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Thread: attacked at walgreens

  1. #1
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    attacked at walgreens

    well i was in leesburg today and I went to walgreens on battlefield parkway and I went to buy myself some stuff around 3 pm. I bought a couple of personal items and said thank you and went out the door as I go out the door I had a homeless lady charge me and scream f### off fu## off! I couldn't see if she had a weapon in her hands so immediately I ran backwards and by reflex I wanted to draw my weapon but I didn't see a weapon so I didn't draw. I retreated into the store looking for help but clearly everyone didn't really care not to mention that once the homeless lady saw other people, she stopped and walked into the store. Furthermore, I forgot my phone and I proceeded to flag down a loudoun county sherriff I saw in front of the store but he didn't see me and then I got in my car and then saw another LCSO and I drove up next to him and told him what happened he took note of what happened and then for some reason went in the opposite direction of the store I was assaulted at. Well I went home told my friends what happened and I then called leesburg police because I wanted something to be done about this person. Well I called and they told me this person was the common crazy homeless lady of the neighborhood and she has had run ins with the law. I asked if I was allowed to use mace in this case at the very least and they stated I probably had to wait until the confrontation became more physical.

    Any thoughts on this? my questions are the following

    1. what if she had a knife that I didn't see and she was charging at me within 21 feet? I am still wondering how things would have gone if i wasn't so quick on my feet. She may have had a knife in her hand and I was just lucky that I was quicker than her to get away.

    2. why didn't the police LCSO and leesburg police follow up with me to let me know what happened after I reported the incident after 5 minutes? Why did they act like it wasn't a big deal?

    3. why do I have to wait to visually see a weapon before I draw my weapon even thougth the person charged me in this case and was using an close proximity surprise attack to get the upper advantage on me.

    Shouldn't there be a clause in virginia law that if assailant uses a surprise attack on a victim you are allowed to use deadly force if they assaulted you in any form of malicious manner?
    Last edited by opencarrypalmtrees; 04-24-2012 at 06:39 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    I'd definitely mace her if she was screaming and charging at me. You never know how mentally stable the homeless are, and she could have easily pulled a hidden knife.


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  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opencarrypalmtrees View Post
    well i was in leesburg today and I went to walgreens on battlefield parkway and I went to buy myself some stuff around 3 pm. I bought a couple of personal items and said thank you and went out the door as I go out the door I had a homeless lady charge me and scream f### off fu## off! I couldn't see if she had a weapon in her hands so immediately I ran backwards and by reflex I wanted to draw my weapon but I didn't see a weapon so I didn't draw. I retreated into the store looking for help but clearly everyone didn't really care not to mention that once the homeless lady saw other people, she stopped and walked into the store. Furthermore, I forgot my phone and I proceeded to flag down a loudoun county sherriff I saw in front of the store but he didn't see me and then I got in my car and then saw another LCSO and I drove up next to him and told him what happened he took note of what happened and then for some reason went in the opposite direction of the store I was assaulted at. Well I went home told my friends what happened and I then called leesburg police because I wanted something to be done about this person. Well I called and they told me this person was the common crazy homeless lady of the neighborhood and she has had run ins with the law. I asked if I was allowed to use mace in this case at the very least and they stated I probably had to wait until the confrontation became more physical.

    Any thoughts on this? my questions are the following

    1. what if she had a knife that I didn't see and she was charging at me within 21 feet? I am still wondering how things would have gone if i wasn't so quick on my feet. She may have had a knife in her hand and I was just lucky that I was quicker than her to get away.

    2. why didn't the police LCSO and leesburg police follow up with me to let me know what happened after I reported the incident after 5 minutes? Why did they act like it wasn't a big deal?

    3. why do I have to wait to visually see a weapon before I draw my weapon even thougth the person charged me in this case and was using an close proximity surprise attack to get the upper advantage on me.

    Shouldn't there be a clause in virginia law that if assailant uses a surprise attack on a victim you are allowed to use deadly force if they assaulted you in any form of malicious manner?


    For crying out loud...here we go again

    The police didn't help because they have better things to do than protect OC'ers from crazy old women who yell at people.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opencarrypalmtrees View Post
    .... my questions are the following

    1. what if she had a knife that I didn't see and she was charging at me within 21 feet? I am still wondering how things would have gone if i wasn't so quick on my feet. She may have had a knife in her hand and I was just lucky that I was quicker than her to get away. Is this enough to let me get away with shooting someone? Or at least clearing kydex?

