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OC Everett Mall Response to Complaint

Knowledge

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Messages
108
Location
Everett, WA
Will,

I would like to talk with you about your comment card that I received in regards to the open carry at the mall. Please let me know when would be a good time to call you to discuss.

Thank you,

AJ Werfelmann
Assistant General Manager
Everett Mall

A brief backdrop to what led to this; I went to the mall with my wife and when I was in the dressing room two mall security guards asked me to leave because I was OCing. They gave me the option to put it in my car, which is what I ended up doing. I didn't ask for the policy. A few days later, after trying to find it on the website, I went to the information desk and specifically asked for the rules. I was given nothing but some pitiful mumbo-jumbo about interpretation of the code of conduct. I asked if there were any other lawful acts I should refrain from to be accepted in the mall. So the security guard just walked off. From the sounds of it The AGM wants to call and speak so perhaps I'll record it or I'll try to keep it going through email to keep it for record purposes. Any suggestions on a good way to handle this would be appreciated thanks.
 

skiingislife725

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
400
Location
Lake Stevens, WA
Either way, I'm guessing the AGM is going to try and tell you that "it's unnecessary to your shopping" and that that's just the way their policy is. Probably a lot like how Costco puts it. Maybe keep it to an email so that you can explain your viewpoint better (and not be going back and forth on the phone). You could also mention you'd like the discussion kept on email so that you can pass along the regs to other gun owners so that they can be informed/possibly shop elsewhere (without turning it into a threat that you'll shop elsewhere). My 2c.
 

Knowledge

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Messages
108
Location
Everett, WA
Either way, I'm guessing the AGM is going to try and tell you that "it's unnecessary to your shopping" and that that's just the way their policy is. Probably a lot like how Costco puts it. Maybe keep it to an email so that you can explain your viewpoint better (and not be going back and forth on the phone). You could also mention you'd like the discussion kept on email so that you can pass along the regs to other gun owners so that they can be informed/possibly shop elsewhere (without turning it into a threat that you'll shop elsewhere). My 2c.

I had a lot of the same feelings. I'm not expecting a "real" explanation, just a bias perspective. I'll email Him back and ask to keep it within email so I can do as you suggested, pass along the information.
 

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
When it comes to a conversation be it phone beware of recording laws, and likely if the conversation goes south it will come down to he said she said.
Good idea to try and keep it written or at least a written response from them after your discussion.
 
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tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,326
Location
Roy, WA
Will,

I would like to talk with you about your comment card that I received in regards to the open carry at the mall. Please let me know when would be a good time to call you to discuss.

Thank you,

AJ Werfelmann
Assistant General Manager
Everett Mall

A brief backdrop to what led to this; I went to the mall with my wife and when I was in the dressing room two mall security guards asked me to leave because I was OCing. They gave me the option to put it in my car, which is what I ended up doing. I didn't ask for the policy. A few days later, after trying to find it on the website, I went to the information desk and specifically asked for the rules. I was given nothing but some pitiful mumbo-jumbo about interpretation of the code of conduct. I asked if there were any other lawful acts I should refrain from to be accepted in the mall. So the security guard just walked off. From the sounds of it The AGM wants to call and speak so perhaps I'll record it or I'll try to keep it going through email to keep it for record purposes. Any suggestions on a good way to handle this would be appreciated thanks.

To record on the phone would require their consent so be careful there.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
To record on the phone would require their consent so be careful there.
The consent can be an implied one too, they don't have to agree to being recorded as long as you inform them you are recording and that that is part of the recording. I went through this a few years ago the guy on the other side of the line refused to hang up but kept telling me I needed to stop recording, I told him his options were to keep talking, implying consent or hang up, eventually he kept talking but kept telling me he doesn't give consent.


[h=2]RCW 9.73.030[/h][h=1]Intercepting, recording, or divulging private communication — Consent required — Exceptions.[/h]
(3) Where consent by all parties is needed pursuant to this chapter, consent shall be considered obtained whenever one party has announced to all other parties engaged in the communication or conversation, in any reasonably effective manner, that such communication or conversation is about to be recorded or transmitted: PROVIDED, That if the conversation is to be recorded that said announcement shall also be recorded.
 

