vehicle carry

Shooter64738 · Apr 27, 2012

hazardous0388 said:
The law states in the "passenger compartment", so I'm assuming this means not on your person?

The exemption that is being refereed to is exempting a person from the crime of 'carrying a concealed weapon on or about his or her person'. So the exemption applies if you may lawfully posses the firearm and:
1)the person possessing the firearm is 21 years old or older.
2)the firearm is 'concealable' (barrel less than 16") and is concealed.
3)the firearm remains in the vehicle.

If the carrier also holds a concealed carry permit from any state or political subdivision, then the age of the carrier, the class of the firearm, and leaving it in the vehicle is irrelevant. It doesn't have to be 'concealable' to be concealed in the vehicle, the carrier could be less than 21 years of age, and you may carry it concealed outside the vehicle on your person.

Since the exemption is for carrying 'on OR about' the person, you could carry it on your person without the permit. So long as you remained in the vehicle. (follow the 3 criteria listed above).

LMTD · Apr 28, 2012

Vehicle carry in the state of MO used to be open only, meaning you had to have the firearm in plain sight visible from more than one angle.

An openly carried firearm on a persons hip would NOT meet that criteria since the simply coverage from the door and your person would make it pretty much impossible to see from any side other than the side the firearm was on, for example you are right handed, an officer approaching from the rear might well not be able to see your firearm at all during an entire traffic stop. The firearm would only be seen from the passengers side front window and this would be considered concealed. This is also the reason for gun racks in pick up trucks rear window, behind the seat illegal, in the rack legal.

When concealed carry was passed in MO attention was paid to vehicle carry since specific laws existed surrounding vehicle carry already. The law was drafted in such a manner so that anyone who could legally be in possession of the firearm could have it concealed in the vehicle with or without a permit.

It has nothing o do with castle law and existed since 2004 long before MO even began considering castle law. It had everything to do with being thorough in MO's concealed weapons law and was drafted from the good and bad of other states laws aka we learned from others mistakes.

cshoff · May 1, 2012

LMTD said:
Vehicle carry in the state of MO used to be open only, meaning you had to have the firearm in plain sight visible from more than one angle.

An openly carried firearm on a persons hip would NOT meet that criteria since the simply coverage from the door and your person would make it pretty much impossible to see from any side other than the side the firearm was on, for example you are right handed, an officer approaching from the rear might well not be able to see your firearm at all during an entire traffic stop. The firearm would only be seen from the passengers side front window and this would be considered concealed. This is also the reason for gun racks in pick up trucks rear window, behind the seat illegal, in the rack legal.

When concealed carry was passed in MO attention was paid to vehicle carry since specific laws existed surrounding vehicle carry already. The law was drafted in such a manner so that anyone who could legally be in possession of the firearm could have it concealed in the vehicle with or without a permit.

It has nothing o do with castle law and existed since 2004 long before MO even began considering castle law. It had everything to do with being thorough in MO's concealed weapons law and was drafted from the good and bad of other states laws aka we learned from others mistakes.

Absolutely. Our "Castle Doctrine" has absolutely, positively NOTHING to do with where you may or may not carry a firearm, or in what manner. Anyone still trying to claim or teach some kind of justification for carrying a firearm in a vehicle (or anywhere else) under our "Castle Doctrine" is entirely misguided and doing a disservice to themselves and/or their students.

kylemoul · May 1, 2012

cshoff said:
Absolutely. Our "Castle Doctrine" has absolutely, positively NOTHING to do with where you may or may not carry a firearm, or in what manner. Anyone still trying to claim or teach some kind of justification for carrying a firearm in a vehicle (or anywhere else) under our "Castle Doctrine" is entirely misguided and doing a disservice to themselves and/or their students.

nobody be misguided...i only referred to the castle doctrine in this topic so noone would think that applies in my original question. castle doctrine allows for use of force in your vehicle (and other dwellings and such....) and yes it has nothing to do with open/concealed carrying of a firearm.

wanted to be clear on my post not trying to mislead people.

cshoff · May 1, 2012

kylemoul said:
nobody be misguided...i only referred to the castle doctrine in this topic so noone would think that applies in my original question. castle doctrine allows for use of force in your vehicle (and other dwellings and such....) and yes it has nothing to do with open/concealed carrying of a firearm.

wanted to be clear on my post not trying to mislead people.

