The curious, and the mindless

Had an interesting contrast of encounters this weekend. Yesterday, I was at the Albertsons in Oak Harbor, and a lady in a scooter going past suddenly backs up & says "Excuse me, is that a gun? Why do you have one?" So I talked to her for a minute or two, gave her my "'cuz it's easier than carrying a cop (tried that for a while, but he was too heavy), for the same reason I always wear a seat belt, that no matter how much I try & keep out of trouble I cannot control the behavior of others" spiel. All in all a pleasant little chat, gave her a quick low down on open carry, etc, tho I doubt she went right out & bought a gun.

And then I just bumped into Adam Klein's mini-me here at the local Ace hardware. As I'm walking in I hear someone in the parking lot, "OMG does that guy have a gun??" Thought it was a woman at first. I head over to the bolt aisle & pick out what I need, and the person meanders around behind me for a better look, while keeping his distance, 'loud-mutters' "idiot," storms off. Still on 'ignore it till it becomes a threat mode' at this point. He asks the clerk for some help, picks out a few things in the same aisle, going out of his way to keep his distance as I go back & forth getting what I need. So finally he says "is that a real gun??" Now what would be the point of carrying a fake gun? "You have a permit for that??" Don't need a permit to open carry in WA, perfectly legal. "Well we'll have to change that!" Storms off again.

I just shake my head & keep minding my own business. Finally he tracks me down again a few minutes later in a different aisle, "So I have to ask you, do you feel threatened or something??" Now I try to lay down my "seatbelt" spiel, but he immediately cuts me off "hey that's not what I asked, do you feel threatened here at Ace?" Tried a few more times to have a rational discussion, every time he cuts me off or talks over me. Think he had a few too many lattes this morning or something. Finally he storms off again. As I'm leaving I see him standing in the parking lot eyeing the truck with the big "OBAMA SUCKS" sticker. Sure he had something to say about that too.

Oy.

I see stupid people, they're everywhere and they don't even know they are stupid.

I had someone make a comment like that while I was in Lowes in Monroe.

I was getting supplies for a project and he saw I OC 2, it was warm out so I didn't wear a jacket, he comments that I must think that this is a dangerous store or something to that effect.

At Big 5 in Monroe while waiting in line the cashier made a remark implying that I might shoot him or someone else in the store. Only had one on that day I think it was my hip holster that day.

My standard response it to say "I'm an armed citizen here for the protection of the innocent." I have never been argued with after that.

Also, I state "I meet all the State of Washington's licensing requirements to carry in this manner."

Freedom1Man said:

At Big 5 in Monroe while waiting in line the cashier made a remark implying that I might shoot him or someone else in the store.

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I would have had a little chat with the manager if a cashier made a comment like that to me. Their job is not to vocalize their disapproval of customers' actions or accessories.

Jayd1981 said:

I would have had a little chat with the manager if a cashier made a comment like that to me. Their job is not to vocalize their disapproval of customers' actions or accessories.

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Disapproval of actions would be perfectly acceptable. It is their property.

gogodawgs said:

Disapproval of actions would be perfectly acceptable. It is their property.

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I would disagree with you there. If the company has no problem with someone OCing then the cashier should not be making remarks, especially insinuating that he was going to shoot up the place. To me that is unnessessarily trying to cause a panic.

gogodawgs said:

Disapproval of actions would be perfectly acceptable. It is their property.

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So you would accept such from your underlings at the gun shop? I doubt that.

It may be their RIGHT, but it is not their PLACE. Especially from an underling.


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Metalhead47 said:

So you would accept such from your underlings at the gun shop? I doubt that.

It may be their RIGHT, but it is not their PLACE. Especially from an underling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Behavior, yes I would. I empower my employees to make decisions. And unacceptable behavior is defined under me. They are not underlings they are people they are people whom I have entrusted.

Do you think the customer is always right?

gogodawgs said:

Behavior, yes I would. I empower my employees to make decisions. And unacceptable behavior is defined under me. They are not underlings they are people they are people whom I have entrusted.

Do you think the customer is always right?

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Uh huh. So if a person came in in traditional Arab garb and one of your employees made a remark that he was there to blow up the place, you'd be ok with that right? When the customer is doing nothing illegal or even remotely threatening, yeah he's generally right. Insinuating that a customer is going to shoot up the place because they have a gun, blow up the place because they're Muslim, or rob the place because they're black is absolutely unacceptable behavior from any employee, and when it comes from an UNDERLING (you can use whatever cutesy euphemism you want, underlings are underlings, accept it and move on), it is the responsibility of the manager or other overling to correct such MISTAKE.

Metalhead47 said:

Uh huh. So if a person came in in traditional Arab garb and one of your employees made a remark that he was there to blow up the place, you'd be ok with that right? When the customer is doing nothing illegal or even remotely threatening, yeah he's generally right. Insinuating that a customer is going to shoot up the place because they have a gun, blow up the place because they're Muslim, or rob the place because they're black is absolutely unacceptable behavior from any employee, and when it comes from an UNDERLING (you can use whatever cutesy euphemism you want, underlings are underlings, accept it and move on), it is the responsibility of the manager or other overling to correct such MISTAKE.

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I think I said something to the cashier about it. I used to shop and OC in there fairly often. What caused me to remember this incident at all was the fact that after they got my stuff rang up, I think I might have gotten my hunting and fishing licenses there that day, I barely had time to get into my car and start leaving before a cop showed up and gave me the stink eye as I was leaving.

I, normally, am calm and point out that comments like that are uncalled for and rude. I would rather they think about it and fix it. Now if I had heard it more than twice like it might start to be a pattern then I would have mentioned something to the manager there. Him and I would visit with each other every time I stopped in.

Hell the guys in Radio Shack (Monroe) were down right friendly to me when I OC in there. But this thread is not about friendly people when we OC it is about the stupid people we encounter.


Having an OC on a drop leg holster is nice. I have people who would normally want to hassle me about something see it and then leave me alone. The most common questions are:
Is it real?
Do you have a license to do that?
One in awhile I will get a
How can I do that?

Metalhead47 said:

Uh huh. So if a person came in in traditional Arab garb and one of your employees made a remark that he was there to blow up the place, you'd be ok with that right? When the customer is doing nothing illegal or even remotely threatening, yeah he's generally right. Insinuating that a customer is going to shoot up the place because they have a gun, blow up the place because they're Muslim, or rob the place because they're black is absolutely unacceptable behavior from any employee, and when it comes from an UNDERLING (you can use whatever cutesy euphemism you want, underlings are underlings, accept it and move on), it is the responsibility of the manager or other overling to correct such MISTAKE.

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Re read what I posted. I said behavior, of the customer. I said actions, of the customer. Not what they are wearing.

(If an employee made a comment that is out of line they will be handled accordingly.)

gogodawgs said:

SNIP (If an employee made a comment that is out of line they will be handled accordingly.)

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The handling will be out of line, too?

Metalhead47 said:

Had an interesting contrast of encounters this weekend. Yesterday, I was at the Albertsons in Oak Harbor, and a lady in a scooter going past suddenly backs up & says "Excuse me, is that a gun? Why do you have one?" So I talked to her for a minute or two, gave her my "'cuz it's easier than carrying a cop (tried that for a while, but he was too heavy), for the same reason I always wear a seat belt, that no matter how much I try & keep out of trouble I cannot control the behavior of others" spiel. All in all a pleasant little chat, gave her a quick low down on open carry, etc, tho I doubt she went right out & bought a gun.

And then I just bumped into Adam Klein's mini-me here at the local Ace hardware. As I'm walking in I hear someone in the parking lot, "OMG does that guy have a gun??" Thought it was a woman at first. I head over to the bolt aisle & pick out what I need, and the person meanders around behind me for a better look, while keeping his distance, 'loud-mutters' "idiot," storms off. Still on 'ignore it till it becomes a threat mode' at this point. He asks the clerk for some help, picks out a few things in the same aisle, going out of his way to keep his distance as I go back & forth getting what I need. So finally he says "is that a real gun??" Now what would be the point of carrying a fake gun? "You have a permit for that??" Don't need a permit to open carry in WA, perfectly legal. "Well we'll have to change that!" Storms off again.

I just shake my head & keep minding my own business. Finally he tracks me down again a few minutes later in a different aisle, "So I have to ask you, do you feel threatened or something??" Now I try to lay down my "seatbelt" spiel, but he immediately cuts me off "hey that's not what I asked, do you feel threatened here at Ace?" Tried a few more times to have a rational discussion, every time he cuts me off or talks over me. Think he had a few too many lattes this morning or something. Finally he storms off again. As I'm leaving I see him standing in the parking lot eyeing the truck with the big "OBAMA SUCKS" sticker. Sure he had something to say about that too.

Oy.

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After he continued following you around a while, I think I would have turned and asked him "Are you Stalking Me!" Perhaps loud enough to bring some attention from the store management.

This is what happens when WA State uses the "streets" as their mental treatment facilities. There was a time that people like this were given nice safe places to live under medical supervision.

What, no video?

