Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 67

Thread: The GFZ question

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ellsworth Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,213

    The GFZ question

    I read through Act-35. In it it mentiones GFZ. The one I am un clear about is the 1000ft froom schools. I understand that if I OC I MUST be 1000ft from the ecge of school property in ALL directions. But I am not clear if this applies to CC.

    Appreciate your help.

  2. #2
    Regular Member tomm1963's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    mke, ,
    Posts
    174
    Permission slip allows you in the zone but not ON school property.

  3. #3
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,668
    To give a more complete answer: If you have a CC license, you can open carry or conceal carry in the GFSZ. If you have no license, you can open carry on private property within a 1000' of school ground. Or if you're on your own property or other land or buildings that you legally reside or occupy (e.g. land, your residence, your place of business) then you can conceal without a license if you choose.
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ellsworth Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,213
    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    To give a more complete answer: If you have a CC license, you can open carry or conceal carry in the GFSZ. If you have no license, you can open carry on private property within a 1000' of school ground. Or if you're on your own property or other land or buildings that you legally reside or occupy (e.g. land, your residence, your place of business) then you can conceal without a license if you choose.
    so if I DON"T have a CCL I MUST be 1000ft from school property. If I have CCL I am ALLOWED to be in a GFSZ REGARDLESS if I OC or CC. Is that correct?

  5. #5
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...atutes/948/605

    948.605  Gun-free school zones.

    (1)  Definitions. In this section:
    (a) "Encased" has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (b).
    (ac) "Firearm" does not include any beebee or pellet-firing gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any starter pistol.
    (am) "Motor vehicle" has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (35).
    (b) "School" has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
    (c) "School zone" means any of the following:
    1. In or on the grounds of a school.
    2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.


    (2) Possession of firearm in school zone.
    (a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.
    (b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm by any of the following:
    1m. A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).
    1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Green County, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    147
    and if you go to drop your child off at school you may drive onto school grounds , but may not handle the gun , or get out of your car , and the gun should stay concealed

    this only applies if your are picking up dropping off or have business on school grounds .

    this is all of course provided you have a CCL


    unless you don't qualify for one , are admittedly apposed to a CCL for some reason , every one should get one

    it is .83 cents a month , yes , it is a tax we shouldn't have to pay , but there are lots of other taxes i shouldn't have to pay either.

  7. #7
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,047
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCountyPete View Post
    and if you go to drop your child off at school you may drive onto school grounds , but may not handle the gun , or get out of your car , and the gun should stay concealed

    this only applies if your are picking up dropping off or have business on school grounds .

    this is all of course provided you have a CCL



    unless you don't qualify for one , are admittedly apposed to a CCL for some reason , every one should get one

    it is .83 cents a month , yes , it is a tax we shouldn't have to pay , but there are lots of other taxes i shouldn't have to pay either.
    Can you provide a citation for this?

    A loaded firearm cannot be on school grounds, even in a car unless you have specific permission from the school board.

  8. #8
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCountyPete View Post
    and if you go to drop your child off at school you may drive onto school grounds , but may not handle the gun , or get out of your car , and the gun should stay concealed

    this only applies if your are picking up dropping off or have business on school grounds .
    The state law quoted above says no such thing.

  9. #9
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,497
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCountyPete View Post
    and if you go to drop your child off at school you may drive onto school grounds , but may not handle the gun , or get out of your car , and the gun should stay concealed

    this only applies if your are picking up dropping off or have business on school grounds .

    this is all of course provided you have a CCL


    unless you don't qualify for one , are admittedly apposed to a CCL for some reason , every one should get one

    it is .83 cents a month , yes , it is a tax we shouldn't have to pay , but there are lots of other taxes i shouldn't have to pay either.
    I have to agree with you on the "tax for a right" 100%, but I also have to agree with Paul. No carry at all on the grounds. The 1000 foot area would be fine, but not on the grounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Can you provide a citation for this?

    A loaded firearm cannot be on school grounds, even in a car unless you have specific permission from the school board.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Under your bed
    Posts
    542
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCountyPete View Post
    and if you go to drop your child off at school you may drive onto school grounds , but may not handle the gun , or get out of your car , and the gun should stay concealed

    this only applies if your are picking up dropping off or have business on school grounds .

    this is all of course provided you have a CCL
    Not in WI!

    Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ellsworth Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,213

    The answer from my CC instructor

    you are right that the new law does not change the 1000' rule. However, the federal GFSZ (Gun-Free School Zone) has always had a small phrase in it that allows the state to override the 1000' zone with their permit or license. Because of that, here's how it plays out:

    WITH a WI CCL, you can open carry or conceal carry a state-defined weapon within 1000' of a grades 1-12 school.
    WithOUT a WI CCL, you cannot open carry or conceal carry a state-defined weapon within 1000' of a grades 1-12 school.

    The combination of state and federal laws only addresses 'going armed' and does not specify a mode of carry. Open or concealed is up to you or other licensees who choose to enter the 1000' zone surrounding the school.