My post wasn't directed at you, just to be clear. Unfortunately, I am still hearing people say, "your vehicle is an extension of your home under the 'castle doctrine', therefore, you can lawfully carry a firearm in your vehicle under the 'castle doctrine'" - and what's worse is that many of these folks claim to have heard this from their instructor (presumably in a MO CCW class). It's a misguided line of thought at best, and potentially dangerous at worst.

kylemoul · May 1, 2012

cshoff said:
My post wasn't directed at you, just to be clear. Unfortunately, I am still hearing people say, "your vehicle is an extension of your home under the 'castle doctrine', therefore, you can lawfully carry a firearm in your vehicle under the 'castle doctrine'" - and what's worse is that many of these folks claim to have heard this from their instructor (presumably in a MO CCW class). It's a misguided line of thought at best, and potentially dangerous at worst.

bad to hear from an instructor.

OC for ME · May 2, 2012

RSMo 563.031 - 'Castle Doctrine'

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5630000031.HTM

No mention of any type of weapon. Stop with the "castle doctrine lets me do this or that with my pistola" claptrap.

RSMo 571.030 'tells' you what is unlawful where 'weapons' are concerned.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000030.HTM

Redbaron007 · May 2, 2012

cshoff said:
My post wasn't directed at you, just to be clear. Unfortunately, I am still hearing people say, "your vehicle is an extension of your home under the 'castle doctrine', therefore, you can lawfully carry a firearm in your vehicle under the 'castle doctrine'" - and what's worse is that many of these folks claim to have heard this from their instructor (presumably in a MO CCW class). It's a misguided line of thought at best, and potentially dangerous at worst.

Funny you mention this; I just had a conversation this past weekend about this topic; they swore their instructor told them this. I've requested them to contact their instructor to confirm this; if true, I've asked them to give me their intsructor's name and number so maybe I could understand their train of thought.

JiKeidan · Mar 3, 2013

Tha's what I was lookin'fer

Redbaron007 said:
Here is the statute (subsection #3) for carrying in your car.

=D thx bunches man.

peterarthur · Mar 4, 2013

OK, some of the information here leads me to believe that I could be breaking the law if I get into my car while open carrying without first unholstering the weapon, which some might consider brandishing. Where is the common sense. Can I conceal in my car without a license?? Then my "concealed" open carry would be legal. Is it concealed or not?? It cannot be both, that is silly. You are either openly carrying or concealing. I suspect the correct answer is not in this thread

Shooter64738 · Mar 4, 2013

peterarthur said:
OK, some of the information here leads me to believe that I could be breaking the law if I get into my car while open carrying without first unholstering the weapon, which some might consider brandishing.

Brandishing is the display of your firearm in an angry or threatening manner WITHOUT justification to use the threat of lethal force. It is not 'walking about with your holstered handgun'.

peterarthur said:
Where is the common sense. Can I conceal in my car without a license??

If you are 21 or older you may carry a concealable firearm (barrel less than 16 inches in length) without a permit, so long as the firearm remains in the vehicle. It may be concealed, or it may not be. You get to decide. Be aware that jurisdictions that restrict open carry will also cite you if your firearm is openly displayed in your vehicle.

peterarthur said:
Then my "concealed" open carry would be legal. Is it concealed or not?? It cannot be both, that is silly. You are either openly carrying or concealing. I suspect the correct answer is not in this thread

It doesn't matter so long as the firearm remains in the vehicle.
Open carry it in a hip holster.
Conceal it in a holster on your hip.
Put it in the glove compartment.
If you are over the age of 21 and the firearm has a barrel less than 16 inches in length, do with it as you prefer. Keep in mind the open carry restrictions some jurisdictions place on open display of firearms.

OC for ME · Mar 4, 2013

3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible.

Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 [CCW unlawful w/o a endorsement] of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older or eighteen years of age or older and a member of the United States Armed Forces, or honorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces,

.....transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed,

.....nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, [OC while lawfully hunting]

.....or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, [Private property]

.....or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state. [Vehicle type is not made known.....heck, it does not even stipulate vehicle. You could be walking or riding a mule, if you are on a peacable journey through this state.]

Redbaron007 · Mar 4, 2013

WOW.... ironically.....this thread comes to life after a conversation this weekend.

My 20 year daughter wants to take one of my pistols to the firing range; is she prohibited from carrying the firearm in the vehicle, unloaded and secured, to the firing range?

Any help?

kcgunfan · Mar 4, 2013

There are several ways to carry legally in MO, you have peaceable journey, which would not qualify here, because I assume you are not leaving the state. You have the over 21 and concealable, which would not apply because she's 20. Finally you have the unloaded and not readily accessible or non functioning case, which would apply if she does one of two of these things.

Edit: Stupid Swype...

Redbaron007 said:
WOW.... ironically.....this thread comes to life after a conversation this weekend.

My 20 year daughter wants to take one of my pistols to the firing range; is she prohibited from carrying the firearm in the vehicle, unloaded and secured, to the firing range?

Any help?

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

OC for ME · Mar 4, 2013

Redbaron007 said:
WOW.... ironically.....this thread comes to life after a conversation this weekend.

My 20 year daughter wants to take one of my pistols to the firing range; is she prohibited from carrying the firearm in the vehicle, unloaded and secured, to the firing range?

Any help?

No. She is not prohibited as long as she meets the requirement set forth below.

3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible.

If her vehicle has a trunk, like most cars, and the firearm is placed in the trunk, she would meet the letter of the law for a loaded firearm not being readily accessible. If it is a SUV, placing the unloaded firearm way in the back shows intent to comply with the law because it would not be readily available to her as the operator of the motor vehicle.

Or, you could go with her, offer to drive, buy lunch, and do some father daughter bonding at the range.

Redbaron007 · Mar 4, 2013

OC for ME said:
No. She is not prohibited as long as she meets the requirement set forth below.

If her vehicle has a trunk, like most cars, and the firearm is placed in the trunk, she would meet the letter of the law for a loaded firearm not being readily accessible. If it is a SUV, placing the unloaded firearm way in the back shows intent to comply with the law because it would not be readily available to her as the operator of the motor vehicle.

Or, you could go with her, offer to drive, buy lunch, and do some father daughter bonding at the range.

Thanks OC!

We did that Friday night...I bought dinner after a round at BPS firing range; that is what prompted the conversation. I purchased a Sig Mosiquito and we put 200 rounds through it. Should have cleaned prior to shooting, but my daughter was very excited to go shooting, so we went. Didn't have any real issues, a couple of failed to feed, not sure if it was the ammo, we were shooting Aquilla Interceptor 22 ammo and some Winchester bulk practice rounds. The Aquilla seemed to work just fine, the Winchester would occasionally not feed; no stovepipes, just wouldn't put one in the chamber.

Good time had by all!!

OC for ME · Mar 4, 2013

It would be nice to lower the CCW age requirement down to 18 years of age. Cuz we all know that women do not need to defend themselves until they reach the age of 21.

Redbaron007 · Mar 4, 2013

OC for ME said:
It would be nice to lower the CCW age requirement down to 18 years of age. Cuz we all know that women do not need to defend themselves until they reach the age of 21.

What???.....did you speak to my daughter? She basically said the same thing.

kylemoul · Mar 4, 2013

OC for ME said:
It would be nice to lower the CCW age requirement down to 18 years of age. Cuz we all know that women do not need to defend themselves until they reach the age of 21.

all you need is a double-barreled shotgun

i have this argument with my dad. he is 100% convinced you can open carry in your car wherever you go. he always uses the castle doctrine line. try to tell him that is about justifying deadly force not about how you can carry your firearm. state law clearly says between concealable and openly.

i try to tell people think of it like how the city can ticket you for having grass too tall. it is a city ordinance.

OC for ME · Mar 5, 2013

Redbaron007 said:
What???.....did you speak to my daughter? She basically said the same thing.

Got yerself a smart girl there.....obviously.

vehicle carry

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