DCKilla

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
523
Location
Wet Side, WA
The consent can be an implied one too, they don't have to agree to being recorded as long as you inform them you are recording and that that is part of the recording. I went through this a few years ago the guy on the other side of the line refused to hang up but kept telling me I needed to stop recording, I told him his options were to keep talking, implying consent or hang up, eventually he kept talking but kept telling me he doesn't give consent.
Good to know, but what if my recorder is on all the time. When OCing my recorder is running. I pick up a lot of things when walking around.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Good to know, but what if my recorder is on all the time. When OCing my recorder is running. I pick up a lot of things when walking around.

That statute is specifically dealing with electronic communication.

If you are in public and the others you are recording have no expectation of privacy you are good to go.

I wouldn't worry about it even if something was whispered to you and you recorded it, just omit that part if you ever have to go to court.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Good to know, but what if my recorder is on all the time. When OCing my recorder is running. I pick up a lot of things when walking around.

That tempts me to do the same thing.

I would have to clear my recorder regularly then. I guess batteries are cheaper than attorneys.
Might have to get a second recorder though.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
That tempts me to do the same thing.

I would have to clear my recorder regularly then. I guess batteries are cheaper than attorneys.
Might have to get a second recorder though.

OLympus 8000, got the idea from FMHD, rechargable triple a last few days, and the recorder can record to 38 hrs. straight. Just delete it if something don' happen. I know use the folder option and if I think I am going to have an encounter I change the folder. I am now in the habit of recording all inter-reactions between public officials and upload it to comp with brief description on title with date.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
OLympus 8000, got the idea from FMHD, rechargable triple a last few days, and the recorder can record to 38 hrs. straight. Just delete it if something don' happen. I know use the folder option and if I think I am going to have an encounter I change the folder. I am now in the habit of recording all inter-reactions between public officials and upload it to comp with brief description on title with date.

Funny I carry the OLYMPUS WS-100.

I have a record of the Redmond court claiming that they have never accepted Federal Reserve Notes. I also have a letter from the head judge there claiming that she did not know what they were.
 

xxx.jakk.xxx

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
467
As for recording the call, I had a job in a call center and had to inform everyone that they were being recorded. The "All calls are recorded" when you answer the call usually work wells. People rarely notice what's been said, but it's been said. Also, if you're calling out, I found that "This is a recorded call for..." works great. It lets whoever is on the other end know and it lets you ask for the person.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
Not sure if this would apply to civilians. When I was in the Army I recorded almost every call coming in or out of my office. I did not inform anyone, but it was common knowledge that I was doing it. None of my recordings were used as recordings as the UCMJ (uniform code of military justice) does not allow them. I could, however, use a "conversation record". A written transcript of the recording. If my veracity, or accuracy, is called in question, then the recording could be entered as evidence to verify the paper transcript.
My question, Would this work here in the real world?
 

oneeyeross

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
500
Location
Winlock, , USA
question for the Mall Guy when you talk to him.


The Supreme Court has ruled that the right to defend oneself is a "fundamental human right," and that the handgun is the quintessential self defense weapon. (DC v Heller)

The Supreme Court has also ruled that, absent a special relationship, the police are not required to protect us. (DeShaney v. Winnebago County).

Therefore, if the police are not required to aid you, and the mall refuses to let you protect yourself, what are you to do for safety? Are they going to assume responsibility for the safety of you and your family, and be willing to defend them as necessary from any and all persons who might intend harm to you?

(We all know what they'll say, of course, but interesting questions...)
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
My question, Would this work here in the real world?

Yes and no, depends on the state.

Federal law is one-party consent. So as long as you know the recording is being made on your end, it's legal to record anyone you're on the phone with, whether you notify them or not. The same applies to states with one-party consent laws.

Washington is what is called a two-party consent state, but actual state law would better be described as all-party consent. All people being recorded over the phone must be made aware of the recording (failure to make such a notification is a crime), and continuing to speak after such a notification is consent (even if they explicitly verbally refuse you permission to record). Illegal recordings are not only not admissible in court, they are in themselves evidence of a crime being committed (by whoever made them).

I have a record of the Redmond court claiming that they have never accepted Federal Reserve Notes. I also have a letter from the head judge there claiming that she did not know what they were.

That's hilarious. I know that if a private creditor refuses payment in legal tender, it discharges the debt. Is the same true if a government creditor refuses legal tender payment?
 
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BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
That's hilarious. I know that if a private creditor refuses payment in legal tender, it discharges the debt.

Why do people want to spread these myths without even looking into it?
We often here of such things with firearms laws still today and we have easy access to the information.

If you are going to state it, cite it please.
 
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