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Thread: Tasers

  1. #1
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    Tasers

    On the news this morning taser bill passed the senate, will soon be legal in Mi

  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    It passed the house. The package originated in the Senate but was changed by the house. Thus, the Senate needs to concur with the changes (direct up/down floor vote) before the bill becomes "enrolled".
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

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    A tazer will not do what a gun will do. For one thing, its no good until you get close, really close. You cant use it against more than one person, and you really can't reload and keep going. You can sink a glock, and it will work, not so with a tazer.

    I do feel that tazers, as well as any other thing that might be used as a weapon, is protected my the second amendment.

  4. #4
    Regular Member WOD's Avatar
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    There is also the issue of missing with one of the prongs. A Taser is useless if only one of the prongs finds the target. In a high adrenaline situation, what are the odds that the defender will actually hit the target with both electrodes, and actuate them correctly? In a home environment, the odds go down, for the simple fact that there are more obstructions, like table lamps, high backed furniture etc.. Outside in an open environment, a Taser is a decent non-lethal alternative. In the home, I don't think it would be as useful. Just my take on this.
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    It is my understanding that the ballistic tazers are still going to be off limits. You are however, correct in your assertion.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    The shooting prong will be made legal. I'm not sure about so-called "stun guns" (melee weapon).
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    My issue it's it seems to limit us to the rather retarded "C2" tazer. The C2 is designed to be politically correct, shorter range by 20 feet (15 foot as opposed to 35 foot range, putting it well within the 21 foot danger zone, tazer does not even sell 15 foot cartriges for the other models except as trainers), and standard cartriges will not fit, not "pistol shaped" more Star Trek The next Generation "Phaser Shaped", in other words completely impractical, and lousy ergonomics, the whole thing is designed to make liberals feel all warm, and fuzzy (and fails). Really it was designed by the elitist ******* that run tazer to be a neutered "good enough" for us mere peons design as that's all they feel we need (sort of reminds me of the anti civilian policies of HK, and Colt) (they also do things like serialization, manditory registration, and background checks even though they don't have to), and that's the one the legislature picked. I doubt I would carry a tazer as it's just extra bulk, and of limited use, and could be an issue if I ever had to use the gun because it would allow someone to say "you had a tazer, why did you have to shoot him?" as they Monday morning quarterback my having to shoot, but if I did carry a tazer I would want a non neutered one like an X26.

    If the changes the house made were mandating the stupid C2 I want the Senate to shoot it down. allow us tazers, or not, but don't stick us with having to use the neutered C2s.

    If Tazer would sell the good stuff to us peons is another story, but I have seen their products at other vendors, and I have no issue violating tazers anti civilian policy, but don't make their policy law.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    I am not interested in carrying one, but i hope it passes so people have the choice. Some people can not come to grips with the possibility of killing another person, even if it is self defense, this would at least give them another option for SD. My state rep sponsored a bill for this several years ago and it never went anywhere, happy it is now. Now they just need to come down in price, those damn things are expensive
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    I want to see the youtube video when Tex shoots himself with it.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Let me see....

    For self defense my responsibility is to ensure I survive..... whether or not my assailant(s) remain unharmed is not my responsibility...

    So...............

    Single shot tazer vs multiple shot Glock....

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmm....
    Last edited by Bikenut; 04-20-2012 at 05:13 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I'm happy to see this pass. My mom is hesistant to get her CPL because she really doesn't want to carry a gun (I don't know why exactly), but says she'd love to be able to carry a taser. Sure a gun is better but why not give people the option. If you don't want to carry a taser DON'T! To me it may be worth it to carry a gun and a taser.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
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    I really dont want to have anything more on my belt.

    I also have more faith in bullets working when I need them, than batteries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    I'm happy to see this pass. My mom is hesistant to get her CPL because she really doesn't want to carry a gun (I don't know why exactly), but says she'd love to be able to carry a taser. Sure a gun is better but why not give people the option. If you don't want to carry a taser DON'T! To me it may be worth it to carry a gun and a taser.
    This is really a win win for your Mother as the CPL with additional "training" are required. At a later time, she may choose to carry a pistol and she will already have the CPL to do so along with being able to purchase a pistol without the LTP (28.422) requirement.

  14. #14
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Let me see....

    For self defense my responsibility is to ensure I survive..... whether or not my assailant(s) remain unharmed is not my responsibility...

    So...............

    Single shot tazer vs multiple shot Glock....

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmm....
    I do not disagree with the logic here, but there is a place in the "Personal Protection Arsenal" for "Less Lethal Options" such a OC Spray (Fox Labs 5.3 comes to mind).

  15. #15
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Discussions on Tasers and OC "Less Lethal Options" at the following links. Trek of MDFI teaches the Less Lethal course and provides quite good information in the second link.

    http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...d.php?t=175669

    http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...d.php?t=175042

    http://www.michigantrainer.com/index...d=39&Itemid=41

  16. #16
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    This is a pretty good demonstration of the capabilities of tasers to fumble and fail.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG2M7er_txc

    I had one, left it behind when I came back here.

    I hold them in the same regard as I do pepper spray, and other less lethal devices. They are great as a primary weapon for stopping dangerous yet unarmed assailants, but only in those circumstances where the operator is backed up by at least one person with a gun. As an individual means of defense, they are lacking. For a stand alone weapon, I'd rather have a good knife, personally.

