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Thread: Negative experience at Drake Landing

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    Regular Member bigl0af's Avatar
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    Negative experience at Drake Landing

    Went out to Drake Landing today to shoot clays. Walked into the office open carrying, no problem. Started shooting, and on about hole 9 the guy on the four wheeler came up to me after watching my buddies and myself shoot a while. He asked if I saw the sign saying only shotguns allowed. I said I did but took that to mean only shooting of shotguns allowed, not that open carry was prohibited. He said I was to put the gun in the cart until I was off the course.

    Sort of silly if you ask me that a shooting range would prohibit open carry, and as such I won't be returning as a customer!

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  2. #2
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigl0af View Post
    Went out to Drake Landing today to shoot clays. Walked into the office open carrying, no problem. Started shooting, and on about hole 9 the guy on the four wheeler came up to me after watching my buddies and myself shoot a while. He asked if I saw the sign saying only shotguns allowed. I said I did but took that to mean only shooting of shotguns allowed, not that open carry was prohibited. He said I was to put the gun in the cart until I was off the course.

    Sort of silly if you ask me that a shooting range would prohibit open carry, and as such I won't be returning as a customer!

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    All that for $20 / hour, too.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Yep, seems pretty stupid. Do you plan to pursue the issue at all? Send a letter to management, make a phone call, etc.?
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member 62 Caddy's Avatar
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    Really stupid, it would be like telling a golfer at a par 3 course that you can't carry Drivers on the course, they must be left in the car. Wouldn't go back, and let them know it.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I have OCed at "Hunters Pointe Sporting Clays" in Washington NC several times, and it has never been an issue...

    http://www.hunterspointesportingclays.com/
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    I sent them a nice little e-mail about the above mentioned scenario and told them I would not be spending my money there and would not be telling any other 2nd amendment loving citizens to frequent there range either.

  7. #7
    Regular Member bigl0af's Avatar
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    Yea I'm going to send a letter to management about the situation. Figured I'd give the OC community a heads up first tho

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    Here is response from the management.

    "I do own Drake Landing and do post signs on my course about handguns. Do to the fact we have had problems with people shooting firearms on the course in the past. Which can be a safety issue and I DO NOT AllOW HANDGUNS OR RIFLES on THE COURSE for safety!!! MY range guy is an ex Marine and is certified range safety officer. If he asked the gentleman to stand down I am behind him 100 percent. He didn't tell me about it but I will ask him. I hope you understand I am providing a service to the shooting community and most take into account everyone's safety. If you would like to discuss further or the person involved below is my contact info."
    Thank you,
    W. Dan Andrews
    Drake Landing llc
    919 552 9455 office
    Open Wed-Sunday

  9. #9
    Regular Member bigl0af's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashowdy View Post
    Here is response from the management.

    "I do own Drake Landing and do post signs on my course about handguns. Do to the fact we have had problems with people shooting firearms on the course in the past. Which can be a safety issue and I DO NOT AllOW HANDGUNS OR RIFLES on THE COURSE for safety!!! MY range guy is an ex Marine and is certified range safety officer. If he asked the gentleman to stand down I am behind him 100 percent. He didn't tell me about it but I will ask him. I hope you understand I am providing a service to the shooting community and most take into account everyone's safety. If you would like to discuss further or the person involved below is my contact info."
    Thank you,
    W. Dan Andrews
    Drake Landing llc
    919 552 9455 office
    Open Wed-Sunday
    Wow you got a response before I did?! How you manage to do that?! Lol

    Here's what I wrote:

    " On Saturday, 21-April, a few friends and myself went to go shoot clays at your range as part of my bachelor party festivities. I've been to you're range before to shoot clays, and always had a great time. This time was different.

    Before I describe what happened, I should tell you that I exercise my second amendment right to the fullest, and always openly carry a means of self defense - usually a Ruger P89 9mm pistol. Unless expressly prohibited by law, 99% of the time when I visit an establishment I'm armed. Being that you own a gun range I'm sure you understand.

    So, I walk into the office, pistol on my hip of course, and sign up to shoot clays - no problem. We head out onto the range and at hole nine a worker on a 4 wheeler rides up, pulls me aside, and says that I have to take the pistol off. Of course, he insists he's doing me a favor because any other worker would've kicked me out. At this point I'm thinking to myself "that won't be necessary because we'll be leaving soon and I won't be coming back." He asked if I saw the signs saying no pistols allowed and I did but took it to mean no shooting pistols on the shotgun course - sometimes you do have to state the obvious.