  12. #12
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...atutes/948/605

    948.605  Gun-free school zones. [ ... ]1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).
    No gun carrier can be on public property (as the highway) within 1000 feet of and not in or on school grounds.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Plankton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Just north of the Sheeple's Republik of Madistan
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    No gun carrier can be on public property (as the highway) within 1000 feet of and not in or on school grounds.
    A licensed carrier is excepted. Read your own quote.
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
    "Safety is the new Liberty, and recklessness is the new Freedom, and alcoholism is the new Doug Huffman."

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Milwaukee Wisconsin
    Posts
    542
    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    No gun carrier can be on public property (as the highway) within 1000 feet of and not in or on school grounds.
    I am disappointed that you have continuted to inaccurately describe or summarize the Wisconsin law with respect to the Gun Free School Zone. It has been explained to you several times with extensive citations of statute, which is further suppported by the DOJ FAQ, and once again you insisted on what you must know are incorrect responses to clear questions.

    A smart person, should not play such a stupid game.

    Shame.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

  15. #15
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...atutes/948/605


    1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).
    .

  16. #16
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    WithOUT a WI CCL, you cannot open carry or conceal carry a state-defined weapon within 1000' of a grades 1-12 school.
    To pick nits, there are several other exceptions as well.

    "A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii)."

    (i) on private property not part of schoolgrounds;
    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved
    by a school in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a
    contract entered into between a school in the
    school zone and the individual or an employer
    of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in
    his or her official capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an
    individual while traversing school premises for
    the purpose of gaining access to public or private
    lands open to hunting, if the entry on
    school premises is authorized by school authorities.

  17. #17
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Southsider der hey
    Posts
    1,320
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCountyPete View Post
    and if you go to drop your child off at school you may drive onto school grounds , but may not handle the gun , or get out of your car , and the gun should stay concealed

    this only applies if your are picking up dropping off or have business on school grounds .

    this is all of course provided you have a CCL


    unless you don't qualify for one , are admittedly apposed to a CCL for some reason , every one should get one

    it is .83 cents a month , yes , it is a tax we shouldn't have to pay , but there are lots of other taxes i shouldn't have to pay either.
    Sadly this is not correct, it SHOULD be but due to legalese double talk it isn't.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  18. #18
    Regular Member Plankton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Just north of the Sheeple's Republik of Madistan
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    I am disappointed that you have continuted to inaccurately describe or summarize the Wisconsin law with respect to the Gun Free School Zone. It has been explained to you several times with extensive citations of statute, which is further suppported by the DOJ FAQ, and once again you insisted on what you must know are incorrect responses to clear questions.

    A smart person, should not play such a stupid game.

    Shame.
    Remember that Doug/Master Doug/Herr Heckler Huffman is above all of us "commoners". Elitists believe that they are above the rules, and so does Doug/Master Doug/Herr Heckler Huffman. Doug/Master Doug/Herr Heckler Huffman was banned from this forum, yet here he is. Honor and honesty are more important to some, than others. I guess bitter old men that live on tiny little islands have a lot of free time.....
    Last edited by Plankton; 04-24-2012 at 08:59 AM.
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
    "Safety is the new Liberty, and recklessness is the new Freedom, and alcoholism is the new Doug Huffman."

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ellsworth Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,213
    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    I am disappointed that you have continuted to inaccurately describe or summarize the Wisconsin law with respect to the Gun Free School Zone. It has been explained to you several times with extensive citations of statute, which is further suppported by the DOJ FAQ, and once again you insisted on what you must know are incorrect responses to clear questions.

    A smart person, should not play such a stupid game.

    Shame.
    I am not playing games. I am trying to MAKE SURE that the GFSZ aka the 1000ft rule ONLY APPLIES TO OC WITHOUT A PERMIT and not to those WHO HAVE A CCL. If you have a CCL YOU MAY OC OR CC WITHIN THE GFGSZs BUT NOT ON SCHOOL PROPERTY. That is what my CCL insatructor wrote back. It is imperative that I understand that or else I will find myself behind bars and since this is blog consists of opinions and not to be used as a tool to interpret law. And since my property is not within the GFSZ I don't have to worry about the rest of the law pertaining to the matter.

  20. #20
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    I am not playing games. I am trying to MAKE SURE that the GFSZ aka the 1000ft rule ONLY APPLIES TO OC WITHOUT A PERMIT and not to those WHO HAVE A CCL. If you have a CCL YOU MAY OC OR CC WITHIN THE GFGSZs BUT NOT ON SCHOOL PROPERTY. That is what my CCL insatructor wrote back. It is imperative that I understand that or else I will find myself behind bars and since this is blog consists of opinions and not to be used as a tool to interpret law. And since my property is not within the GFSZ I don't have to worry about the rest of the law pertaining to the matter.

    Huh? Any private property, not just YOUR private property, you can OC within the 1000' buffer without a CCL. So, if you are at a mall next to a school, you can OC up to the property line, 1 inch from the school property. If you are at a friends house whose backyard is adjacent to a school, you can OC in his yard, if you walk down the street across from a school and stay on the other side of the sidewalk so that you are walking in people's front yards, you may OC (might get charged with trespassing, but not a GFSZ violation).

