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Thread: Opinion on this video.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Wolfebane's Avatar
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    Opinion on this video.

    I would like your opinion on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x7Ro...layer_embedded

    As it pertains to generalities but also specifically to Washington state.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Ho boy.

    I could say a thing or two but I think I'll just put on some flame retardant clothes &
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    I think I know exactly how this thread will be going... As for me, I'm pretty sure I agree with the majority of the people in here. I'll just wait and watch, though, as I know others will be much more articulate about this. Lols
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    "People need to know this is not something personal about them."

    Glad to know the actors are equal-opportunity, unpersonally anti-rights and pro-police.

    I suspect some of these professionals advising to being polite and to think about the cop are advising such because they know cops and know some cops will have bad reactions. Meaning, they know a certain number of cops will react adversely, so they're telling us to do such-and-such to help avoid a beating, false arrest, unjustified car search, unjustified gun seizure. That or they're just statists.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    They are looking at proceedure from an officers point of view, you are not required to produce CPL ID for a simple traffic stop and unless it was something more the officer has no business knowing about my firearm.


    While i respect officer ayoob and his work with the armed citizens legal defence network i am going to have to disagree with him on this approach.
    +thought for the day+
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  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Massad is good, but he is not perfect. One size does not fit all.
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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    .........One size does not fit all.
    This is truth. Every stop will be a roll of the dice. You know it, I know it. Be calm, carry on!
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    I received a ticket from the Federal Way PD at the end of March. I pulled over, started my recorder on my iPhone and rolled the window down about 4 inches. The officer approached. My hands were on the steering wheel in plain view. He asked me to roll the window down the entire way. I simply stated that it was down far enough and he dropped the issue. He asked for my ID and registration, which I presented to him. He went back to his car, wrote me a ticket and then returned and delivered it to me. He informed me of 'traffic school' to receive a deferral and then left me to go on my way. At no time did I offer my CPL or that I was armed. I had no reason to, it was not part of a traffic infraction. At no time did the officer ask if I was armed. If at anytime I would of been asked to step out of the vehicle then I would of taken a different course of action.

    (p.s. I received my court date for my contested hearing last Wednesday for a hearing date of 4/27! This is clearly in violation of IRLJ 2.6 which gives me 14 days preparation for court. Therefore, I will be serving the court this Thursday for a speedy hearing and on Friday I will have this ticket dismissed!)

    As for Ayoob, YMMV. I don't find him very interesting or accurate in much of what he presents regarding rights.
    Live Free or Die!

  9. #9
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    What Massad has presented in my view is simply a generic video for police contact that is for all 50 States, like a lawyer giving advice, CYA.

    Nothing in the video is recommending or suggesting to give up ones rights in these encounters.
    Here in Washington State you can but not required to advised the Officer when being contacted, so is the video wrong, no.

    I have done both as to offering and not offering information as to if I am carrying and it has on one occasion gave me a pass on a speeding ticket of being 10 over. Do I expect to get a pass if I show my CPL or give advanced knowledge of my carrying, no.
    Last edited by BigDave; 04-23-2012 at 03:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    What Massad has presented in my view is simply a generic video for police contact that is for all 50 States, like a lawyer giving advice, CYA.

    Nothing in the video is recommending or suggesting to give up ones rights in these encounters.
    Here in Washington State you can but not required to advised the Officer when being contacted, so is the video wrong, no.

    I have done both as to offering and not offering information as to if I am carrying and it has on one occasion gave me a pass on a speeding ticket of being 10 over. Do I expect to get a pass if I show my CPL or give advanced knowledge of my carrying, no.
    Pretty much sums it up. What he recommended was the course of action if you are required to inform the officer that you're carrying.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    When stopped I don't even mention that I am armed unless they ask.

    I have heard too many mixed stories about handing the CPP over with the DL.

    One guy did that the cop let him go then called the county to handle him a couple of blocks away.
    The county cops came up threatened him and harassed him etc.

    I know that Washington State law says you must show your CPP upon request while you are CC and then the legit authority asks to see it. IE a cops notices you printing and asks to see your CPP.


    I think that this video is too cop sided.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post

    I know that Washington State law says you must show your CPP upon request while you are CC and then the legit authority asks to see it. IE a cops notices you printing and asks to see your CPP..
    I don't think I agree with this...can you be a little clearer in why you think an officer can stop me without a RAS and ask me for my CPL simply because he thinks I am "printing"?
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59
    can you be a little clearer in why you think an officer can stop me without a RAS and ask me for my CPL simply because he thinks I am "printing"?
    Because in the vast majority of the country concealed carry of a 'weapon' is a crime of some variety.
    Having a license is an affirmative defense to that crime.
    Seeing a bulge that looks like other bulges which in the past have meant a concealed 'weapon' gives the officer RAS.