    I have to say I never expected my first negative open carry experience would have happened at a gun range. You have a great facility, and I'd love to go again, but not if it means removing my primary means of self defense!

    I reported the incident at www.opencarry.org, and the response from local 2A advocates has been "wow we won't be going there to shoot!" Hopefully I can modify my original post to state your policy of disarmament had changed at some point in the not too distant future."

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  10. #10
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Do to the fact we have had problems with people shooting firearms on the course in the past.
    That would be "due to". And it's a firearms playground. WTH do you think people are going to do, use bow & arrow? (Or is he trying to say that a shotgun is not a firearm? Which would be wrong.)

    MY range guy is an ex Marine and is certified range safety officer.
    Big deal. I'm an RSO too.
    But I have the sense god gave a kumquat so I understand that a pistol in a holster isn't a threat.

    I hope you understand I am providing a service to the shooting community and most take into account everyone's safety.
    That would be "must".
    And if he's so concerned about safety, why would he want people to handle their pistols, let them bounce around in the cart (I'm guessing a golf cart, maybe a hand-pulled cart, but in any case it's less secure than a holster), or maybe even be left in a car? Do they have a guard watching the parking lot so a pistol left in a car isn't stolen?

    If it's in a holster, it's not going to go bang.
    If it's being handled, it could go bang.
    If it's bouncing around in a cart, it could go bang.

    And how do they monitor/control people carrying concealed?
    Did they frisk everyone to catch concealed pistols? Run them through a metal detector?
    Or are those not a problem?
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    Yea I figured I would not get a response until a couple of days but I got one in less than an hour.

  12. #12
    Regular Member bigl0af's Avatar
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    To make things worse, one guy I went out there with was from out of state and I had told him how I'd never had any issues OC. Never in a million years would I have thought I would've had an issue at the shooting range!

    Additionally, if they are all anti gun, fine. They just need to put those signs on the front door, not on a plywood billboard out in the woods you don't see until you've already started shooting!

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  13. #13
    Regular Member bigl0af's Avatar
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    " David, I understand your postion, However, you must understand my postion on this issue. I posted the NO HANDGUN signs 4 to be extact on my sporting clays course about a year and half ago. Do to problems I was having with people carring and shooting pistols and rifles on the sporting clays course, and possible endangering others. I do apprectiate your business as I appreciate every customer that comes here to experience my operation. But while you are here your safety is my main concern!!!! I have range safey officers to enforce the rules. They are doing there job and I commend them for that. I hope my range guy was polite, honest, and answered any questions you had. That is what I have him here for and truely hope you had a SAFE and happy experience. If you would like to discuss further please come by the office or call me. Thank you and Safe shooting, W. Dan Andrews Drake Landing LLC. 919-552-9455 office"

    Response...

    " The guy was polite. However an unsecure firearm bouncing around in a cart is not safe. Securely in my holster it is safe.

    My big thing is first, the signs should be on the front door of the office where I could have seen it, not out in the middle of the woods where you won't see it until you start shooting. Second, the language needs to be more clear. I look for signs like those you have in the woods and it still didn't strike me to disarm because, frankly, the notion that a gun range would prohibit certain guns is silly, leaving me saying to myself "to be sure that means no shooting pistols on the shotgun range, but possession is allowed." Add language like "possession of pistols on shotgun course prohibited, including concealed and open carry" because I was dumbfounded when I saw the current signage.

    I don't understand where you're coming from and I don't have to - it's your property and I either respect your wishes or don't go. That being said, I don't frequent places where I can't make myself safe, and I report those places to the 2A community's "friend or foe" list on opencarry.org. If open carry is allowed, "friend", if not, "foe".

    Perhaps you could be persuaded to allow possession of securely holstered pistols (concealed or open) while shooting clays?"

