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Thread: vehicle carry

  1. #1
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    vehicle carry

    i know there are posts here on this, but i just looked through 15 pages of topics and the *%#@ search tool searches the ENTIRE states...

    anyway i was looking for any state laws concerning open/conceal carry in your vehicle; a side note i am not looking for justification of defense

    anyone able to help me out?
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    In MO, if you're 21+, you can carry a pistol in any condition (loaded/unloaded/locked up/in your lap), with or without a CCW. MO Castle Doctrine applies to your house and vehicle(s).

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    I see...I was under the impression Castle Doctrine is just if you have to use deadly force.
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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylemoul View Post
    i know there are posts here on this, but i just looked through 15 pages of topics and the *%#@ search tool searches the ENTIRE states...

    anyway i was looking for any state laws concerning open/conceal carry in your vehicle; a side note i am not looking for justification of defense

    anyone able to help me out?
    My understanding, some one will correct me if I'm wrong. Anyone with or without a CCW maay carry a concealed hand gun in their vehicle. The key wrod there is "concealed". If you have a CCW or you are some place where a CCW is "not" required you can have the hand gun in sight (ie, many STL area municiplalities that prohibit open carry) The good olde boy days of a firearm on a gun rack of a pick up truck are a no no around these here parts. Out in RFD, or for that matter just westof STL Co., in Franklin or St. Charles Co., no one really cares! Which is the way it should be.
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    Regular Member Tony4310's Avatar
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    I have my CCW, but I never keep mine holstered when in the car for easy access if needbe. I simply keep a small sheet over it on the seat next to me so it is easy to get too, but still concealed!

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    Actually, since we're getting hyper specific ;-), you aren't quite right. The law requires that the weapon be in question be lawfully possessed and concealable, not concealed. Of course, the section of law it exempts you from is the code that make it illegal to conceal a weapon. So I guess the end effect is the same;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    My understanding, some one will correct me if I'm wrong. Anyone with or without a CCW maay carry a concealed hand gun in their vehicle. The key wrod there is "concealed". If you have a CCW or you are some place where a CCW is "not" required you can have the hand gun in sight (ie, many STL area municiplalities that prohibit open carry) The good olde boy days of a firearm on a gun rack of a pick up truck are a no no around these here parts. Out in RFD, or for that matter just westof STL Co., in Franklin or St. Charles Co., no one really cares! Which is the way it should be.

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    You can ccw in your vehicle without a ccw permit because the vehicle is considered a dwelling correct?

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    You can carry a concealed weapon in the car in Missouri because there is a special exemption for it. No convoluted explanations are needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kellogg2185 View Post
    In MO, if you're 21+, you can carry a pistol in any condition (loaded/unloaded/locked up/in your lap), with or without a CCW. MO Castle Doctrine applies to your house and vehicle(s).
    Not that this would apply to me (I'm older than 21 and don't plan to visit MO anytime soon), but can a person age 18-20 OPENLY carry in a vehicle?
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    There is a part of the law that allows 18 year old to carry in a vehicle while traveling. I believe it has something to do with safe passage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock View Post
    Not that this would apply to me (I'm older than 21 and don't plan to visit MO anytime soon), but can a person age 18-20 OPENLY carry in a vehicle?

    Here is the statute (subsection #3) for carrying in your car.
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    Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.

    571.030

    1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or....

    3. Subdivisions....Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, ....or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state....

    4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000030.HTM
    Read the statute.
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    OC is not illegal in MO....BUT!!!....it is illegal in sumo political subdivisions.

    Firearms legislation preemption by general assembly, exceptions--limitation on civil recovery against firearms or ammunitions manufacturers, when, exception.

    21.750.

    3. Nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, with appropriate penalty provisions, or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use....

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c000-099/0210000750.htm
    Read the statutes.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    OC is not illegal in MO....BUT!!!....it is illegal in sumo political subdivisions.

    Read the statutes.
    Sumo....really? 'some'.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Sumo....really? 'some'.

    I was wondering????
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  16. #16
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    So was I....
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  17. #17
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    concealed
    Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed,

    open
    nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state.


    seems i didnt read 571.030 enough. concealed is ok aslong as you lawfully posess it.

    now openly, i dont think MO defines your vehicle as a dwelling per castle doctrine

    (2) "Dwelling"[ means], any building[ or], inhabitable structure,[ though movable or temporary, or a portion thereof, which is for the time being the actor's home or place of lodging.] or conveyance of any kind, whether the building, inhabitable structure, or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night;

    but you do have the right to not retreat your vehicle per castle doctrine;
    A person does not have a duty to retreat from a dwelling, residence, or vehicle where the person is not unlawfully entering or unlawfully remaining.

    or is it the "traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state" that allows open carry in the vehicle?


    any input/corrections?
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    Kyle,

    Could you elaborate on your "retreat your vehicle" please? It's a bit confusing as to what you're after and most would rather give you the info as opposed to taking a guess.

    Your posting of the duty to retreat (or lack there of in certain situations) from State law is spot on.

    If you need it before your trip, here is the link to the Missouri statutes "search" engine.

    RSMO Search http://www.moga.mo.gov/homestatsearch.asp

    Rule of thumb for the RSMO search is to always return to the main page before starting another search. It seems that you will increase the search within the current criteria if you alter the search once results are up. So get back to the main page before starting a new search or altering your search criteria.

