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Thread: FL reciprocity with WI :-/

  1. #1
    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    FL reciprocity with WI :-/

    Message I got back from FL when I asked them:


    "Unfortunately, it does not appear that reciprocity agreement between Florida and Wisconsin is going to happen. The problem is that we (Florida) do not qualify for reciprocity with Wisconsin. Authorities in Madison informed us of this fact after we approached them with an offer of reciprocity. Apparently, another state can qualify for reciprocity with Wisconsin only if the eligibility requirements and processing standards in that other state sufficiently match Wisconsin's requirements and standards. The problem centers around an important difference in the way which our two states conduct background checks. Please let me to explain further.

    Here in Florida, we are required by law to conduct a fingerprint-based background check on individuals applying for a Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm License. This is both a statewide and a nationwide background check conducted through the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the FBI. It is very important to note, however, that while this background check includes a review of a number of criminal history databases, it does not include a search of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). The NICS database search is a name-based search only, and the fingerprint-based background check conducted in Florida does not include overview of NICS information.

    Under your state's new concealed weapon licensing law, authorities are required to conduct a background check of license applicants that includes the NICS database for the purpose of determining whether an applicant is prohibited from possessing a firearm under state or federal law. In addition, Wisconsin's new law allows for the recognition of concealed weapon licenses issued by another state only if the background check conducted by that state is comparable to the type of background check that Wisconsin conducts for its concealed license applicants.

    In short, Florida simply does not meet standards set forth in Wisconsin law that would allow authorities there to recognize the Florida concealed weapon license, and because Wisconsin authorities have indicated that they cannot recognize concealed weapon licenses issued by the State of Florida, we cannot honor concealed weapon licenses issued by the State of Wisconsin.

    I wish I had better news concerning between Florida and Wisconsin. Regrettably, it appears that our two states are at a stalemate on this issue. I hope the information in this e-mail sheds some light on the legal issues involved. In the meantime, you can certainly apply for a Florida license. Unfortunately, I cannot provide you with a precise answer with regard to turnaround time. At the moment, we are issuing licenses within approximately 6 weeks after receipt of a complete application. However, we have seen a sharp increase in the demand for concealed weapon licenses in the past few months, and it is likely that this turnaround time will increase."


    Well, at least they tried and made an effort. Looks like a non-res is the only option. At least FL gives you lots of other states.
    Last edited by xenophon; 04-17-2012 at 03:32 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    according to uscarry.com map you get one more state with a florida non resident permit than a utah non resident it would of been great if they would of enter into an agreement
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    according to uscarry.com map you get one more state with a florida non resident permit than a utah non resident it would of been great if they would of enter into an agreement
    Also Utah will give you Minnesota which Florida will not. A no brainer for me. It sure would have been nice though.
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    Thumbs up Ease of Florida Renewal

    My Florida permit was up for renewal in October last year and set to expire on April 10th, 2012. I just happened to have a vacation scheduled down there starting on April 9th. I wanted to get my permit renewed before I went down, but I was hoping for reciprocity and didn't want to drop the $80 renewal fee if I didn't have to. I waited too long to have it done by mail so I had to figure out how to renew once I got down there. I called Florida's licensing agency and was informed that I could renew on-site at one of their local offices and receive my renewed license immediately. I drove to the closest office, which for me was in Punta Gorda, gave them the money order for $80, had a new picture taken and walked out with my renewed license 20 minutes after I walked in, one day before it was to expire.

    Even though we probably won't get reciprocity with them, Florida sure makes it easy to get an out-of-state permit. I have both a Florida and Utah. I still have to get Arizona so I can carry in Nevada when I go there. I think that is the most efficient way to get the most carry options across the country.

    Here's the contact info for licensing:

    Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services
    Division of Licensing
    P.O. Box 6687
    Tallahassee, Fl. 32314-6687
    1-850-245-5691

    Fast Ed
    Last edited by Fast Ed; 04-18-2012 at 12:02 PM. Reason: additiona information

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Angry


    Looks like we need to get to contacting our legislators again, since DOJ is (once again) playing fast & loose with the law.
    WI law says a BG check by another state must be "comparable to" the NICS check done by WI.
    I don't know of any person [outside the DOJ] who'd say that a background check run by the FBI, based on fingerprints, is NOT at least equal to one based on a name.


    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/RSB/STATS.HTML
    175.60(1)(f)
    (f) “Out−of−state license” means a valid permit, license, approval, or other authorization issued by another state if all of the following apply:
    1. The permit, license, approval, or other authorization is for the carrying of a concealed weapon.
    2. The state is listed in the rule promulgated by the department under s. 165.25 (12)
    and,
    if that state does not require a background search for the permit, license, approval, or authorization, the permit, license, approval, or authorization designates that the holder chose to submit to a background search.

    [FL requires a background check. I don't know of any state that issues a carry license that does not do a BG check.]


