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Cowlitz Courthouse carry

elkjunkie

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Apr 18, 2012
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7
Location
longview, wa
Hello all. I've been checking out your forum occasionally for the past year or so. Yesterday I needed to drop a sworn declaration and witness statement at the court clerks office. I was carrying as I do every day and politely informed the sheriff at the door. He was very rude and despite having an empty lock box in plain view, denied me entry. I had no issues using the lock boxes when called for jury duty a couple months ago. Dissappointing. I informed the officer that with my cpl he was required to provide me a lockbox. Was I wrong?
 

sudden valley gunner

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Dec 13, 2008
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Whatcom County
Hello all. I've been checking out your forum occasionally for the past year or so. Yesterday I needed to drop a sworn declaration and witness statement at the court clerks office. I was carrying as I do every day and politely informed the sheriff at the door. He was very rude and despite having an empty lock box in plain view, denied me entry. I had no issues using the lock boxes when called for jury duty a couple months ago. Dissappointing. I informed the officer that with my cpl he was required to provide me a lockbox. Was I wrong?

Cowlitz is required by law to provide lockbox and hand you the key or designate an official to hold your weapon, no CPL required. I argue that no ID is required either.
 

slapmonkay

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Montana
Only restricted areas of a courthouse are off limits. The general public locations besides the courtrooms and chambers should still be okay. I assume to drop off a sworn statement it would have been to one of the windows in this general access area, therefore, you likely didn't need to check a firearm...

(b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).
 
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oneeyeross

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Feb 28, 2010
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Winlock, , USA
Only restricted areas of a courthouse are off limits. The general public locations besides the courtrooms and chambers should still be okay. I assume to drop off a sworn statement it would have been to one of the windows in this general access area, therefore, you likely didn't need to check a firearm...

While I agree that common areas are excluded, it isn't that way in practice, at least not in Lewis county. You get stopped right inside the door and can go no further...
 

elkjunkie

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Apr 18, 2012
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longview, wa
Thanks for the replies. I did some digging and found the info I needed under RCW 9.41.300 third paragraph of 1), (b).
"In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for a pistol and a key to a weapon owner for weapon storage...."
Unfortunately the entire Courthouse in cowlitz is restricted. In the same RCW section it states about restricted areas not including common areas of ingress and egress "when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress." They are stretching this part.
I wish I could copy and paste with this lame phone. Guess its too"smart" for me.
 

BigDave

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Yakima, Washington, USA
Unless concealed carrying one does not need a CPL to have their firearm secured, note they are required to provide a lock box or a designated official to receive weapons for safe keeping and must be with in the same building.



RCW 9.41.300
Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.


(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;
(b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).
For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.
In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.
The local judicial authority shall designate and clearly mark those areas where weapons are prohibited, and shall post notices at each entrance to the building of the prohibition against weapons in the restricted areas;
 

Levi

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Mar 20, 2012
Messages
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Location
Tacoma
RCW 9.41.300
Weapons prohibited in certain places -- Local laws and ordinances -- Exceptions -- Penalty.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

(b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).

For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.

In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.


As I read it, there's no requirement for you to have a permit. Seems I should also deposit my pocket knife too.
 

elkjunkie

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Apr 18, 2012
Messages
7
Location
longview, wa
Thanks for pasting that RCW bigdave and Levi. I just couldn't do it from my phone. Oneeyeross the cowlitz courthouse is the same way. Can't even get a coffee n the lobby.....and I love guns and coffee. BTW I was just in Winlock at FatBoys hotrods. Hope they get that road fixed soon.
 

oneeyeross

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Feb 28, 2010
Messages
500
Location
Winlock, , USA
Thanks for pasting that RCW bigdave and Levi. I just couldn't do it from my phone. Oneeyeross the cowlitz courthouse is the same way. Can't even get a coffee n the lobby.....and I love guns and coffee. BTW I was just in Winlock at FatBoys hotrods. Hope they get that road fixed soon.

Road fixed...hahahahhahaha.....oh....sorry. Yes, they think it will be done a few days early. Seems they found a cement culvert of the right size and don't have to make one.
 

WOD

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Feb 13, 2012
Messages
224
Location
Onalaska WA
Lewis County Courthouse lobby guards are courteous, at least the older gentleman was.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Thanks for the replies. I did some digging and found the info I needed under RCW 9.41.300 third paragraph of 1), (b).
"In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for a pistol and a key to a weapon owner for weapon storage...."
Unfortunately the entire Courthouse in cowlitz is restricted. In the same RCW section it states about restricted areas not including common areas of ingress and egress "when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress." They are stretching this part.
I wish I could copy and paste with this lame phone. Guess its too"smart" for me.

