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Richmond City Council officially anti-gun

Repeater

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Richmond, Virginia, USA
Last night, Councilman Samuels followed through on his intent to ban any discharge of a firearm anywhere within city limits, even when on your own private property. The vote was unanimous:

Ordinance no: 2012-55-39. Vote: 9-0.

Sec. 66-342. - Willfully discharging firearms [strike]in public places[/strike].

If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm [strike]in any street in the city or in any place of public business or place of public gathering[/strike] anywhere within the city limits, such person shall be guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor. However, this section shall not apply to the discharge of firearms (i) by any law enforcement officer in the performance of official duties [strike]nor to[/strike] , (ii) by any [strike]other[/strike] person whose willful act is otherwise justifiable or excusable at law in the protection of such person's life [strike]or property[/strike] or is otherwise specifically authorized by law, ...[blah blah blah].

(Code 1993, § 20-147)

Cross References: Streets, sidewalks and public ways, ch. 90.

State Law References: Similar provisions, Code of Virginia, § 18.2-280.

Note in particular the willful deletion of "or property" which is contrary to the Code of Virginia, § 18.2-280 D.

Evidently, the Rule of Law and Dillon's Rule don't matter.
 
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Grapeshot

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[h=2]Richmond City Council officially anti-gun! Please say it isn't so, I had such high hopes for them.

Ask any member of the city council who Dillon is and I bet you are met with a blank stare. I am sure that since it is their city, they'll just say it's their law. They continue to show their disdain for the rule of law.
[/h]
 

Repeater

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What about indoor shooting ranges? Are there currently any within the city limits of Richmond?

This...

Hah hah.

Because the language of the ordinance does not respect private property, the term "within" would apply on and within your private property, so discharge of a weapon inside a building, including a range, would be a crime.
 

Grapeshot

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This...

Hah hah.

Because the language of the ordinance does not respect private property, the term "within" would apply on and within your private property, so discharge of a weapon inside a building, including a range, would be a crime.

[strike]That[/strike] This is more than funny. :lol:

Wonder if they want to be a test case? :banana:
 

TFred

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According to Google, the shooting range is outside the city limits.

TFred

ETA: Can't figure out how to get a meaningful link, but go here:

http://virginia.hometownlocator.com/maps/

Select Henrico in the pull-down box in the upper right hand corner, then type in the address of the range:

6020 West Broad Street, Richmond, VA

in the search box, and you will see that it's in the county.
 
Last edited:

67GT390FB

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Richmond, Virginia, USA
This...

Hah hah.

Because the language of the ordinance does not respect private property, the term "within" would apply on and within your private property, so discharge of a weapon inside a building, including a range, would be a crime.

mailing address may be richmond but physical city limits are several blocks east near broad and staples mill.
 

Repeater

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Well, you're right

According to Google, the shooting range is outside the city limits.

TFred

ETA: Can't figure out how to get a meaningful link, but go here:

http://virginia.hometownlocator.com/maps/

Select Henrico in the pull-down box in the upper right hand corner, then type in the address of the range:

6020 West Broad Street, Richmond, VA

in the search box, and you will see that it's in the county.

I should have confirmed with this dandy mapper:

http://map.richmondgov.com/parcel/

The city does have some nifty GIS tools.
 

Repeater

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Richmond, Virginia, USA
The whole thing does beg the question, did they even bother to check on whether there are any businesses that would be hurt by this?

TFred

Good question. It appears the final vote is scheduled on May 29, 2012.

A rationale for this appears in today's Times-Dispatch:
Ban on discharging guns approved

After a discussion that saw some contentious comments from some residents who thought the council was trying to limit gun rights, a measure passed unanimously that would ban most discharges of firearms within the city limits.

The ordinance by 2nd District Councilman Charles R. Samuels changed the language of the city code to ban discharging firearms with the exception of law enforcement officers in the performance of official duties; individuals acting lawfully "in the protection of such person's life"; military or law enforcement as part of authorized training, a funeral or a non-holiday or holiday salute; or when using blank ammunition for a theatrical performance or sporting event. It was especially intended to ban discharges on private property, such as people shooting into the air on holidays.

After several angry comments from residents, Samuels stressed the law would not limit the right of gun owners to defend themselves.

"You just have to believe in a few things, that randomly shooting your gun in the air is a bad idea, and gravity," said Councilman Chris Hilbert of the 3rd District. "It's dangerous and reckless."

Of course, the actual language would do a whole lot more than discharging a firearm into the air. But no worries: Michael Herring reviewed the draft and approved it, so it must be okay:

Richmond proposal would restrict firing guns in city
Samuels said the request to tighten the language came from Richmond police and the commonwealth's attorney's office. Though a state statute prohibits reckless handling of firearms, the new ordinance would ensure police have an additional tool to charge offenders, Samuels said.