    If you aren't going to take our advice, why are you here asking questions? Is your instructor a lawyer? If not, why are you taking his advice? The only legal advice is from a lawyer that you have a client relationship with.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ellsworth Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,213
    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Huh? Any private property, not just YOUR private property, you can OC within the 1000' buffer without a CCL. So, if you are at a mall next to a school, you can OC up to the property line, 1 inch from the school property. If you are at a friends house whose backyard is adjacent to a school, you can OC in his yard, if you walk down the street across from a school and stay on the other side of the sidewalk so that you are walking in people's front yards, you may OC (might get charged with trespassing, but not a GFSZ violation).

    If you aren't going to take our advice, why are you here asking questions? Is your instructor a lawyer? If not, why are you taking his advice? The only legal advice is from a lawyer that you have a client relationship with.
    Yes I'll be talking to a lawyer eventually on this issue. The reason I keep repeating the issue is that enough people will reply saying the same thing and that will settle my mind a bit because I am afraid that there are leos who will do whatever they will to arrest me. In other words even though we have our rights to OC with or without a permit and CC with a permit, I am not sure it will be respected by local leos. Look what happened to MKEgal or what the MPD are doing?

  22. #22
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Yes I'll be talking to a lawyer eventually on this issue. The reason I keep repeating the issue is that enough people will reply saying the same thing and that will settle my mind a bit because I am afraid that there are leos who will do whatever they will to arrest me. In other words even though we have our rights to OC with or without a permit and CC with a permit, I am not sure it will be respected by local leos. Look what happened to MKEgal or what the MPD are doing?
    Well, yeah!

    A good cop having a bad day with you doing EVERYTHING right might get you shot and/or arrested. That can happen even if you don't carry.

    I can guarantee you that I really don't plan on getting hassled by the cops but sometimes it happens. We were just having dinner at Culvers in Madison and got hassled. We broke no laws. Brad Krause was planting a tree in his front yard and got arrested. Unfortunately, everyone is a human and we can't guarantee a good outcome. All we can do is be prepared.
    Last edited by paul@paul-fisher.com; 04-24-2012 at 12:15 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider
    WITH a WI CCL, you can open carry or conceal carry a state-defined weapon within 1000' of a grades 1-12 school.
    WithOUT a WI CCL, you cannot open carry or conceal carry a state-defined weapon within 1000' of a grades 1-12 school.
    Quote Originally Posted by Auric
    If you have a CC license, you can open carry or conceal carry in the GFSZ. [EXCEPT on the property of the school!]
    If you have no license, you can open carry on private property within a 1000' of school ground.
    Or if you're on your own property or other land or buildings that you legally reside or occupy (e.g. land, your residence, your place of business) then you can conceal without a license if you choose.
    Added that clarification, but basically Auric's answer is the most concise & correct that's been presented so far.

    Federal law doesn't distinguish between the school property & the public property that's within 1000' of the edge of that school property.
    Wisconsin law does.
    Wisconsin only allows licensees, on-duty LEO, & criminals to be within 1000' on public property,
    and only on-duty LEO & criminals on the school grounds. (With the few other exceptions borrowed from Federal law, but how likely do you think it is one of those will be granted?)
    In other states (UT being an example) if you have a license issued by the state you can walk into a school armed & it's perfectly legal.

  24. #24
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider
    The reason I keep repeating the issue is that enough people will reply saying the same thing and that will settle my mind a bit
    You could also read the laws.
    Links have been posted above, both to the WI law & the federal code (which is linked from the WI law).
    Start with 948.605 (2): Possession of firearm in school zone.
    That has a link to 18 USC 922 & lists the exact bits which WI wants to apply to us.

    I am afraid that there are leos who will do whatever they will to arrest me.
    There still are, yes. But I think that thanks to some high-profile cases where WCI kicked butt & took names most LEO will follow the law.
    Most do anyway, but there are too many who don't & way too many who stand by & don't stop their co-workers from comitting crimes.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ellsworth Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,213
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    You could also read the laws.
    Links have been posted above, both to the WI law & the federal code (which is linked from the WI law).
    Start with 948.605 (2): Possession of firearm in school zone.
    That has a link to 18 USC 922 & lists the exact bits which WI wants to apply to us.


    There still are, yes. But I think that thanks to some high-profile cases where WCI kicked butt & took names most LEO will follow the law.
    Most do anyway, but there are too many who don't & way too many who stand by & don't stop their co-workers from comitting crimes.
    Thanks MKEgal I'll start with all the links above and yours. Paul and others I don't mean to go in circles. For some reason in my mind the GFSZ issue is fogged up. As with all of you you are confident in different things and you are all confident in the CCL laws. I am not yet but I am going to be. Thanks for all for their input. First I am going to join WI carry. I promised Nick. Then to read ALL the statutes. Hope I can meet many of you in person in the future!

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •