Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Roanoke ordinance may run afoul of state preemption statute

  1. #1
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, VA
    Posts
    1,735

    Roanoke ordinance may run afoul of state preemption statute

    The argument that the county is making seems to be that, since the state preemption statute does allow municipalities to regulate certain aspects of firearms if they are specifically granted the power, that it is acceptable to pass an ordinance that contains what appears to be a blanket ban in direct violation of current law just in case the state ever decides to grant them that power.

    Excerpt ... Read more


  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Of course the Roanoke County attorney is lying. If he weren't, then he would be able to point out the specific section of state code that authorizes the local ordinance. It defies common sense to reference the section prohibiting local ordinances as the explicit authorization to enact a local ordinance on the subject that has been explicitly prohibited by that very section.

    Such is the circular logic of gun-hating liberals. The most pathetic thing is that he probably considers it to be a rather clever solution to skirt the law.

    TFred

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    If the county fails to act in a timely manner, then the courts are open every day … and the attorney’s fees are on the house if the court agrees with my assessment that the tortured wording is unnecessary and therefore excessive.
    Especially since any wording is unnecessary and excessive--the presence of the entire passage is unnecessary. Deleting it brings it into line with state law.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  4. #4
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    John, has anyone gotten copies of the minutes when this was discussed?

    From the March 08 review, there should be minutes, memo's, emails and a detailed opinion from the county attorney. These are all subject to FOIA but because of the age, probably need to be reviewed and selected in person.
    Last edited by peter nap; 04-21-2012 at 04:58 AM.

  5. #5
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, VA
    Posts
    1,735
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Especially since any wording is unnecessary and excessive--the presence of the entire passage is unnecessary. Deleting it brings it into line with state law.
    Exactly!

  6. #6
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, VA
    Posts
    1,735
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    John, has anyone gotten copies of the minutes when this was discussed?

    From the March 08 review, there should be minutes, memo's, emails and a detailed opinion from the county attorney. These are all subject to FOIA but because of the age, probably need to be reviewed and selected in person.
    Not that I am aware of. We will have to get a request in the works.

  7. #7
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    John, has anyone gotten copies of the minutes when this was discussed?

    From the March 08 review, there should be minutes, memo's, emails and a detailed opinion from the county attorney. These are all subject to FOIA but because of the age, probably need to be reviewed and selected in person.
    Keep track of ALL EXPENSES incurred!

    From 15.2-915: "the court may award reasonable attorney fees, expenses, and court costs"



    TFred

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Keep track of ALL EXPENSES incurred!

    From 15.2-915: "the court may award reasonable attorney fees, expenses, and court costs"



    TFred
    Lord knows that law needs some real teeth TFred. The county attorney is trying to buy the pot...and it may work!

  9. #9
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, VA
    Posts
    1,735
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Keep track of ALL EXPENSES incurred!

    From 15.2-915: "the court may award reasonable attorney fees, expenses, and court costs"



    TFred
    Good point. Will do.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    70
    They might as well put an ordinance in as:

    - Placeholder for ban on firearms to be effective as soon as the state allows.

    Anyway, I sent an email to the Board of Supervisors myself.

    Dear Members of the Board of Supervisors of Roanoke County,

    I am writing you in regards to an ordinance published in the*Roanoke County's Code of Ordinances; Chapter 15 - Parks and Recreation, Section 15-8 - Prohibited uses of parks, Item #6: "Hunting and firearms."

    I am among a group of several individuals who have, for some time, been in contact with the County Attorney, as well as the Director of the Parks and Recreation Department, regarding this invalid and unenforceable ordinance that Roanoke County continues to publish in its Code.

    As you are hopefully aware, § 15.2-915 of the Code of Virginia specifically outlines the authority that is bestowed on the County with regards to legislation regarding the possession, transportation, and carrying of firearms and ammunition within its jurisdiction.

    Roanoke County is not the first locality to publish invalid ordinances in violation of § 15.2-915 and I'm certain it will not be the last. However, I hope that if the County understands that this is a violation of § 15.2-915 it will certainly make the appropriate decision to revise the County Code to become compliant.

    I am very interested in a resolution in this matter, and § 15.2-915 (C) provides for reasonable attorney fees, expenses, and court costs to be awarded in addition to any relief that the court may provide should a suit against the County be necessary and the County is subsequently found to be in violation of § 15.2-915.

    I would appreciate a response to this email where you specifically address these concerns and, if possible, an explanation from the Board as to why you believe this ordinance to be in Compliance with state law.

    Thank you very much for your consideration in this matter.

    Regards,
    Jack Doyle

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    70
    Here are the meeting minutes from two different sessions. Doesn't seem to say much. I don't have a lot of attachment storage on this forum, so I only uploaded the relevant pages.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by thaJack; 04-21-2012 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Uploaded second attachment.

  12. #12
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by thaJack View Post
    Here are the meeting minutes from two different sessions. Doesn't seem to say much. I don't have a lot of attachment storage on this forum, so I only uploaded the relevant pages.
    Thanks Jack!

    Reading the Directors remarks and the lawyer's letter

    This office had carefully considered the legislation adopted by the Virginia General Assembly, and analyzed that legislation with reference to existing County Code provisions. In March of 2008 we recommended that the Board of Supervisors consider an amendment to Section 15-8 of the Roanoke County Code to bring it in to compliance with Section 15.2-915 of the Code of Virginia. The Board accepted our recommendation and adopted Ordinance #032508-7. This amendment cured any infirmity.
    There is a memo(s) between the Director and lawyer, outlining how a hunting ordnance can be form fitted into simple carry.

    I think that's the FOIA that needs to be pushed. This jerk is gonna scream "working papers" and the Judge is going to have to decide it,,,IMO.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    70
    It doesn't seem that there was much in the Meeting Minutes. Just seems that the put it there as a bullet point and then approved it.

    I didn't read through to the end to see if there were any notes regarding discussions, etc.

    The full documents were too large for me to upload, but you can find them all here: http://www.roanokecountyva.gov/index.aspx?NID=287

  14. #14
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, VA
    Posts
    1,735
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Thanks Jack!

    Reading the Directors remarks and the lawyer's letter



    There is a memo(s) between the Director and lawyer, outlining how a hunting ordnance can be form fitted into simple carry.

    I think that's the FOIA that needs to be pushed. This jerk is gonna scream "working papers" and the Judge is going to have to decide it,,,IMO.
    I am doing a followup article and am also submitting a FOIA request even though I suspect you pegged the answer I will get.


    John

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    70
    My guess, if I were a betting man, would be that neither the County Attorney nor the Board of Supervisors is even going to acknowledge that there is a problem.

    I'll be shocked if they even reply to my email.

  16. #16
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by thaJack View Post
    My guess, if I were a betting man, would be that neither the County Attorney nor the Board of Supervisors is even going to acknowledge that there is a problem.

    I'll be shocked if they even reply to my email.
    That's one advantage of FOIA Jack. Not replying is a violation of the law.

  17. #17
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, VA
    Posts
    1,735
    My latest article is published ...

    ....

    Roanoke County’s preempted parks ordinance is prompting calls for legal action

    http://monachuslex.com/?p=649

  18. #18
    Regular Member ryan7068's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA
    Posts
    185

    BBQ time!!!

    Sounds like a great place to throw a Summer Starter OC Barbeque! Have some copies of the VA state premption laws on hand though. I wouldn't want my meal interrupted by a bothersome and uneccesary trip to the slammer.
    "Yes, I am carrying a loaded firearm. Why aren't you? "

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •