Not sure what i would of done in your place.
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OK, this may be long wined but here goes..
I needed to go to Walmart Friday night and pick up some food, so I put my Ruger SR40C in my Paddle holster and went in. I have done this many times and no one has given me a second look. I wlaked through many isles with a cart, and finally went to check out. As I was checking out, a Africian-American asked if I was an LEO. Now I was wearing jeans, and a Ky Basketball T-shirt. I told him no, and continued placing items on the counter to be scanned. He then asked why I was carrying a gun. I just told him because I can, and continued getting my items.
This is where it gets weird... He started yelling.."This is why we blacks are getting shot all the time because of people like you!" "This is why a young boy was shot because a white man had to have a gun!"
The counter person asked him to leave as he was disturbing other people. He said I don't care! This is just plain wrong.
I continued to place my items in the cart, and said Good day to him and left the store. He followed me outside still yelling at me! I pictured this in my mind hoping it wasn't going to be another Zimmerman vs Martin case. I went back to my truck, unloaded my items, and started to leave when he and 3 others started calling me honkey, white trash, and other vulgar words. I never "felt" threatened, so I left, but did call the police and told them the situation as I left. They told me that they would send a car to check it out.
I didn't have a recorder on me at that time, because it was late, and I had left it on my dresser at home charging. Guess I will get another one for times like this.
So, has anyone else has similar experiences?
i haven't had an issue of any kind. now that being said you did the right thing. Me on the other hand am to old and to tierd to put up with foolishness from anyone, Now i am not saying i would be right or wrong i am saying i would be me. I would have just walked back to them and in a calm voice tell them i am not Zimmerman, I am an ordinary man who fought for there right to disrespect me, have a nice day.
"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason
I had a feeling this was going to happen due the Martin/Zimmerman ordeal. I recall this type of thing happens every time there's a case of this nature going on. I'm sure what you experienced has already happened in other areas, just because of "the case". The media and, so called, civil rights activists are fueling the hate for people that carry self defense tools that most call firearms. I'm sure what Comm experienced will continue to happen until everything dies down or Zimmerman gets "the justice" that some are calling for.
My wife and I are heading to WV from SC very soon. Once we cross the SC border into NC we're going to be open carrying all the way. Since the Martin/Zimmerman ordeal happened, I'm actually expecting to experience at least one encounter like yours, Comm.
Though, in Comm's case it was a black male who accosted him, I doubt it will always be a black male who is doing the accosting to the open carrier.
I believe we, as open carriers, need to take situations like Comm had very seriously. If someone is pissed off enough to start accosting a complete stranger, who is visibly armed, over something they had no control over, I believe the open carrier should be more concerned, aware, and vigilant than with the usual "open carrier accosting situation".
I think a discussion on how to deal with situations like these would be a very insightful discussion.
I'm sure the members here remember what happened after the cops that beat Rodney King were acquitted. I believe there's going to be something along the lines of a riot before or after a verdict for Zimmerman. As people, of many races and cultures, who carry our self defense tools openly, I believe we'll be treated as the Koreans were around the times of the LA Riots, as the enemy.
I predict this because of the enabling that the federal and state governments are doing to further the welfare dependency of their citizens, the lack of liberty citizens get to enjoy, the lack of liberty citizens feel they don't get to enjoy, and the lack of justice that citizens feel there is.
People riot over shoes, and it happens very often:
Why wouldn't people riot over the Martin/Zimmerman ordeal when "activists" are trying to fuel rage in the "Martin supporters"? All there needs to be is just a few people to be the spark for a riot, and others will follow. Unlike the "LA Riots", I believe people of different races and cultures will be rioting. It may be on the scale of the LA Riots, or it could be nationwide smaller isolated riots, or it could be one tiny riot...I hope I'm wrong.
Last edited by carsontech; 04-22-2012 at 09:24 AM.
First, kudos to the WalMart associate (how I hate using that title) for telling the guy that OC is OK and that the guy's behavior was disturbing the place.
If you will accept some Monday morning quarterbacking - it's usually not a good idea to leave a place of relative safety to go to a place of relative risk. Remaining inside gives you not only social pressure and witnesses, but more places to move to should you want to extend distance. It also, apparently, was where that guy's compatriots were not. Besides, it gives the store folks more incentive to call the cops to deal with him and his behavior.
As you noted, the words uttered were not imminent threats of death or great bodily harm. Self control in not responding to them was also good tactics.
And finally, your recorder should be like Karl Malden's AmEx card - never leave home without it turned on. Most models can record more than 2 days' worth before the batteries go down or memory fills up. If there is nothing that needs to be saved, just erase and prepare for the next day.
"He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man
Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.
"No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
It's a shame how an ignorant Zimmerman misused the "stand your ground" law--an excellent law, and now gives both the law and carriers a bad name.
You handled the situation well, remained calm, and now he looks like the fool. Well done!
Statistically blacks are far more likely to be shot by other blacks. Just saying.
I hate to admit to this, but the situation that you just went through will probably not be the last time we hear about those types of situations. The public needs to act more responsible when hearing how incidents like Martin/Zimmerman are reported on through the media. In my opinion, the Sharptons and Jacksons of the world need to stay out of the situations instead of creating controversy whenever they speak. Just think, when Idiots like the ones that you ran into start rambling and throwing slangs, consider the source. Glad you stayed calm and everything worked out for the best interest for you.
COMM, I have not had a similar experience because I am from NJ. The only experience I would have is ending up being the "victim," if you get my drift. You handled the situation very well. Excellent response all the way. Keep up the good work. With guys like you, the 2nd Amendment is secure.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
I agree about not leaving the store, & calling the police to report the hate crime.
Hate crime? Yep - recall what they were saying to/about you.
If that were reversed, what would it be?
But overall well done.
And I agree that there will be more problems like this.
I've had someone ask me my opinion, & at the time I said we needed more information. Now more info has come out, & I tend to think that probably Z did something to scare M, but M way over-reacted & became the aggressor.
How exactly did he misuse it?Originally Posted by langzaiguy
According to witnesses, M was on top of Z, punching him in the face & bashing his head against the sidewalk.
According to police reports, M was over 6' tall.
M was an athlete.
If a large, strong person were sitting on me, punching me in the face, & hitting my head on the sidewalk, I'm pretty sure I'd think I was in imminent danger of death, & currently suffering great bodily harm.
If you're going to argue provocation, or SD on the part of M, even if Z had been a threat to M, once Z was no longer a threat (on the ground, yelling for M to stop) M had to stop. Since he didn't, he became the criminal aggressor.
Originally Posted by MLK, JrOriginally Posted by MSG LaigaieOriginally Posted by Proverbs 27:12Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
"I don't think I would have left the building. You became much more "at risk" in the parking lot. The original man had already been asked to leave. I may have asked the cashier to call the police or called them myself. Your call to the police after the fact probably accomplished nothing. By the time they arrived all participants and witnesses had probably left. We are constantly having the police called on us because we make people feel uncomfortable, just do the same thing. Leaving the recorder at home was a big mistake."
Now that a couple of you mentioned it, I guess I should have stayed in the store, and called myself. I didn't see the other 2 guys when I was in the store, so I don't know when they came to the first guy.
I guess my first instinct was not start a argument with the guy, so I left. And now that I re-think the situation, it was bad to leave the safety of the store, and venture outside. The guy didn't "follow" me out... he waited a while, about the time I got to my truck.
My recorder is old, and I guess the battery doesn't hold up for more than 8-9 hours, so I guess it's time for a new one.
Thanks for all the advise!
I'll admit to being ignorant and in the dark. All I have done is formed an opinion from the facts that I know. Isn't that all anyone can do? Or is no one allowed to have an opinion until they have 100% of the facts? Or is someone just ignorant when they have come to a different conclusion as you? If I have misinterpreted the facts, please correct me, or if my logic is faulty, please correct me. Don't just resort to name calling.
From what I understand, Z did not have RAS to stop M. Of course anyone has the right to stop and ask anyone whats up. However, if I were walking through a neighborhood and someone stopped me and asked me what I was doing, I'd probably tell them to mind their f***ing business. If M's behavior was truly suspicious, he should have called it in just as he did and let the cops take care of it. He could have even continued to follow M instead of forcing an encounter.
The "stand your ground" law was meant to be a defensive law to protect citizens in circumstances when they are fighting for your life. It's not meant to be an 'aggressive' law where you seek brinkmanship out.
This whole case will hinge on who approached who. Did Z follow M and stay, let's say, 50 feet away? Who initiated the 50-0 closure? If it was Z, then I would say that M had a reason to stand his ground. If M closed the distance because he didn't like being followed, then Z stood his ground.
As I said, throwing people under the bus just because of press reports doesn't help. I am planning on staying neutral until more evidence is revealed.
As for RAS, Z wasn't a cop so he doesn't need RAS. Even cops don't need RAS to approach, just to detain.
Technically, we're all ignorant about the Zimmerman case since no one was there.
There are only 2 people that know exactly what happened and one of them is dead.
From my understanding, Zimmerman didn't even initiate the contact. Once he was told to not follow, he turned around and started back towards his truck.
I'll admit that the first I heard about this case, I thought Zimmerman was a cop wannabe with a twitchy finger, but now Im not sure about that.
There is always going to be IGNORANT people that love to draw attention to themselves and try to stir trouble up , they can't help it it is just the nature of humans BUT you could have tried to look shocked and asked I am white ? than say darn there goes my free ride on the government and walk away ! Darn I hate IGNORANCE and worse in the ones that try to get attention to start trouble , You should have asked to have the police called as he was acting irrational .
Don't forget the option of playing the disorderly conduct card. Meaning, if someone is ranting or verbally abusing you, it may rise to disorderly conduct, depending on the law in your area.
Now, it can be pretty dangerous to call the police. Sometimes innocent people get beaten, tazered, and even killed. So, I don't recommend making the call at the first sign of trouble, but do keep it in mind as an option, if for example, the police in your area seem pretty good generally or recognize or support OC.
I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.
If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?
There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.
No issue's just looks and some NO head shaking, carsonthec have a good visit in our wonderful state, if you go by mile marker 132 on I-77 peep the horn, im right on the interstate
I am not a gun nut, nor am I a nut with a gun
I simply rufuse to be a helpless victim, I may be unable to stop myself from being a victim but at least I wont be helpless
No incidents with me. I OC'd in Bardstown at the Kroger's, KyGunCo, and Boone's Butcher shop with no problems.
When he started with the racial nonsense, "that's why all us blacks get shot," I would have said politely for every 1 black person killed by a white, 8 white people are killed by blacks. And it is normally with illegally carried/possessed firearms, not a lawfully OC'ed firearm such as yours! Ok, probably would not have said that, but it is the truth, but the truth does not matter to sharpton and Jackson!
This is the problem with sharpton and friends throwing all this race baiting nonsense around, they lie to impress upon people an image that does not exist. They are causing such a great deal of anger among blacks with all their misinformation and lies, that they are creating a very big problem from nothing other than a case of self defense. The very fact that Zimmerman was even charged is proof of this, and a black eye for the American justice system!
"I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.
Boys, Zimmerman was doing his job, he was watching a black kid in a neighborhood that he hasn't seen there before. Remember, they have seen black kids rob homes there recently. He was the neighborhood watch. All martin would of had to do was tell Zimmerman "I am going to such and such house to visit so and so" and it would of all been over.
martin darn near got in a fight with a bus driver, he had a screw driver on him during the fight, he had both of his hands on Zimmerman's face trying to smother him. He was a BIG boy, but Zimmerman was wrong for saving his own life? They found womans jewelry in his back pac I believe along with a small amount of grass. I don't think his parents paid for all the gold in his mouth, that's a drug dealer symbol. The news sure likes to show 10 year old pictures of martin, plus the cutting of the tapes of what happened.
That POS owe-bama has done more damage to race relations than anybody I can think of in the last 20 years. This thinking of "you can't do anything wrong because your black, it's not your fault" is getting old.
I think they should give Zimmerman a new car and a week paid vacation in Hawaii.
I was leaning to become racist after reading all that has been going on with this, but then I go to town and run across blacks that say Hi or ask a question about a product or just give me a smile and say good morning, Then I come back to reality and realize it's just some are a no good POS, just like some of us are.
I'll still open the door for woman and children, no matter what race they are. That useless, two face, belt buckle kissing POS owe-bama ain't gonna change me.
There's good and bad in this world, deal with it.
There was a site where even blacks agreed that martin was in the wrong, looks like they took that one down. http://www.youtube.com/watch... .
Someday I should vent, huh?