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Thread: I could lie about who I am voting for...

  1. #1
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I could lie about who I am voting for...

    ...but I won't.

    I am voting for President Obama...again; well, likely--I would say a 99% chance.

    Now, on the off-chance that Paul runs Third Party, then I am throwing my lott to the cause.

    Then that begs the question: What if Romney took Paul as the VP?

    Answer: Then there would be a 49% chance that I would vote for Romney--I don't see Paul as being some sort of Dick Cheney type-of VP. I must say though, Paul seems a bit timid in his disposition, although, I am sure he isn't actually like that, but he seems a little Carteresque in appearance.

    Sure, it can be argued that we know what President Obama is capable of, and the second term will be worse than the first; that of course is based on the premise that his first term was really that bad. Then again, Romney is no peach, IMO.

    I suppose what I am stuck with here is a philosophical exercise that has to do with more than just one issue--Second Amendment. Now, the Second Amendment is something that I am in support of, and I whole-heartedly believe that when Obama states he believes the Constitution support the individual right to bear arms, I take him at what he says; that's not to state that I believe he wouldn't regulate, regulate, regulate--basically, push for something along the lines of an AWB II.

    I wish that these political positions were as simple as cutting down the issue of the Second Amendment, but they aren't; at least not in my world.

    But when we walk into that booth, or mail-in our vote, we are deciding which might be the lesser of two evils, and I wonder: What makes my vote for what I see as the 'lesser of two evils' in throwing it at President Obama and worse, or better for that matter, when the person next to me is throwing their vote to Romney, whom they think is the 'lesser of two evils'?

    Good luck out there people. Be safe.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 04-23-2012 at 02:41 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  2. #2
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    The screed above is further evidence that there is not a spit of difference between the left-wing Democrats and the right-wing Republicans of the Ruling Class. Read and understand Angelo Codevilla's America's Ruling Class: And the Perils of Revoultion, The American Spectator http://spectator.org/archives/2010/0...-class-and-the

    http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...ling_class.pdf

  3. #3
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I disagree with this assertion; there have been all of these things taught in school for a very long time:

    " Nor had the schools and universities that formed yesterday's upper crust imposed a single orthodoxy about the origins of man, about American history, and about how America should be governed. All that has changed."
    http://spectator.org/archives/2010/0...-class-and-the
    Ok...about half-way through the writer lost my agreement.

    I will read the PDF when I have a chance, it's not too long. It appears to be an attack again Climate Change, and more broadly, Science. Science has become a bad word to some, unfortunately.

    But we both agree--it seems--that both political party's occupy the same coin.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  4. #4
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The same side of the coin, the problem is that it has been landing on that side for quite some time, and likely to continue to do so. I'm just grateful that we get a chance to see if will land on the otherside from time to time.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  5. #5
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    I believe it was Obama himself that stated if he didn't fix the economy by his 3rd year in office he should be a one term president? I intend to help him with that campaign promise.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  6. #6
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    [snippers] I'm just grateful that we get a chance to see if will land on the otherside from time to time.
    I sense a rejection of W.; am I wrong about this? If Republicans, or those who tend to vote Republican are rejecting W., whom most of them voted into office--at least the second time--then Republicans are in worse shape than I thought. I have heard plenty of people claim that W. was not a 'true Conservative,' whatever the hell that is to begin with. Ironically, most Liberals I talk with, tell me that there hasn't been a 'true Liberal' voted into office for decades.

    But I digress, I suppose both side of the aisle have valid complaints.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  7. #7
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    I believe it was Obama himself that stated if he didn't fix the economy by his 3rd year in office he should be a one term president? I intend to help him with that campaign promise.
    I am not sure what constitutes Fixing The Economy. Republicans helping by stone-walling everything doesn't bode well for their side either. We will see what happens in November--I could be wrong, then again, I could be right...we will see.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 04-23-2012 at 03:22 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    I believe it was Obama himself that stated if he didn't fix the economy by his 3rd year in office he should be a one term president? I intend to help him with that campaign promise.
    I, too, do not trust him and will vote against him. He is an embarrassment as a president.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  9. #9
    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    Wow.. .. just wow.

    How do you go from saying you are going to vote for Obama (Who has already pooped all over the Constitution with the signature of the NDAA, and renewal of the patriot act and will have NO problem signing anti-gun legislation if it makes it to his desk) and Ron Paul?

    Is your post serious? Are you that much of a bandwagoner? I have to think that it is a joke....

    (I'm a 100% Ron Paul supporter BTW)
    Last edited by Walt_Kowalski; 04-23-2012 at 03:34 PM.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
    -- George Washington

  10. #10
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    I agree I don't know how you go from Obama to Ron Paul.

    The question of gun policy and control is no question. Where is Obama from, Chicago. It has some of the most restrictive gun laws out there but it does have one of the highest crime rates so I guess it is ok.

    As for the budget and the deficit Obama and Ron Paul are on totally opposet ends of the spectrum with Romney willing to say anything to get elected.

    I'm neither a Dem or a Rep, I'm a Ron Paul Supporter and a Constutionalist.

    I did vote for W both times and believe W's second term was one of the worst presidetial terms in the history of the USA, that was until Obama was elected and I use the term elected loosly.

  11. #11
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    I pray for Obama....Psalm 109:8

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    Two words: Gary Johnson.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post

    we are deciding which might be the lesser of two evils,


    True, but voting for either one of them is STILL voting for an evil.

    Personally, I probably wont vote for president. Both of them have never lived in the real world.
    Hell, I doubt Obama or Romney even know how to change a tire.

    Whether Obama supporters want to admit it or not, Obama is indeed a Marxist.
    To me, Romney seems like a robot.

    Either one are far from real presidential material.
    Last edited by Sig229; 04-23-2012 at 05:40 PM.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  14. #14
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    True, but voting for either one of them is STILL voting for an evil.

    Personally, I probably wont vote for president. Both of them have never lived in the real world.
    Hell, I doubt Obama or Romney even know how to change a tire.

    Whether Obama supporters want to admit it or not, Obama is indeed a Marxist.
    To me, Romney seems like a robot.

    Either one are far from real presidential material.
    If you don't vote then don't complain. If you vote for the person and they win then don't complain.

    If you vote for a canidate and he doesn't win then complain for the next 4 years...simple

  15. #15
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    If you don't vote then don't complain. If you vote for the person and they win then don't complain.

    If you vote for a canidate and he doesn't win then complain for the next 4 years...simple

    BullSh-t.
    I can and will complain all I want because unless Romney turns out to be Thomas Jefferson reincarnated, our nation and constitution is still being stripped and ignored by most of our elected officials from the bottom feeders all the way up to the highest office.

    Im sick of witnessing our country being sold out and the constitution being used as out house toilet paper on both sides of the isle.
    Republican, Democrat, Obama or Romney.
    Same ice cream, different flavor.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt_Kowalski View Post
    Wow.. .. just wow.

    How do you go from saying you are going to vote for Obama (Who has already pooped all over the Constitution with the signature of the NDAA, and renewal of the patriot act and will have NO problem signing anti-gun legislation if it makes it to his desk) and Ron Paul?

    (I'm a 100% Ron Paul supporter BTW)

    It it easy, a vote FOR Ron Paul is a vote for Obama. I like RP, but doesn't have a chance in winning so every vote cast for him will be a VOTE for Obama.

    If you won't Obama out then you can't vote for RP.
    If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege.
    --- Arkansas Supreme Court, Wilson v. State (1878)

  17. #17
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    True, but voting for either one of them is STILL voting for an evil.

    Personally, I probably wont vote for president. Both of them have never lived in the real world.
    Hell, I doubt Obama or Romney even know how to change a tire.

    Whether Obama supporters want to admit it or not, Obama is indeed a Marxist.
    To me, Romney seems like a robot.

    Either one are far from real presidential material.
    That'l teach em.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  18. #18
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt_Kowalski View Post
    Wow.. .. just wow.

    I know, it's mind-boggling, isn't it?


    How do you go from saying you are going to vote for Obama (Who has already pooped all over the Constitution with the signature of the NDAA, and renewal of the patriot act and will have NO problem signing anti-gun legislation if it makes it to his desk) and Ron Paul?
    The premise is that President Obama has sh*t on the Constitution; I reject that premise. The second portion: anti-firearm legislation won't make it to his desk--it isn't as if he is going to have the House, and Democrats might barely hang onto the Senate.

    Is your post serious? Are you that much of a bandwagoner? I have to think that it is a joke....
    So, if I vote for Obama then I am a bandwagoner, but if I vote for Paul, or Romney, then that makes me a...wait, Bandwagoner, just from a different relative political position.

    (I'm a 100% Ron Paul supporter BTW)
    Then vote Paul in.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    BullSh-t.
    I can and will complain all I want because unless Romney turns out to be Thomas Jefferson reincarnated, our nation and constitution is still being stripped and ignored by most of our elected officials from the bottom feeders all the way up to the highest office.
    +1. I had thought this tired, old argument about no-vote=no complain was put to rest years ago.

    Whether I vote or not has no bearing on my right to complain. I have a First Amendment right to petition for redress of grievances. It is not limited to voters. All I need in order to rightfully complain is to be 1. alive (unalienable rights), and 2. encroached or infringed.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 223to45 View Post
    SNIP It it easy, a vote FOR Ron Paul is a vote for Obama.
    No its not. This is sloppy thinking that twists responsibility.

    I am empowered to vote my conscious. If an undesirable, destructive candidate wins, his voters are responsible. And, the undesirable, destructive candidate is responsible for his own destructive actions in office.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    No its not. This is sloppy thinking...
    It's not sloppy. It's dead-on proven game theory 101. A vote for someone with no hope of winning is a vote that could have been cast for the RNC-chosen candidate who stands the only chance of beating Obama... but wasn't. It's an opportunity lost, a wasted vote, one cast in a frivolous and irresponsible manner.

    If an undesirable, destructive candidate wins, his voters are responsible. And, the undesirable, destructive candidate is responsible for his own destructive actions in office.
    How can a candidate be "undesirable" if more people vote for him than the other guy? Sad to say, but Obama's in office because more people voted for him than for McCain. However, he's ALSO in office because way too many Republicans sat on their cans instead of heading to the polls last election. Their votes were wasted, as were the ones cast for write-ins.

    At the RNC, only one candidate will be chosen. If you want to throw your vote away on a non-candidate, that's your right, but it makes about as much sense burning your money so no one else can get their hands on it.
    Last edited by since9; 04-24-2012 at 05:14 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    The premise is that President Obama has sh*t on the Constitution; I reject that premise.
    You've gotta be joking...

    Here is a list of some of the unconstitutional actions of President Barack Obama:

    - You (as in he, Obama) signed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. But now we can see that the administration's trillion-dollar stimulus plan clearly is not working. Both the Constitution and history are witnesses that testify that the Stimulus Plan is both a federal usurpation of power and economically misguided. It may very well cause another "catastrophe."

    - You promised that this plan would create jobs immediately and keep the unemployment rate below eight percent. We are now at about 9.5% without including those who are no longer counted due to the length of their unemployment. Americans are asking, "Where are the jobs?" With 14.6 million people officially jobless, 5.9 million who have stopped looking but say they want a job, and 8.5 million who are working part time but would like to work full time, you end up with nearly 30 million Americans who cannot find the work they want and desperately need. The ARRA is primarily designed not to stimulate the economy, but to build the size and scope of government. Government spending plans do not stimulate the economy. They are based on the idea that feeding "new" money into the economy will create economic growth. But the money isn't new—it's either taxed or borrowed. It's essentially redistributed from one group of people to another, and no new money is created. And also, State governors, looking down the gun barrel of long-term spending forced on them by your "stimulus" plan, are saying they will refuse to take the money. This is a Constitutional confrontation between the federal government and the states unlike any in our time.

    - You signed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act into law. The federal government is now forcing Americans to buy health insurance. Even with the disapproval of the American majority you pushed through what we call "Obamacare." Over 20 states are now suing the federal government over your health care reform law. This law began the process to socialize America's health care system. It forces Americans to buy health insurance from a private company against our will.