    165.25 (12) RULES REGARDING CONCEALED WEAPONS LICENSES.
    Promulgate by rule a list of states that issue a permit, license, approval, or other authorization to carry a concealed weapon if the permit, license, approval, or other authorization requires, or designates that the holder chose to submit to, a background search that is comparable to a background check as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (ac).


    175.60 License to carry a concealed weapon.
    (1) DEFINITIONS. In this section:
    (ac) “Background check” means the searches the department conducts under sub. (9g) to determine a person’s eligibility for a license to carry a concealed weapon.


    (9g) BACKGROUND CHECKS.
    (a) The department shall conduct a background check regarding an applicant for a license using the following procedure:
    1. The department shall create a confirmation number associated with the applicant.
    2. The department shall conduct a criminal history record search and shall search its records and conduct a search in the national instant criminal background check system to determine whether the applicant is prohibited from possessing a firearm under federal law...

  6. #6
    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Ed View Post
    Even though we probably won't get reciprocity with them, Florida sure makes it easy to get an out-of-state permit.
    Fast Ed,
    I'm going to disagree on Florida making it "easy" to get an out of state permit, and I'll state 3 reasons why:

    1. Notarized app
    2. Fingerprints
    3. Passport photo

    If it was just fill out the app online and mail it in, that'd be easy. But having to do those 3 steps above makes it a bit of an annoyance to get everything all set up. Those 3 steps were like $21 extra dollars for me. $10 for fingerprints, $3 for notarize, and another $10 for passport photos.

    I do agree that they make it easy in that they mail you the app, fingerprint card, and return envelope, if requested (online or by phone/email). But that doesn't excuse the extra hops one has to do.

    On the flip side, I agree it's worth the hoops at least, because FL does get you a lot.

    I'm relieved the WI APP is so simple and doesn't require the above hoops, we are very lucky here.

  7. #7
    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post

    Looks like we need to get to contacting our legislators again, since DOJ is (once again) playing fast & loose with the law.
    WI law says a BG check by another state must be "comparable to" the NICS check done by WI.
    I don't know of any person [outside the DOJ] who'd say that a background check run by the FBI, based on fingerprints, is NOT at least equal to one based on a name.
    It's definitely COMPARABLE in that it's a nationwide search!!! I wonder if the rules committee can clarify or put more force in that. Maybe they can say in the rules that a FBI background is comparable to NICS.

    Who do we need to write/call on this one? I'm down for some letters.

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    is this something different from the NICS you are talking about???

    because it seems that it's run through the FBI.

    and launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998
    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

    so like previously stated, how is a fingerprint check not at least EQUAL (i would say it's way above a name search)???

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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio_vette View Post
    is this something different from the NICS you are talking about???

    because it seems that it's run through the FBI.



    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

    so like previously stated, how is a fingerprint check not at least EQUAL (i would say it's way above a name search)???
    A fingerprint check requires, suprisingly enough, fingerprints. While many good and honorable people are fingerprinted for various reasons not every scofflaw is fingerprinted and even if fingerprinted, not every fingerprint record is reachable by search. A name search via NICS and a fingerprint search for bad actors will come up with two different sets of individuals. A lot of overlap to be sure but not the same. Florida has determined that their method is preferable. Wisconsin has made another decision. Florida could add NICS by name but there is a cost to doing so. If Florida demanded a fingerprint-based search from Wisconsin, you could imagine the howls of protest. DoJ has its faults but their call on this one falls squarely in the area of reasonable.

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    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    The Florida concealed carry license is administered by their Agriculture Department. It is not a law enforcement agency, and therefore cannot do the NICS check required by federal law. Only “law enforcement agencies” can access NICS.

    Why is the Florida license is accepted by so many states but not Wisconsin? The answer: Because a Madison based bureaucrat that wished to limit the value of a Wisconsin concealed carry license convinced J.B. that is how it should be.

    http://www.usacarry.com/florida_conc...formation.html
    Last edited by Flipper; 04-21-2012 at 06:09 PM.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipper View Post
    The Florida concealed carry license is administered by their Agriculture Department. It is not a law enforcement agency, and therefore cannot do the NICS check required by federal law. Only “law enforcement agencies” can access NICS.

    Why is the Florida license is accepted by so many states but not Wisconsin? The answer: Because a Madison based bureaucrat that wished to limit the value of a Wisconsin concealed carry license convinced J.B. that is how it should be.

    http://www.usacarry.com/florida_conc...formation.html
    Ok, the permanent rules are in the comment period. Write up the change and send it to the DOJ.

    Complaining about it here won't get it changed.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    FL is about to loose WA. FL is going to recognize military under 21...WA won't allow for that so unless WA changes their requirements, WA will no longer recognize FL very soon.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    FL is about to loose WA. FL is going to recognize military under 21...WA won't allow for that so unless WA changes their requirements, WA will no longer recognize FL very soon.
    Why doesn't WA do what WI did and just say that if they honor the out of state license, the person must also be 21 or over.

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