    That's not to say that the government has any business prohibiting them, I do want them to become completely de regulated. But still, I don't suggest carrying them in most cases, particularly for those who aren't armed as a requirement for work.
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    I concur with many of you gentlemen. The fact that the user only gets one shot, with dinimished range and then the need for both prongs to hit and penetrate, forget that. Like Michigander wrote: "I'd rather have a good knife personally." Small_Arms_Collector made a good point too about the Monday morning QB of a prosector trying to paint you as a cold-blooded killer because you couldve used a less than leathal option.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

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    Regular Member michaelm_ski's Avatar
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    Taser

    You know not everyone is able to carry a gun due to whatever is their hang up but any weapon is better than none at all especially if it is an older woman . If you take the fight to them most likely they will get out of the threat area because they are cowards , If the taser saves one female or elderly person it is good in my book .
    Last edited by michaelm_ski; 04-22-2012 at 06:11 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    +1. It's about personal choice.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelm_ski View Post
    You know not everyone is able to carry a gun due to whatever is their hang up but any weapon is better than none at all especially if it is an older woman . If you take the fight to them most likely they will get out of the threat area because they are cowards , If the taser saves one female or elderly person it is good in my book .
    Older women who practice fighting can be as dangerous as anyone. When you're experienced, fast, and have the capability to be utterly viscious, that's what counts. Age and genitals need not mean much in a fight.

    Not that I'm trying to pick on you, because in fact for the most part I agree with your philosophy, but it's worth mentioning on that note that it's really fascinating how weapons should be good at reducing gender steriotypes, and meanwhile weapons intensify them almost universally.
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    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Ballistic taser as in one that fires are the ones allowed in this bill. see the video URL below.

    http://www.michigantaser.com/files/T...o%20Launch.wmv



    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    It is my understanding that the ballistic tazers are still going to be off limits. You are however, correct in your assertion.
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 05-02-2012 at 11:44 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    The very reason I started to lobby the state reps back in 2009 was because some people have a philosophical, or moral problem with shooting someone as to them it makes their first choice a deadly one. I do not share this mindset nor do I condemn it. My first priority was the safety of all law abiding citizens and from day one it was an uphill battle with many no's on the bill proposal. Finally after months of wasting my time I called them all back one by one and stated the media and I will see it this way "you Mr rep will and do support the defense of oneself by shooting someone with a potentially lethal weapon, and are going on the record saying you would rather this happen than allow someone to a less than lethal choice for self defense" That was the tie breaker so to speak. I got several letters with some in full support and others in a half hearted support but all in all I was able to get the attention of enough to allow this to happen. It took many telephoen calls and letters but we now have a Taser bill. There will be training afforded in the Taser DVD plus for those who are willing to carry the Taser there is an optional training online available through a college in Wisconsin. If someone wants to be certified to train people in the Civilian Taser the course if $99.00 with if I remember right a $200.00 credit in parts and accessories if you sell and train people. The training required is short ( around 15 to 20 minutes) this does not include the CPL license training.

    It seems some have an issue with thsoe who would choose a Taser, I do not, this is supposed to be a free country and people who are adults get the right to make decisions for themselves right or wrong. The Taser is not a fix all answer and neither is a hand gun, but it is far better than going unarmed. iwill still recommend a hand gun and training above and beyond the CPL class for someone who feels uneasy about a handgun, but for those who have moral reasons I am more than happy to help them get a Taser. Below is a link to some Taser Dealers already waiting for the bill to be passed/signed.

    If need be I can get anyone who needs the college course information, I have it on my desk and not here at the moment.

    Michigan Taser is the Michigan Authorized Taser International wholesale dealer to dealer sales outlet. Talk to Ron Denny he is a good and knowledgeable source for new dealers. 877.778.2737 this is for dealers ONLY. The link below is for anyone who wants retail information, and for what stores near you that may have Tasers when the bill is signed.
    http://www.michigantaser.com/


    http://www.michigantaser.com/files/M...%20Dealers.pdf <----retail dealers



    Quote Originally Posted by michaelm_ski View Post
    You know not everyone is able to carry a gun due to whatever is their hang up but any weapon is better than none at all especially if it is an older woman . If you take the fight to them most likely they will get out of the threat area because they are cowards , If the taser saves one female or elderly person it is good in my book .
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    well said!
    it is about personal choice an those who nay say are only making things more difficult. Some people have moral reasons that I do not fully understand, but it is their reason and I have mine that allows me to carry a gun. But it is far better to have something than nothing when that time comes to defend yourself and the Taser is yet another weapon for ones defense.


    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    I'm happy to see this pass. My mom is hesistant to get her CPL because she really doesn't want to carry a gun (I don't know why exactly), but says she'd love to be able to carry a taser. Sure a gun is better but why not give people the option. If you don't want to carry a taser DON'T! To me it may be worth it to carry a gun and a taser.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Neither am I interested in a Taser, I like my Glock 21's just fine. More options are better than few.

    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    I am not interested in carrying one, but i hope it passes so people have the choice. Some people can not come to grips with the possibility of killing another person, even if it is self defense, this would at least give them another option for SD. My state rep sponsored a bill for this several years ago and it never went anywhere, happy it is now. Now they just need to come down in price, those damn things are expensive
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  25. #25
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    This is really a win win for your Mother as the CPL with additional "training" are required. At a later time, she may choose to carry a pistol and she will already have the CPL to do so along with being able to purchase a pistol without the LTP (28.422) requirement.

    Not everyone is willing or able to kill or maim or seriously wound a person, even to save their life. Tasers bridge that personal choice gap, and give that person a viable option for self defense. However the realities, limitations of tasers must be known as well. Not everyone will be affected by it, weather can be a factor if it gets drowned it might fail when a firearm wouldn't. You get one shot before having to reload the cartridge and at the distance its effective this is unlikely inside 15 20 feet.

    I believe this is a a good thing so long as people don't expect more out of it than it effectively can deliver. Training will help, then of course practice with it, same as any self defense tool.

    X26 Tasers are out there for purchase if you look and that would be my choice, if the law mandates the C2 then the advantage to civilians declines quite a bit.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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