    Here in WI, we only have to produce license & ID if we're carrying concealed, or in one of the "protected" places (taxpayer-owned building, taxpayer-owned park, within 1000' of a school property, or a place that serves alcohol... though the last is OK with permission if OC).

    I'm waiting for the time when I'm carrying openly & concealed & some officer thinks that I have to have a license to carry openly... and after I hand over my license & ID I point out that the law says I only have to show it if I'm carrying concealed.

    Wait a few seconds, see if s/he understands what I've just said - I know the law says I have to show a license if I'm cc, I've just handed her a license, therefore I'm also carrying concealed.
    Wonder what the reaction will be?
    Last edited by MKEgal; 04-23-2012 at 08:42 PM.
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  14. #14
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    "printing" is not enough of a RAS or PC to come up and ask for ID in WA. If the LEO sees an actual part of a firearm, then they would have enough, otherwise the LEO could ask anyone at any time for their CPL since the whole damn country is overweight. The state of Washington is not real big on fishing expeditions.

    General citation and good resource for legal issues, even with the bias of for LEOs

    https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/ind...=137&Itemid=80

  15. #15
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    "printing" is not enough of a RAS or PC to come up and ask for ID in WA. If the LEO sees an actual part of a firearm, then they would have enough, otherwise the LEO could ask anyone at any time for their CPL since the whole damn country is overweight. The state of Washington is not real big on fishing expeditions.

    General citation and good resource for legal issues, even with the bias of for LEOs

    https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/ind...=137&Itemid=80
    I stand corrected.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Thing is in certain states it is required to inform the officer in a traffic stop so this would be the ideal situation is some states, now in WA just act as if don't have a firearm and its a normal traffic stop unless it gets to the point where the officer asks you if you have a firearm in the vehicle or if the officer asks you to get out of the vehicle.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Massad is good, but he is not perfect. One size does not fit all.
    I would not hesitate to take his LFI (Lethal Force Institute) course if I could afford the fee.

    However, you kinda haveta know your person. I've been reading his stuff for over ten years, starting with his column in Combat Handguns.

    Here is what I have come to think.

    I think he spins and adds drama just a bit to his legal articles and self-defense stuff. Sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. But, if you just factor that in, "Oh, that's just Mas being Mas." And, subtract a bit for it, you're probably right on the money.

    On rights, I have a big objection with him. He feels nobody should be allowed to carry in public unless trained (read CCW permit) because the untrained defender might hurt or kill an innocent accidentally. He's pretty forceful on this point. But, he also completely misses the point about government and rights. None of this changes the paragraph above, though.

    He's obviously pro-cop. The video in the OP proves that fast enough. He has a number of articles and brief descriptions about police shootings--he's been an expert witness for years. I cannot recall a single one where the cop was mentioned to do anything wrong to the citizen, just wrong tactics if anything. It is to the point where I have come to suspect he may be deliberately overlooking the possibility of wrongful cop conduct. Now, this is based entirely on his print writings. I've missed all his internet TV stuff in the last few years, so I don't know if he's criticized bad shoots like the BART subway shooting in CA a couple years ago, or any others.

    So, on the balance, I would say that he is a very good self-defense authority (you just have to leaven some of what he says or writes).
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  18. #18
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    Here's my strategy, don't get pulled over in the first place.

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    Good luck on the dont get pulled over.You will at some time get pulled over I do not care who you are.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlacsamana1989 View Post
    unless it gets to the point where the officer asks you if you have a firearm in the vehicle or if the officer asks you to get out of the vehicle.
    My recommendation would be to not allow the casual conversation to reach that point. The officer is there for a specific infraction, anything else is really irrelevant which is similar to what I would say if asked.
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 04-24-2012 at 01:40 AM.
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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuma View Post
    Here's my strategy, don't get pulled over in the first place.

    I was 'stopped' for being stopped on the side of the highway in east wa on Hwy 2. I say stopped because he turned his lights on and I did not feel I would have been free to leave before he contacted me and let me go. I was not breaking any laws and I did not plan on having a state trooper stop behind me but it happened.

    In the end, it was only a few seconds that we spoke even though he stayed behind me likely running my plates for a few minutes.

    Just to show, prepare because the unexpected will occur when your not expecting it...
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

    It's called the "American Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it. - George Carlin

    I carry a spare tire, in case I have a flat. I carry life insurance, in case I die. I carry a gun, in case I need it.

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