"It closes a loophole in the way the Richmond ordinance is written," he said.

Richmond Commonwealth's Attorney Michael Herring said he has reviewed a draft of the amended ordinance and agrees with the wording.

"The state code did not prohibit discharges not aimed at people or buildings on private property," Herring wrote in an email. "The revised version is consistent with ordinances of neighboring jurisdictions and should reduce the number of open-air discharges during holidays or on other, less-predictable, occasions. Random gunfire is dangerous, period. And we all know that accidents happen. Accidents with guns, however, are often tragic."

Gee, swell.
 

VApatriot

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"It was especially intended to ban discharges on private property, such as people shooting into the air on holidays."

What was wrong with just enforcing this code?

§ 18.2-56.1. Reckless handling of firearms; reckless handling while hunting.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to handle recklessly any firearm so as to endanger the life, limb or property of any person. Any person violating this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

Or how about this one?

§ 18.2-280. Willfully discharging firearms in public places.

A. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm in any street in a city or town, or in any place of public business or place of public gathering, and such conduct results in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. If such conduct does not result in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

B. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon the buildings and grounds of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in a program or curriculum sponsored by or conducted with permission of a public, private or religious school.

C. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon any public property within 1,000 feet of the property line of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school property he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in lawful hunting.

D. This section shall not apply to any law-enforcement officer in the performance of his official duties nor to any other person whose said willful act is otherwise justifiable or excusable at law in the protection of his life or property, or is otherwise specifically authorized by law.

E. Nothing in this statute shall preclude the Commonwealth from electing to prosecute under any other applicable provision of law instead of this section."

"After several angry comments from residents, Samuels stressed the law would not limit the right of gun owners to defend themselves.

Clear BS on that one. Why did they strike "or property" from the ordinance?
 

skidmark

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.... Ask any member of the city council who Dillon is and I bet you are met with a blank stare.

I'll take that bet, at any odds you want to give.

I'm betting that they will all say Dillon was the marshal of Dodge City in the TV show "Gunsmoke".:p

stay safe.
 

Grapeshot

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quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Grapeshot

.... Ask any member of the city council who Dillon is and I bet you are met with a blank stare.

I'll take that bet, at any odds you want to give.

I'm betting that they will all say Dillon was the marshal of Dodge City in the TV show "Gunsmoke".:p

stay safe.

Thank you Mr. Frack :lol:
 

peter nap

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It is my understanding that Virginia does not allow the use of deadly force in the protection of property.

TFred

It doesn't allow the use of deadly force against humans TFred.

Remember, this is a "Thou shall not fire your gun" ordnance and there are many instances, even in Cities, where animals commit depredations against property and can be legally killed.
 

Grapeshot

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It is my understanding that Virginia does not allow the use of deadly force in the protection of property.

TFred

[SIZE=+1]In Montgomery v. Commonwealth, 98 Va. 840, 842-43, 36 S.E. 371, 372 (1900), we said:[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]The law is clearly stated by a learned judge in State v. Morgan, 3 Ired. 186, 38 Am. Dec. 714, as follows: "When it is said that a man may rightfully use as much force as is necessary for the protection of his person and property, it should be recollected that this rule is subject to this most important modification, that he shall not, except in extreme cases, endanger human life or do great bodily harm. It is not every right of person, and still less of property, that can lawfully be asserted, or every wrong that may rightfully be redressed by extreme remedies.
[/SIZE]
http://www.virginia1774.org/Page5.html[SIZE=+1]
[/SIZE]
 

T Dubya

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Richmond, Va, ,
What about indoor shooting ranges? Are there currently any within the city limits of Richmond?

Just the police academy unless the feds have a super secret range.

Fun fact there was a shooting range under the Landmark Theatre. It's dusty and dirty, but last I saw the shooting lanes were still there.
 

Grapeshot

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--snip--

Fun fact there was a shooting range under the Landmark Theatre. It's dusty and dirty, but last I saw the shooting lanes were still there.

I knew there was a swimming pool there, but never have heard of a range - do tell more.
 

ryan7068

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Chesapeake, VA
Shooting practice

God forbid Richmond allows all these pistol toten gun nuts to get some practice in with their firearms. Before you know it, we'll be shooting as poorly as LEOs. :D
 

Repeater

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Richmond, Virginia, USA
It is my understanding that Virginia does not allow the use of deadly force in the protection of property.

TFred

Well, it does here:
D. This section shall not apply to any law-enforcement officer in the performance of his official duties nor to any other person whose said willful act is otherwise justifiable or excusable at law in the protection of his life or property, or is otherwise specifically authorized by law.
 
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