    2. why didn't the police LCSO and leesburg police follow up with me to let me know what happened after I reported the incident after 5 minutes? Because tthat's not part of the drill. You need to fill out the proper forms and submit them in order to be told that they will not release information concening investigations. Why did they act like it wasn't a big deal? Because not releasing information is really a pretty routine, everyday thing. Oh! You mean why did they not treat the crazy lady yelling at you as a big thing? Probably because since they have to deal with her every day it is no big thing to them.

    3. why do I have to wait to visually see a weapon before I draw my weapon even thougth the person charged me in this case and was using an close proximity surprise attack to get the upper advantage on me. Because the law only excuses or justifies the use of deadly force against imminent threats of death or great bodily harm. Please refer to first comment above, mkay?

    Shouldn't there be a clause in virginia law that if assailant uses a surprise attack on a victim you are allowed to use deadly force if they assaulted you in any form of malicious manner? Do you mean "Why, oh why, can't I clear kydex because I'm startled?" Please see comment immediately above and the first comment.
    I have been in situations that might be considered similar, so I think I know how you felt. But the fact of the matter is that IMHO drawing is the last thing you want to do. Many say that if you draw you "ought to" go ahead and pull the trigger because stopping before you pull the trigger is an admission that the threat of death or great bodily harm was not imminent. I'll leave you to decide that one on your own.

    Some of us have been around the barn enough times that we see questions like this as more "Can I? Can I? Can I?" than "Anybody got some decent advice on how to better handle something like this if there is ever a next time?" If you meant the latter rather than the former, please consider rewording you question if you ever ask anything like that again. If nothing else it will stop me from going off on a rant.

    stay safe.
    Last edited by skidmark; 04-24-2012 at 09:21 PM. Reason: typos. darned typos.
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  5. #5
    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
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    Good time for a taser.

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    This is a place I would want to have pepper spray if she kept on coming. I know you were scared (I sure would have been), but you did the right thing by backing off. Good thinking.

  7. #7
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    We've got a couple "frequent LEO flyers" in my work area. The LEO didn't go to check her out because:

    1. He has done it a hundred times.
    2. She's crazy.
    3. He's sick of her.
    4. The Magistrate is sick of her.
    5. The Judge is sick of her.
    6. The jail is sick of her.
    7. The Sheriff/Chief is sick of her.
    8. They all hope she will die or move before she does something so bad they HAVE to process her.
    9. Social services is sick of her.
    10. She not crazy enough to be institutionalized.

    She basically has LEO immunity as long as she doesn't go full crazy.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The use of deadly force or less deadly force is hardly justified by the "what if" process.

    It worked out well - no harm nor foul.

    Avoiding confrontation or withdrawing may not be mandated, but it certainly has merit in many instances.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Taser/Mace
    This is why I carry a mace. A backup to defuse a problem without deadly force if needed.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 04-25-2012 at 10:44 AM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  10. #10
    Regular Member ryan7068's Avatar
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    Do the Handgun Chop!

    Quote Originally Posted by virginia law View Post
    It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense.
    If no retreat was possible I'd say at least drawing your weapon would be an option to deter her from further advancing. In that instance many handguns can be used as a blunt oject to strike someone as well. You wouldn't wanna overdo it by shooting a unarmed woman. I've heard that can cause some serious legal issues

    I did see your post though Skidmark, and that may very well be true. No one can really tell you what you should do because it ultimately comes down to what you are comfortable doing. I guarentee that if things get bad enough, that pistol will be getting pulled. And if it gets pulled there was probably a reason to use it.
    Last edited by ryan7068; 04-25-2012 at 11:56 AM.
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    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan7068 View Post
    If no retreat was possible I'd say at least drawing your weapon would be an option to deter her from further advancing. In that instance many handguns can be used as a blunt oject to strike someone as well. You wouldn't wanna overdo it by shooting a unarmed woman. I've heard that can cause some serious legal issues

    I did see your post though Skidmark, and that may very well be true. No one can really tell you what you should do because it ultimately comes down to what you are comfortable doing. I guarentee that if things get bad enough, that pistol will be getting pulled. And if it gets pulled there was probably a reason to use it.
    I must have missed the memo that said hands and feet were not deadly weapons, or the fact that I am carrying a firearm, and if it was wrestled away from my possesion could be used against myself of others. In any conflict that becomes physical, I would have a reasonable fear that my life is in jeopardy... wouldn't you?
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
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    Regular Member ryan7068's Avatar
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    It depends!