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  14. #14
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    here is the letter i have sent them


    Dear Mr. Andrews
    I was going to be in your area within a couple of weeks. I do enjoy going to local gun ranges to shoot. Fortununely, I am also on OPENCARRY.ORG, and I saw where you are anti-defense.
    As a gun advocate, and a firearms carrier, i will never go to a place that is anti freedom and anti self protection. I do post on several sites and I am very involved with pro gun groups. I will suggest that your range to be avoided until you change your policies.
    Also i would like for you to post on your web page that you are Anti freedom. that would end a lot of confusion for others whom would like to avoid you

    don't know if it will do any good. but at least they will know
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigl0af View Post
    " David, I understand your postion, However, you must understand my postion on this issue. I posted the NO HANDGUN signs 4 to be extact on my sporting clays course about a year and half ago. Do to problems I was having with people carring and shooting pistols and rifles on the sporting clays course, and possible endangering others. I do apprectiate your business as I appreciate every customer that comes here to experience my operation. But while you are here your safety is my main concern!!!! I have range safey officers to enforce the rules. They are doing there job and I commend them for that. I hope my range guy was polite, honest, and answered any questions you had. That is what I have him here for and truely hope you had a SAFE and happy experience. If you would like to discuss further please come by the office or call me. Thank you and Safe shooting, W. Dan Andrews Drake Landing LLC. 919-552-9455 office"

    Response...

    " The guy was polite. However an unsecure firearm bouncing around in a cart is not safe. Securely in my holster it is safe.

    My big thing is first, the signs should be on the front door of the office where I could have seen it, not out in the middle of the woods where you won't see it until you start shooting. Second, the language needs to be more clear. I look for signs like those you have in the woods and it still didn't strike me to disarm because, frankly, the notion that a gun range would prohibit certain guns is silly, leaving me saying to myself "to be sure that means no shooting pistols on the shotgun range, but possession is allowed." Add language like "possession of pistols on shotgun course prohibited, including concealed and open carry" because I was dumbfounded when I saw the current signage.

    I don't understand where you're coming from and I don't have to - it's your property and I either respect your wishes or don't go. That being said, I don't frequent places where I can't make myself safe, and I report those places to the 2A community's "friend or foe" list on opencarry.org. If open carry is allowed, "friend", if not, "foe".

    Perhaps you could be persuaded to allow possession of securely holstered pistols (concealed or open) while shooting clays?"

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    I can understand why they dont allow handguns or rifles.If it was ok then I can tell you some knucklehead cc or Oc would be out there,nobody around and say, well nobody here,lets pop off some rounds. Yea it would happen,maybe not us but some jack hole would do it.

  16. #16
    Regular Member bigl0af's Avatar
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    Well it is what it is...this place gets rated "foe" on friendorfoe.us.

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    Not saying I am on either side on this issue because I understand both sides but couldn't you defend yourself with the shotgun you are shooting if need be? Not sure where or how the range is set up but I understand not wanting some dumb@$$ shooting handguns or rifles at flying targets. I also don't like leaving my gun in my car.
    Walk softly and carry a large caliber.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigl0af View Post
    Went out to Drake Landing today to shoot clays. Walked into the office open carrying, no problem. Started shooting, and on about hole 9 the guy on the four wheeler came up to me after watching my buddies and myself shoot a while. He asked if I saw the sign saying only shotguns allowed. I said I did but took that to mean only shooting of shotguns allowed, not that open carry was prohibited. He said I was to put the gun in the cart until I was off the course.

    Sort of silly if you ask me that a shooting range would prohibit open carry, and as such I won't be returning as a customer!

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    Well, at least he didn't insult you by asking if you were law enfarcement.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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  19. #19
    Regular Member bigl0af's Avatar
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    Yea well I don't understand it...

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    People are negligent. I totally see the owners side. The course is set up and safely designed for shotguns to shoot clays. Now you take someone who watched Top Shot and saw them shooting clays with a 1911 and next thing you know you have Billy Bad Azz trying it. That .45ACP will carry farther than birdshot. Most people wont think about that. Everyone complaining about not wanting to be able to defend themselves, you have a 12 gauge in your hands. Don't want a handgun bouncing around in a golf cart? Mine would still be in the holster when I placed it in the golf cart making it as secure as if it was on my hip. Still worried, how long does it take you to clear the chamber on your weapon? Guess none of you go to gun shows do you? Ever wonder why loaded firearms are not allowed? People are negligent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    People are negligent. I totally see the owners side. The course is set up and safely designed for shotguns to shoot clays. Now you take someone who watched Top Shot and saw them shooting clays with a 1911 and next thing you know you have Billy Bad Azz trying it. That .45ACP will carry farther than birdshot. Most people wont think about that. Everyone complaining about not wanting to be able to defend themselves, you have a 12 gauge in your hands. Don't want a handgun bouncing around in a golf cart? Mine would still be in the holster when I placed it in the golf cart making it as secure as if it was on my hip. Still worried, how long does it take you to clear the chamber on your weapon? Guess none of you go to gun shows do you? Ever wonder why loaded firearms are not allowed? People are negligent.
    "People are negligent." True.