    Missouri has needed to remove any and all expectations to retreat for some time now. The statute already requires that the situation be not of your own making and that it be an emergency situation requiring immediate action. That alone illustrates that distance and time will be relative to a possibility of even considering a retreat.
    Last edited by REALteach4u; 04-24-2012 at 01:13 PM.

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    The portion of the castle doctrine which states you do not have the duty to retreat from your vehicle, dwelling, or residence.

    however i may be looking into things a bit deep, so no problem.

    basically open carry in your vehicle you still must abide by city/municipality laws and thier open carry ordinances.
    Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

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    The law states in the "passenger compartment", so I'm assuming this means not on your person?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hazardous0388 View Post
    The law states in the "passenger compartment", so I'm assuming this means not on your person?
    The exemption that is being refereed to is exempting a person from the crime of 'carrying a concealed weapon on or about his or her person'. So the exemption applies if you may lawfully posses the firearm and:
    1)the person possessing the firearm is 21 years old or older.
    2)the firearm is 'concealable' (barrel less than 16") and is concealed.
    3)the firearm remains in the vehicle.

    If the carrier also holds a concealed carry permit from any state or political subdivision, then the age of the carrier, the class of the firearm, and leaving it in the vehicle is irrelevant. It doesn't have to be 'concealable' to be concealed in the vehicle, the carrier could be less than 21 years of age, and you may carry it concealed outside the vehicle on your person.

    Since the exemption is for carrying 'on OR about' the person, you could carry it on your person without the permit. So long as you remained in the vehicle. (follow the 3 criteria listed above).
    Last edited by Shooter64738; 04-27-2012 at 05:13 PM.

  22. #22
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    Vehicle carry in the state of MO used to be open only, meaning you had to have the firearm in plain sight visible from more than one angle.

    An openly carried firearm on a persons hip would NOT meet that criteria since the simply coverage from the door and your person would make it pretty much impossible to see from any side other than the side the firearm was on, for example you are right handed, an officer approaching from the rear might well not be able to see your firearm at all during an entire traffic stop. The firearm would only be seen from the passengers side front window and this would be considered concealed. This is also the reason for gun racks in pick up trucks rear window, behind the seat illegal, in the rack legal.

    When concealed carry was passed in MO attention was paid to vehicle carry since specific laws existed surrounding vehicle carry already. The law was drafted in such a manner so that anyone who could legally be in possession of the firearm could have it concealed in the vehicle with or without a permit.

    It has nothing o do with castle law and existed since 2004 long before MO even began considering castle law. It had everything to do with being thorough in MO's concealed weapons law and was drafted from the good and bad of other states laws aka we learned from others mistakes.
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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Vehicle carry in the state of MO used to be open only, meaning you had to have the firearm in plain sight visible from more than one angle.

    An openly carried firearm on a persons hip would NOT meet that criteria since the simply coverage from the door and your person would make it pretty much impossible to see from any side other than the side the firearm was on, for example you are right handed, an officer approaching from the rear might well not be able to see your firearm at all during an entire traffic stop. The firearm would only be seen from the passengers side front window and this would be considered concealed. This is also the reason for gun racks in pick up trucks rear window, behind the seat illegal, in the rack legal.

    When concealed carry was passed in MO attention was paid to vehicle carry since specific laws existed surrounding vehicle carry already. The law was drafted in such a manner so that anyone who could legally be in possession of the firearm could have it concealed in the vehicle with or without a permit.

    It has nothing o do with castle law and existed since 2004 long before MO even began considering castle law. It had everything to do with being thorough in MO's concealed weapons law and was drafted from the good and bad of other states laws aka we learned from others mistakes.
    Absolutely. Our "Castle Doctrine" has absolutely, positively NOTHING to do with where you may or may not carry a firearm, or in what manner. Anyone still trying to claim or teach some kind of justification for carrying a firearm in a vehicle (or anywhere else) under our "Castle Doctrine" is entirely misguided and doing a disservice to themselves and/or their students.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    Absolutely. Our "Castle Doctrine" has absolutely, positively NOTHING to do with where you may or may not carry a firearm, or in what manner. Anyone still trying to claim or teach some kind of justification for carrying a firearm in a vehicle (or anywhere else) under our "Castle Doctrine" is entirely misguided and doing a disservice to themselves and/or their students.
    nobody be misguided...i only referred to the castle doctrine in this topic so noone would think that applies in my original question. castle doctrine allows for use of force in your vehicle (and other dwellings and such....) and yes it has nothing to do with open/concealed carrying of a firearm.

    wanted to be clear on my post not trying to mislead people.
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  25. #25
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylemoul View Post
    nobody be misguided...i only referred to the castle doctrine in this topic so noone would think that applies in my original question. castle doctrine allows for use of force in your vehicle (and other dwellings and such....) and yes it has nothing to do with open/concealed carrying of a firearm.

    wanted to be clear on my post not trying to mislead people.
    My post wasn't directed at you, just to be clear. Unfortunately, I am still hearing people say, "your vehicle is an extension of your home under the 'castle doctrine', therefore, you can lawfully carry a firearm in your vehicle under the 'castle doctrine'" - and what's worse is that many of these folks claim to have heard this from their instructor (presumably in a MO CCW class). It's a misguided line of thought at best, and potentially dangerous at worst.

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