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Opinion on this video.

Metalhead47

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,800
Location
South Whidbey, Washington, USA
Ho boy.:rolleyes:

I could say a thing or two but I think I'll just put on some flame retardant clothes &
asset.php
 

xxx.jakk.xxx

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
467
I think I know exactly how this thread will be going... As for me, I'm pretty sure I agree with the majority of the people in here. I'll just wait and watch, though, as I know others will be much more articulate about this. Lols
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
"People need to know this is not something personal about them."

Glad to know the actors are equal-opportunity, unpersonally anti-rights and pro-police.

I suspect some of these professionals advising to being polite and to think about the cop are advising such because they know cops and know some cops will have bad reactions. Meaning, they know a certain number of cops will react adversely, so they're telling us to do such-and-such to help avoid a beating, false arrest, unjustified car search, unjustified gun seizure. That or they're just statists.
 

Schlepnier

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
420
Location
Yelm, Washington USA
They are looking at proceedure from an officers point of view, you are not required to produce CPL ID for a simple traffic stop and unless it was something more the officer has no business knowing about my firearm.
:banghead:

While i respect officer ayoob and his work with the armed citizens legal defence network i am going to have to disagree with him on this approach.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
I received a ticket from the Federal Way PD at the end of March. I pulled over, started my recorder on my iPhone and rolled the window down about 4 inches. The officer approached. My hands were on the steering wheel in plain view. He asked me to roll the window down the entire way. I simply stated that it was down far enough and he dropped the issue. He asked for my ID and registration, which I presented to him. He went back to his car, wrote me a ticket and then returned and delivered it to me. He informed me of 'traffic school' to receive a deferral and then left me to go on my way. At no time did I offer my CPL or that I was armed. I had no reason to, it was not part of a traffic infraction. At no time did the officer ask if I was armed. If at anytime I would of been asked to step out of the vehicle then I would of taken a different course of action.

(p.s. I received my court date for my contested hearing last Wednesday for a hearing date of 4/27! This is clearly in violation of IRLJ 2.6 which gives me 14 days preparation for court. Therefore, I will be serving the court this Thursday for a speedy hearing and on Friday I will have this ticket dismissed!)

As for Ayoob, YMMV. I don't find him very interesting or accurate in much of what he presents regarding rights.
 

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
What Massad has presented in my view is simply a generic video for police contact that is for all 50 States, like a lawyer giving advice, CYA.

Nothing in the video is recommending or suggesting to give up ones rights in these encounters.
Here in Washington State you can but not required to advised the Officer when being contacted, so is the video wrong, no.

I have done both as to offering and not offering information as to if I am carrying and it has on one occasion gave me a pass on a speeding ticket of being 10 over. Do I expect to get a pass if I show my CPL or give advanced knowledge of my carrying, no.
 
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p2a1x7

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
99
Location
Pullman, Washington, USA
What Massad has presented in my view is simply a generic video for police contact that is for all 50 States, like a lawyer giving advice, CYA.

Nothing in the video is recommending or suggesting to give up ones rights in these encounters.
Here in Washington State you can but not required to advised the Officer when being contacted, so is the video wrong, no.

I have done both as to offering and not offering information as to if I am carrying and it has on one occasion gave me a pass on a speeding ticket of being 10 over. Do I expect to get a pass if I show my CPL or give advanced knowledge of my carrying, no.

Pretty much sums it up. What he recommended was the course of action if you are required to inform the officer that you're carrying.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
When stopped I don't even mention that I am armed unless they ask.

I have heard too many mixed stories about handing the CPP over with the DL.

One guy did that the cop let him go then called the county to handle him a couple of blocks away.
The county cops came up threatened him and harassed him etc.

I know that Washington State law says you must show your CPP upon request while you are CC and then the legit authority asks to see it. IE a cops notices you printing and asks to see your CPP.


I think that this video is too cop sided.
 

jt59

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
1,005
Location
Central South Sound
I know that Washington State law says you must show your CPP upon request while you are CC and then the legit authority asks to see it. IE a cops notices you printing and asks to see your CPP..