    One of the many excuses used by the gun control crowd. Fact is people are sometimes negligent regardless of the tools they use.

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    Regular Member bigl0af's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Patriot View Post
    "People are negligent." True.

    One of the many excuses used by the gun control crowd. Fact is people are sometimes negligent regardless of the tools they use.
    Sounds like you are excusing disarmament with the same reasoning liberals use. I bet if we were talking about Whole Foods and not a gun range you'd be humming a different tune.

    The fact is open carry is not allowed at Drake Landing, regardless of the owner's so called rationale, and I won't be spending my money there because of that. It is disturbing that folks who are allegedly open carry advocates would support such a policy. Hand over your open carry advocate card, please!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigl0af View Post
    Sounds like you are excusing disarmament with the same reasoning liberals use. I bet if we were talking about Whole Foods and not a gun range you'd be humming a different tune.

    The fact is open carry is not allowed at Drake Landing, regardless of the owner's so called rationale, and I won't be spending my money there because of that. It is disturbing that folks who are allegedly open carry advocates would support such a policy. Hand over your open carry advocate card, please!

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    Open Carry: Nothing about us says HANDGUNS ONLY

    We tend to focus way too much on the holstered handgun. Yes, it is low profile, less scary than a slung AR or a shotgun carried over an arm.

    You ARE allowed to open carry at Drakes Landing. However, like almost any RANGE, he has rules. Many ranges only allow you to load at the line, or do not allow any firearm handling when the range is declared cold. it is a REQUIREMENT in order to get the insurance necessary to be able to have ranges that we the public can go use. Just as gun shows MUST require no ammo in guns carried in, or else be uninsured.

    I am DISARMED if I am in the local Mexican place that happens to serve bottled bear, thus requiring that my pistols be locked up in the car. I am ARMED and OPEN CARRYING if I am walking, or riding, around with a shotgun in hand.

    This policy is just a corollary of many indoor ranges that do not allow shotguns, or pistol grip shotguns, or certain types of ammo. Its a limitation of what can be safely shot on their range. They COULD post 'no shooting pistols or rifles', but all it takes is one idiot who wants to shoot clays with their new Taurus judge. Then we end up having rules saying 'no loaded firearms other than at line when in range' or 'no handguns when on clays course' or 'shotguns only'


    I for one will PROBABLY choose not to spend my money at Drakes Landing. However, as a landowner, I do believe int he right of the owner of property to set any rules he or she wants on that property. I think in this case it could have been better posted. I do choose in most cases to spend MORE money with locations that DO allow me to carry.

    However, if I refused to go to any range or location that said I could not carry my pistol on my side,m then I would be out of work and have very few places to shop or shoot. I find wearing an empty holster, and only making small purchases at places that restrict carry makes more of a public statement than just my never going there again. I am supposed to be an ambasador, a well informed, polite armed citizen. The mroe I do to remove fear, smoothe feathers, and act 'not in anger but in sorrow' the more I get 'I am so sorry, I wish we could, but..' or 'its ok, you don't have to leave' from managers and others, instead of 'sir you have to leave now'

    Voting with our feet and our dollars works, but it never opens new doors.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    People are negligent. I totally see the owners side. The course is set up and safely designed for shotguns to shoot clays. Now you take someone who watched Top Shot and saw them shooting clays with a 1911 and next thing you know you have Billy Bad Azz trying it. That .45ACP will carry farther than birdshot. Most people wont think about that. Everyone complaining about not wanting to be able to defend themselves, you have a 12 gauge in your hands. Don't want a handgun bouncing around in a golf cart? Mine would still be in the holster when I placed it in the golf cart making it as secure as if it was on my hip. Still worried, how long does it take you to clear the chamber on your weapon? Guess none of you go to gun shows do you? Ever wonder why loaded firearms are not allowed? People are negligent.

    You are completely correct. Those jerks who would shoot a pistol randomly on a shotgun course would NEVER do anything stupid or dangerous with a 12ga shotgun, now would they?

    <sarcasm OFF>
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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