $400 with some amount of ammo included (but many are "problem children"). There have been 2 Plainfields (another "Retail Replica") that I have looked at recently, right around $350-$450. Heck, Kahr is making them BRAND NEW under the Auto-Ordnance Label...

    http://www.auto-ordnance.com/Firearm...nce-AOM130.asp

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