I don't think I agree with this...can you be a little clearer in why you think an officer can stop me without a RAS and ask me for my CPL simply because he thinks I am "printing"?
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
jt59 said:
can you be a little clearer in why you think an officer can stop me without a RAS and ask me for my CPL simply because he thinks I am "printing"?
Because in the vast majority of the country concealed carry of a 'weapon' is a crime of some variety.
Having a license is an affirmative defense to that crime.
Seeing a bulge that looks like other bulges which in the past have meant a concealed 'weapon' gives the officer RAS.

Here in WI, we only have to produce license & ID if we're carrying concealed, or in one of the "protected" places (taxpayer-owned building, taxpayer-owned park, within 1000' of a school property, or a place that serves alcohol... though the last is OK with permission if OC).

I'm waiting for the time when I'm carrying openly & concealed & some officer thinks that I have to have a license to carry openly... and after I hand over my license & ID I point out that the law says I only have to show it if I'm carrying concealed.

Wait a few seconds, see if s/he understands what I've just said - I know the law says I have to show a license if I'm cc, I've just handed her a license, therefore I'm also carrying concealed.
Wonder what the reaction will be?
 
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Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
"printing" is not enough of a RAS or PC to come up and ask for ID in WA. If the LEO sees an actual part of a firearm, then they would have enough, otherwise the LEO could ask anyone at any time for their CPL since the whole damn country is overweight. The state of Washington is not real big on fishing expeditions.

General citation and good resource for legal issues, even with the bias of for LEOs

https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=137&Itemid=80
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
"printing" is not enough of a RAS or PC to come up and ask for ID in WA. If the LEO sees an actual part of a firearm, then they would have enough, otherwise the LEO could ask anyone at any time for their CPL since the whole damn country is overweight. The state of Washington is not real big on fishing expeditions.

General citation and good resource for legal issues, even with the bias of for LEOs

https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=137&Itemid=80

I stand corrected.
 

rlacsamana1989

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
34
Location
Everett,WA
Thing is in certain states it is required to inform the officer in a traffic stop so this would be the ideal situation is some states, now in WA just act as if don't have a firearm and its a normal traffic stop unless it gets to the point where the officer asks you if you have a firearm in the vehicle or if the officer asks you to get out of the vehicle.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Massad is good, but he is not perfect. One size does not fit all.

I would not hesitate to take his LFI (Lethal Force Institute) course if I could afford the fee.

However, you kinda haveta know your person. I've been reading his stuff for over ten years, starting with his column in Combat Handguns.

Here is what I have come to think.

I think he spins and adds drama just a bit to his legal articles and self-defense stuff. Sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. But, if you just factor that in, "Oh, that's just Mas being Mas." And, subtract a bit for it, you're probably right on the money.

On rights, I have a big objection with him. He feels nobody should be allowed to carry in public unless trained (read CCW permit) because the untrained defender might hurt or kill an innocent accidentally. He's pretty forceful on this point. But, he also completely misses the point about government and rights. None of this changes the paragraph above, though.

He's obviously pro-cop. The video in the OP proves that fast enough. He has a number of articles and brief descriptions about police shootings--he's been an expert witness for years. I cannot recall a single one where the cop was mentioned to do anything wrong to the citizen, just wrong tactics if anything. It is to the point where I have come to suspect he may be deliberately overlooking the possibility of wrongful cop conduct. Now, this is based entirely on his print writings. I've missed all his internet TV stuff in the last few years, so I don't know if he's criticized bad shoots like the BART subway shooting in CA a couple years ago, or any others.

So, on the balance, I would say that he is a very good self-defense authority (you just have to leaven some of what he says or writes).
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
unless it gets to the point where the officer asks you if you have a firearm in the vehicle or if the officer asks you to get out of the vehicle.

My recommendation would be to not allow the casual conversation to reach that point. The officer is there for a specific infraction, anything else is really irrelevant which is similar to what I would say if asked. :)
 
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