    - You appointed over thirty Czars without any Congressional oversight to control every aspect of the country.

    - You intervened in the troubled automotive industry, renewing loans for General Motors and Chrysler Corporation to continue operations while reorganizing. Over the following months the White House set terms for both firms' bankruptcies, including reorganization of GM giving the U.S. government a temporary 60% equity stake in the company. Where in the Constitution does it say the government can do that?

    - You signed into law the popular Car Allowance Rebate System, known popularly as "Cash for Clunkers." In the middle of our country's worst financial crisis you give out freebees with taxpayer dollars?

    - You used your executive powers to shakedown British Petroleum after the oil leak catastrophe in the Gulf to create the $20-billion escrow (slush!) fund without any law, legal controls, or binding rules to guide it on how and how much those injured materially by the oil spill (and whom among them) will be paid.

    - You believe that the Constitution is a living, breathing document. I thought that the only way to change the Constitution was to amend it? It's not all your fault, Mr. President. If Congress and the Supreme Court did their job properly you would have been checked and balanced.

    Don't get me started on the NLRB, his comments dismissing the Supreme Court before they've even made a decision on Obamacare and his often-stated intent to illegally bypass Congress altogether. Obama is BY FAR the most un-Constitutional President our nation has ever seen!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  23. #23
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    This thread is blatant fishing for attention. Beretta92FSLady has found a ready and willing audience, here, to give her the attention and drama she craves. Don't feed the beast. Just ignore her.

  24. #24
    Regular Member gunns's Avatar
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    I wasn't going to get into this but since someone said they were going to vote for Obama I just can't help myself. I don't think we have had an honest president since Carter and he was a terrible president. But at least Carter can claim he wasn't the worse president now. I don't think O kept any of his promises except health care. Though the health care we got was NOT reform, but a bigger fiasco then what was available before. Real reform would have been forcing the drug companies to get their cost of R&D on all drugs sold, not just those sold in the U.S. Also open up country wide competition for health care companies, etc, etc.

    Everything else was a lie, the biggest liar I have ever seen who ran for President. Just a few, that cost us hundreds of billions and trillions over the next few years. "Shovel Ready", "Health care will be televised (Pelosi - have to pass it to know whats in it), "I never said that we should try to go ahead and get single-payer", "I've done more for Israel's security then any other president ever (tell that to Israel)", "the fence between Mex and US is nearly complete", on and on and on. I would need 10 pages to print them all.

    I don't see any honest American can vote for him. He has people working for him that want the cost of living to increase in the U.S. so we come on par with the rest of the world. That will destroy us. He is the first President in History that claimed he would try to increase gas prices on par with Europe. He is succeeding. France is the size of Iowa, we are much larger and our driving to and from work is much greater, this has a significant impact on the standard of living which he has no idea about.

    At least Romney made his own money, ran businesses and actually contributed to society other than public service. Still don't trust him but it about the devil you know versus the devil you really know.

  25. #25
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    +1. I had thought this tired, old argument about no-vote=no complain was put to rest years ago.

    Whether I vote or not has no bearing on my right to complain. I have a First Amendment right to petition for redress of grievances. It is not limited to voters. All I need in order to rightfully complain is to be 1. alive (unalienable rights), and 2. encroached or infringed.
    VOTING IS YOUR BIGGEST FIRST ADMENDMENT RIGHT.

    I personally think it is a responsibility and not just a right.

    You say you are not going to vote but yet complain. If your to lazy to vote then don't but that is saying that you don't care in my book. I have been in 3 wars for the USA and been to many countries where people don't get to vote; we are lucky we get a voice and the VOTE is the BIGGEST VOICE any of us has.

    If you vote for Romney but want to vote for Ron Paul only because you think Ron has no chance then maybe you shouldn't vote. This is why we have the crooks in office it is because people don't think there vote counts or are just to lazy.

    When I hear people complain and I ask them who they voted for, if they say Obama or they didn't vote I just walk away because all they are is complaining they did NOTHING to TRY and change things. They are along for the ride and didn't pay for the ticket by voting.

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