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Thread: Would you draw on this guy?

  1. #1
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Would you draw on this guy?

    If you were on the bus would you draw on this guy or like others just go toe to toe?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uln9...&feature=share
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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    There was plenty of help on that bus to take care of the threat. I didn't see any reason to do so in that situation. If I was alone, one on one, good chance.

  3. #3
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    No way. There are too many people too close to eachother. Even if I was all the way at the front and had a clear shot I would likely be jostled by all the other people. I would be responsible for any stray rounds. In that situation the passengers did the right thing. Now if the bus were empty that may be different. There is no way of knowing what you'll do until you are in a situation.
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    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
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    What is always amazing is how many sheep just stood there and didn't react to help in any way...that someone at the back of the bus could make it to the front before others start reacting? Ridiculous society...

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    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdholmes View Post
    What is always amazing is how many sheep just stood there and didn't react to help in any way...that someone at the back of the bus could make it to the front before others start reacting? Ridiculous society...
    It's not society. This is a known psychological phenomenon and it's not going away. It's always been the case.

    Google Bystander Effect


    People experience shock, then assume someone else will do something and then when someone finally does others start to jump in. Herd behavior.

    This phenomenon is why in emergencies the person responding has to point to people and get their attention when yelling commands like "call 911." You can't just say it because people will assume another person will do it.

    Very few people actually act during emergencies. No one knows what they'll do until they are in the situation. Some act instinctively, some freeze, some run away.
    Last edited by Stanley; 04-21-2012 at 02:45 AM.
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    I would definitely do something, but what would be situation dependent. If I was the only one there to help and there was no chance of collateral damage, you bet your cookies I'd draw. Someone that big is a deadly threat, even with just punches.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Twice he communicated his intent to kill her. That pretty much covers the "imminent threat of death" part.

    Where I live we have case law saying that force up to and including lethal force is permitted without needing to first retreat from anywhere one has a legal right to be. I have not read the fine-print license agreement on the back of the bus ticket to see what I have waived by boarding and paying the fare.

    Could I, personally, physically haul him off of her? No.

    Would I shoot? The answer depends on so many other factors. About the only thing I can say with any degree of certainty (and that isn't much, given this situation) is that it probably would be a contact shot.

    What makes me happy about having scenarios like this presented is that the majority of responses put the lie to the accusation that gun owners are just looking for an excuse to shoot someone.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    My only comments, this is one reason they should wait till everyone's seated before moving the dang bus. Metro... <facepalm>

    Other than that, does not look like drawing was in any way warranted in the situation. Brings up a different problem tho, if you're openly armed & decide to get physically involved, what about the likelihood of someone else (good guy OR bad guy) taking your weapon & using it while your hands are busy?
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    This is why I always carry pepper spary in addition to my firearm. I like having a non-lethal option available.

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Now that is an interesting thought and warrants some consideration. Sometimes a person carrying a gun needs to stand back and observe the situation and not jump into it right away.
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    I wouldn't shoot unless all other methods had been exhausted. If he couldn't be restrained, subdued or otherwise incapacitated, then perhaps...

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryteon View Post
    This is why I always carry pepper spary in addition to my firearm. I like having a non-lethal option available.
    I would not use a spray in a confined area.
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    I dont know if I would have shot,or stood there like the others did until someone else jumped in, I have never been in that position. I would like to think I would have been the frist one up to help. The man should have his eye's stomped out of his head, but just dont know how I would have reacted. I do hope if im ever put in that place I act exactly the way I should. I would like to go thur some shoot dont shoot training type course.
    I am not a gun nut, nor am I a nut with a gun
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    I would not use a spray in a confined area.
    There are sprays that limit exposure when properly used. Pepper spray over exposure is preferable to firearm over penetration. It's just another tool I carry for situations like this. Use your own judgement.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderTattoo View Post
    ....... Sometimes a person carrying a gun needs to stand back and observe the situation and not jump into it right away.
    This is situational awareness at its best
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryteon View Post
    There are sprays that limit exposure when properly used. Pepper spray over exposure is preferable to firearm over penetration. It's just another tool I carry for situations like this. Use your own judgement.
    Yeah, till you start gagging on it yourself...

    Pepper spray is not a great close hand solution, a tazer would be preferable to that IMO.

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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdholmes View Post
    Yeah, till you start gagging on it yourself...

    Pepper spray is not a great close hand solution, a tazer would be preferable to that IMO.
    Yah in a perfect world the taser would be good. But I don't want to wear a duty belt, so it's OC spray, a knife weakside, and my firearm.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdholmes View Post
    Yeah, till you start gagging on it yourself...

    Pepper spray is not a great close hand solution, a tazer would be preferable to that IMO.
    +1

    In that situation, you'd be likely to spray the bad guy, the victim, AND possibly the driver, which is a really bad thing in a moving vehicle.

    If not a full-fledged taser, maybe a smaller contact stun-gun that can fit in a pocklet would be wise, to avoid "batman syndrome."
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Very interesting situation you found there Mike. Taser sounds to me like the only option other than a contact shot which would leave me with penetration concerns on a crowded bus. With others in the action, I agree with standing back and not engaging unless the firearm was required.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    +1

    In that situation, you'd be likely to spray the bad guy, the victim, AND possibly the driver, which is a really bad thing in a moving vehicle.

    If not a full-fledged taser, maybe a smaller contact stun-gun that can fit in a pocklet would be wise, to avoid "batman syndrome."
    Indeed...if you are close enough for the close contact pepper spray to be used effectively on the assailant you are likely also close enough or can get close enough for the contact taser.

  21. #21
    Regular Member USMC1911's Avatar
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    No, the BG can be subdued and detained by the use of control tactics and restraint techniques.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USMC1911 View Post
    No, the BG can be subdued and detained by the use of control tactics and restraint techniques.
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    Perhaps, but how does one KNOW that before hand, going into the situation? And remember, not everyone knows control/restraint tactics.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdholmes View Post
    Indeed...if you are close enough for the close contact pepper spray to be used effectively on the assailant you are likely also close enough or can get close enough for the contact taser.
    Also, a little background on this case, since I haven't seen it mentioned yet. It came out after the fact that the assailant was mentally disabled and off his meds.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  23. #23
    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
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    And...?

  24. #24
    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
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    This would have been a good situation for the driver to have had a taser, but I think the drivers might start tasing for just yelling, spitting, etc. so probably not a great idea.



    Senator wants bus drivers armed with tasers.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...sEnabled=false
    Last edited by trevorthebusdriver; 04-21-2012 at 11:18 PM.

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    Anyone else like knives as much as firearms? A Folding Karambit such as Emerson makes. Don't necessarily have to deploy the blade, can us the ring as a a striking tool. Training in a system such as Modern Arnis would develop the blade control and accuracy to allow for less than lethal disabling cuts.

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