    Like I said, to each there own. If a five year old girl started punching my thigh, probably not. If a 6foot 7in tall 350lb man went to take a swing, your damn skippy I'd be in fear for my life.
    Last edited by ryan7068; 04-25-2012 at 12:02 PM.
    "Yes, I am carrying a loaded firearm. Why aren't you? "

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt_Kowalski View Post
    I must have missed the memo that said hands and feet were not deadly weapons, or the fact that I am carrying a firearm, and if it was wrestled away from my possesion could be used against myself of others. In any conflict that becomes physical, I would have a reasonable fear that my life is in jeopardy... wouldn't you?
    Neither hands nor feet are so defined as deadly weapons in the Code of Virginia.

    No - too broad a statement/question.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt_Kowalski View Post
    I must have missed the memo that said hands and feet were not deadly weapons, or the fact that I am carrying a firearm, and if it was wrestled away from my possesion could be used against myself of others. In any conflict that becomes physical, I would have a reasonable fear that my life is in jeopardy... wouldn't you?
    NO!
    I also didn't see where she attacked him. She yelled f**& off.
    I do that about ten times a week. It's my of being friendly to city people.



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    Regular Member pyite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    For crying out loud...here we go again

    The police didn't help because they have better things to do than protect OC'ers from crazy old women who yell at people.
    This.

    OP didnt get attacked or assaulted. OP got yelled at. Get over it.
    Last edited by pyite; 04-25-2012 at 02:36 PM.

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Perhaps she is a member here and is just fed up with his wall-of-text posts, run-on sentences, and what-if fantasies.


  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    Perhaps she is a member here and is just fed up with his wall-of-text posts, run-on sentences, and what-if fantasies.

    +1,000,000,000,000,000,000

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    Perhaps she is a member here and is just fed up with his wall-of-text posts, run-on sentences, and what-if fantasies.

    Dang, I knew the grammar police, were going catch up with him.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    When these what if and can I kill them, posts start, I try to remember a line from a movie (Armed and Dangerous I think).

    If he's lying, and I know he's lying and he knows I know he's lying....can I shoot him?
    Last edited by peter nap; 04-25-2012 at 07:29 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    The OP didn't get attacked... he got yelled at by a nut. Get over it.

  21. #21
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Yell back at her. Shout "No, you f**k off". Like I've said before, there seem to be some who are just looking for an excuse to shoot another human being. It's a last resort, not a first option. Should I have drawn and shot the dumbass who was pointing his Glock at me at the range on Sunday, or was shouting at him "don't you dare point that f**king gun at me" enough of a response?

  22. #22
    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Before you become the next bullet point on an anti-gunner powerpoint presentation please do us all a favor:

    Take firearm
    Put firearm in a drawer
    close drawer
    Read up on all Commonwealth of VA laws pertaining to firearms
    Read an article or two on applicability of use of deadly force
    Read them all a 2nd time.
    Take a Dan Hawes course (Name is "user" on these forums)

    Then you should be alright to continue to carry. Until that time, you are a walking timebomb of idiocy and your potential for unadvised actions will serve no better purpose than to be the fuel for anti-firearm propaganda and the press. An action, which should you undertake will be all they need and will point at in advance of the next legislative session and scream "There, that is exactly what we told you all would happen!".
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Hey! Let's not rough the OP.

    He had the sense to ask if he could have done certain things which we have pointed out to him were both not lawful and for various and sundry reasons ill-considered bordering on stupid.

    He's not come back with a laundry list of why, even if we are all correct, he should be (have been) allowed to go ahead and shoot the allegedly crazy lady. (Maybe the OP was doing something for which he should have been told to "f### off fu## off!" - but I have my doubts.)

    The OP has a history here of posting some rather outlandish scenarion questions, as well as generally not coming back to let us know he has read any of the responses let alone that he accepts the offered wisdom and guidance. To his credit it appears from nothing better than a lack of news stories that he has followed our counsel.

    In spite of the lack of direct response, it remains good that we continue to respond to his outlandish "what-if" questions if only to document for the record that we are not willing to allow, let alone advocate, unlawful rash behavior.

    stay safe.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  24. #24
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    If the OPer is old enough to carry he should be old enough to wear long britches.

    ....homeless woman....sheesh....
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    I just toss burning cigarettes at the feet of the homeless.

    This distracts them long enough for me to escape.

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