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Thread: On duty law enforcement deaths in 2011.

  1. #1
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    On duty law enforcement deaths in 2011.

    Of the approximately 89,000 law enforcement officers in the U.S. 173 were killed while on duty in 2011. Of those 173, sixty eight were from gunfire. 39% of the total deaths. Based on the population of 89,000 a risk factor of .0764. A risk far below that of farming and many other activities. The death of even one officer killed by gunfire while performing his/her duties is unacceptable, but I think it must be put into perspective.

    What is it then that causes such a gun paranoia among law enforcement? Being shot to death is certainly not a pleasant way to die, but neither is burning to death in a car crash, an event that happens daily. An event that for some morbid reason doesn't seem to fill us with undue concern. Maybe something told to me by my brother may explain part of the paranoia. He spent 25 years in law enforcement, county, city, street cop, detective. He said that "when you spend all of your working life dealing with the scum of society you forget that you are only dealing with 10% of society. 90% of society is peace abiding people that mean you no harm, but because of the daily exposure to the scum you begin to be suspicious of society in general. You eventually get into the mind set that the very thought of anyone but you carrying a firearm is frightening". Paranoia being a contageous disease soon migrates into the public, only to be fueled by biased media and anti-gun self interest groups.

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    Actual link to info?


    I can't link this but 90 something % of statistics are made up...

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Thanks, wasn't doubting just want to be able to prove it if I'm called out when I'm talking about it.



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    Also on a side note, Fire fighting is not up there any more. We must be doing our job and staying alive more!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    Maybe something told to me by my brother may explain part of the paranoia. He spent 25 years in law enforcement, county, city, street cop, detective. He said that "when you spend all of your working life dealing with the scum of society you forget that you are only dealing with 10% of society."
    That is the root of the problem: cops don't really spend all of their working lives dealing with the scum of society, but after a while they start treating everyone they deal with as scum.

    That includes crime victims from whom they take reports, accident victims, people who are guilty of nothing more than a minor traffic violation, etc., and those people are the bulk of their working lives. They're not necessarily scum of the earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    Of the approximately 89,000 law enforcement officers in the U.S.
    Where are Earth did you get that number? there are almost half that in New York City alone.

    Did you mean to post 890,000?

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    Numbers may be off but he is right. Low probability of being shot. I also don't believe it is fair to compare it to farming or whatever else (I grew up on a farm, and am an officer).

    If get killed farming it usually cause I made a mistake or ignored a hazard or was plain ol being stupid. If I get shot it may be by no fault of my own other than I wore the uniform. That being said I am way more afraid of getting hit on the freeway then shot.

    I hate to see ANYONE killed just because of a wrong place wrong time thing and by no fault of their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    The above link certainly contains the 68 shooting related deaths in the line of duty for LEOS in 2011. This is a tragedy for their families and friends, as well as for the citizens they were sworn to serve and protect.

    The other link: http://www.businessinsider.com/most-...bs-2011-9?op=1 has some information for 2010. 18 fatalities per 100,000 and 133 fatalities in 2010, would divide out to

    133/18 * 100,000 or roughly 739,000 police and sheriff's patrol officers in 2010.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

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    Yeah pkbites I did mean 890,000. Sorry for the confusion. That would also interpolate to make the risk factor even smaller. In research I found that the actual count of "law enforcement" officers in the U.S. is elusive. It can be as low or high as you want to make it depending on which agencies and types of officers you include. i.e. college campus police, university police, non tactical personnel, conservation officers, etc. I think the count of 890,000 is probably a fair figure if you intend the figure to represent those law enforcement officers that daily put themselves in harm's way. The intent of my post was to suggest that the element of probability of a law enforcement officer being killed by gunfire on the job is very low. By saying that I don't want to imply that I think it is insignificant, I don't. One officer killed in the line of duty is too many. My intent was to put it in perpective. The link Protias posted indicates that of the 15 most dangerous jobs in America, law enforcement ranks number 9. Farmers and ranchers ranked No. 4.

  12. #12
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Does Blackstone's Ratio apply as well to shootings as to hangings?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacks...7s_formulation

    Professor Volokh - http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    as well as for the citizens they were sworn to serve and protect.
    Good one. Did you forget you were back to the future of 2012? There is no legal, or otherwise, obligation to serve or protect.

    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Good one. Did you forget you were back to the future of 2012? There is no legal, or otherwise, obligation to serve or protect.

    You should attend a LEO swearing in ceremony, and then edit your post.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

  15. #15
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Protection of individuals The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled numerous times since 1856 that law enforcement officers have no duty to protect any individual, despite the motto "protect and serve".

    Their duty is to enforce the law in general.

    The first such case was in 1855 (South et al. v. State of Maryland, U.S (Supreme Court of the United States 1855). ) and the most recent in 2005 (Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales).

    http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar_...=1&oi=scholarr

    http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/su...04-278.ZS.html

    http://faculty.law.miami.edu/zfenton...leRockcase.pdf

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    Regular Member oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    You should attend a LEO swearing in ceremony, and then edit your post.
    Don't They also swear to obey and uphold the constitution?

  17. #17
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    Don't They also swear to obey and uphold the constitution?
    Same as junior NCO's.

    10 USC 502 "I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

  18. #18
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    You should attend a LEO swearing in ceremony, and then edit your post.
    Perhaps you should research "the Militarization of Police". And then edit your post.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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