I was successful in making Whatcom County rearrange their security ropes so that it follows the law and I have access to many of the non-courthouse related areas, like executive office, county council chambers and all the other 1st floor areas, since our courthouses are on the second floor.

Investigate, inquire, and ask for them to comply with laws, Lock box, restrictive areas, etc....you'd be surprised at what you as a lone citizen demanding what is right can accomplish.
 

jt59

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Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
1,005
Location
Central South Sound
RCW 9.41.300
Weapons prohibited in certain places -- Local laws and ordinances -- Exceptions -- Penalty.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

(b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).

For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.
.


As I read it, there's no requirement for you to have a permit. Seems I should also deposit my pocket knife too.

Not all knives:

...that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury. (unless your in King County)
 

elkjunkie

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Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
7
Location
longview, wa
It's always nice to here of pleasant and respectful interactions. I should mention that for three days of jury duty I had no issues using the lockboxes, and had pleasant interactions with a number of the deputies who handle security. I have been asked to leave my leatherman in my truck. It seems that is a rights violation as well. Good work at Whatcom sudden valley gunner. We'll se how my conversation goes with the sheriff.
 
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BigDave

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Nov 22, 2006
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Yakima, Washington, USA
RCW 9.41.300
Weapons prohibited in certain places -- Local laws and ordinances -- Exceptions -- Penalty.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

(b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).

For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.

In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.


As I read it, there's no requirement for you to have a permit. Seems I should also deposit my pocket knife too.

Not all knives:

...that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury. (unless your in King County)

This includes Any Knife as being restricted. This is where people misinform themselves by poke and pick what part of the language they are wanting to use to suit their need or desire.

"or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury."

This clearly states any knife and goes on to similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury .... which I feel items as a sword, spear or even baseball bats, clubs and so on, taking any type of knife as you suggest could and likely either be denied access or to the extreme being charged.
 

gogodawgs

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Federal Way, Washington, USA
This includes Any Knife as being restricted. This is where people misinform themselves by poke and pick what part of the language they are wanting to use to suit their need or desire.

"or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury."

This clearly states any knife and goes on to similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury .... which I feel items as a sword, spear or even baseball bats, clubs and so on, taking any type of knife as you suggest could and likely either be denied access or to the extreme being charged.

While I understand where you are coming from, I would like you to cite law or court decisions that back your assertion. What you are asserting is that my common 3in folding pocket knife is restricted. I do not see a common 3in folder that thousands carry every day to open boxes with while at work as .... "and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury."

Perhaps you can cite an appellate or supreme court decision here in Washington that backs your assertion.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Whatcom County
While I understand where you are coming from, I would like you to cite law or court decisions that back your assertion. What you are asserting is that my common 3in folding pocket knife is restricted. I do not see a common 3in folder that thousands carry every day to open boxes with while at work as .... "and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury."

Perhaps you can cite an appellate or supreme court decision here in Washington that backs your assertion.

It is capable of causing harm though....
 

BigDave

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While I understand where you are coming from, I would like you to cite law or court decisions that back your assertion. What you are asserting is that my common 3in folding pocket knife is restricted. I do not see a common 3in folder that thousands carry every day to open boxes with while at work as .... "and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury."

Perhaps you can cite an appellate or supreme court decision here in Washington that backs your assertion.

Really lol, you should know that there is only case law when a law is challenged.
Lets bring your attention to the punctuation and how it applies.

For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.

Note; OR ANY KNIFE, OR OTHER SIMILAR WEAPON THAT IS CAPABLE .....

The issue being raised is commonly used..... Note this has to do with Or Other Similar Weapon, Any Knife is what it says, any knife.
 
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gogodawgs

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Really lol, you should know that there is only case law when a law is challenged.
Lets bring your attention to the punctuation and how it applies.

Note; OR ANY KNIFE, OR OTHER SIMILAR WEAPON THAT IS CAPABLE .....

The issue being raised is commonly used..... Note this has to do with Or Other Similar Weapon, Any Knife is what it says, any knife.

I understand, and if there is no case law, it is equally likely not being challenged because no 3in folding knives are ever brought to trial or appeal because they do not meet the final qualifying statement of the law.

and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.
(see I can highlight in red too! :D)
 

sudden valley gunner

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Whatcom County
I understand, and if there is no case law, it is equally likely not being challenged because no 3in folding knives are ever brought to trial or appeal because they do not meet the final qualifying statement of the law.

(see I can highlight in red too! :D)

Ahhh I see how you are reading that now, I was reading it as both sections being a qualifier. But with that specific or and then the and.....good point.

I just saw security deny a guy from taking his very small pocket knife past check point the other day.
 
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