Oh, on the 'I'm here for the protection of the innocent' - well meaning but, no, you're not. That's the job of the LEO. You are licensed/armed/OC-ing for the protection of yourself in the gravest extreme or your loved ones' self-defense if they are in a life threatening encounter with an armed perp. Do not feel the need to hap-hazardly step in and protect someone whom you don't know, who could be an undercover LEO's target, who could be in a DV situation. You'll get charged, or worse, shot.

IMO the best defense to pointed questions is videoing, then calling it in as stalking. Don't leave the store, where you are protected.

Also, most needs for firearms, I'd guess is not in the actual store but in the store parking lot. Doubt that would have shut him up though. After the second questioning, I'd be on the phone to 911 with a stalking complaint. Again get audio or video first to support your claim. You MUST be so prepared if you are going to OC.

sawah said:

What, no video?

Oh, on the 'I'm here for the protection of the innocent' - well meaning but, no, you're not. That's the job of the LEO. You are licensed/armed/OC-ing for the protection of yourself in the gravest extreme or your loved ones' self-defense if they are in a life threatening encounter with an armed perp. Do not feel the need to hap-hazardly step in and protect someone whom you don't know, who could be an undercover LEO's target, who could be in a DV situation. You'll get charged, or worse, shot.

IMO the best defense to pointed questions is videoing, then calling it in as stalking. Don't leave the store, where you are protected.

Also, most needs for firearms, I'd guess is not in the actual store but in the store parking lot. Doubt that would have shut him up though. After the second questioning, I'd be on the phone to 911 with a stalking complaint. Again get audio or video first to support your claim. You MUST be so prepared if you are going to OC.

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WA is a two-party consent state for recording. Can't video someone without their consent. So no, I don't wander around recording everything. I'll save doing so for an actual problem, not some mildly annoying/amusing idiot who's taken personal offense from my sidearm, AND who, in the end, was not doing anything unlawful, as the conversation(s) were consensual. Well, at least *I* was really making an effort to have a conversation...

Metalhead47 said:

WA is a two-party consent state for recording. Can't video someone without their consent. So no, I don't wander around recording everything. I'll save doing so for an actual problem, not some mildly annoying/amusing idiot who's taken personal offense from my sidearm, AND who, in the end, was not doing anything unlawful, as the conversation(s) were consensual. Well, at least *I* was really making an effort to have a conversation...

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It's only two party consent if in private. If you're in public you can record whatever you want. If you go into a store you can bet you're being recorded.

tombrewster421 said:

It's only two party consent if in private. If you're in public you can record whatever you want. If you go into a store you can bet you're being recorded.

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Notice must be given. Either written (a sign) or verbal. If you are free to leave and you choose not to then consent is complicit.

tombrewster421 said:

It's only two party consent if in private. If you're in public you can record whatever you want. If you go into a store you can bet you're being recorded.

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Video, yes, audio, not likely. Doubt if this Ace even has cameras. But either way, I don't feel it necessary to record every single interaction with every person I encounter.

Metalhead47 said:

Video, yes, audio, not likely. Doubt if this Ace even has cameras. But either way, I don't feel it necessary to record every single interaction with every person I encounter.

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I had to show a lawyer the case that ruled on this.

If there is no reasonable expectation of privacy then you don't need permission to audio/video record.
The case was about someone recording a cop using a hidden recorder. The cops charged the man and the court ruled the man was not breaking any law and that we can record in public without consent.

Don't worry even lawyers don't always know the law.

The thing about grocery stores is that they can put a limit on recording because it's a private business. They can record you and you imply consent by entering the store. Thankfully the law requires that their recording activity be posted at the entrances.

sawah said:

What, no video?

Oh, on the 'I'm here for the protection of the innocent' - well meaning but, no, you're not. That's the job of the LEO. You are licensed/armed/OC-ing for the protection of yourself in the gravest extreme or your loved ones' self-defense if they are in a life threatening encounter with an armed perp. Do not feel the need to hap-hazardly step in and protect someone whom you don't know, who could be an undercover LEO's target, who could be in a DV situation. You'll get charged, or worse, shot.

IMO the best defense to pointed questions is videoing, then calling it in as stalking. Don't leave the store, where you are protected.

Also, most needs for firearms, I'd guess is not in the actual store but in the store parking lot. Doubt that would have shut him up though. After the second questioning, I'd be on the phone to 911 with a stalking complaint. Again get audio or video first to support your claim. You MUST be so prepared if you are going to OC.

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And for over a hundred years when we didn't have proactive police force who protected the innocent? Other armed citizens. And courts have upheld that cops have no duty to protect.