attacked at walgreens

opencarrypalmtrees · Apr 24, 2012

well i was in leesburg today and I went to walgreens on battlefield parkway and I went to buy myself some stuff around 3 pm. I bought a couple of personal items and said thank you and went out the door as I go out the door I had a homeless lady charge me and scream f### off fu## off! I couldn't see if she had a weapon in her hands so immediately I ran backwards and by reflex I wanted to draw my weapon but I didn't see a weapon so I didn't draw. I retreated into the store looking for help but clearly everyone didn't really care not to mention that once the homeless lady saw other people, she stopped and walked into the store. Furthermore, I forgot my phone and I proceeded to flag down a loudoun county sherriff I saw in front of the store but he didn't see me and then I got in my car and then saw another LCSO and I drove up next to him and told him what happened he took note of what happened and then for some reason went in the opposite direction of the store I was assaulted at. Well I went home told my friends what happened and I then called leesburg police because I wanted something to be done about this person. Well I called and they told me this person was the common crazy homeless lady of the neighborhood and she has had run ins with the law. I asked if I was allowed to use mace in this case at the very least and they stated I probably had to wait until the confrontation became more physical.

Any thoughts on this? my questions are the following

1. what if she had a knife that I didn't see and she was charging at me within 21 feet? I am still wondering how things would have gone if i wasn't so quick on my feet. She may have had a knife in her hand and I was just lucky that I was quicker than her to get away.

2. why didn't the police LCSO and leesburg police follow up with me to let me know what happened after I reported the incident after 5 minutes? Why did they act like it wasn't a big deal?

3. why do I have to wait to visually see a weapon before I draw my weapon even thougth the person charged me in this case and was using an close proximity surprise attack to get the upper advantage on me.

Shouldn't there be a clause in virginia law that if assailant uses a surprise attack on a victim you are allowed to use deadly force if they assaulted you in any form of malicious manner?

MainelyGlock · Apr 24, 2012

I'd definitely mace her if she was screaming and charging at me. You never know how mentally stable the homeless are, and she could have easily pulled a hidden knife.

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peter nap · Apr 24, 2012

opencarrypalmtrees said:
well i was in leesburg today and I went to walgreens on battlefield parkway and I went to buy myself some stuff around 3 pm. I bought a couple of personal items and said thank you and went out the door as I go out the door I had a homeless lady charge me and scream f### off fu## off! I couldn't see if she had a weapon in her hands so immediately I ran backwards and by reflex I wanted to draw my weapon but I didn't see a weapon so I didn't draw. I retreated into the store looking for help but clearly everyone didn't really care not to mention that once the homeless lady saw other people, she stopped and walked into the store. Furthermore, I forgot my phone and I proceeded to flag down a loudoun county sherriff I saw in front of the store but he didn't see me and then I got in my car and then saw another LCSO and I drove up next to him and told him what happened he took note of what happened and then for some reason went in the opposite direction of the store I was assaulted at. Well I went home told my friends what happened and I then called leesburg police because I wanted something to be done about this person. Well I called and they told me this person was the common crazy homeless lady of the neighborhood and she has had run ins with the law. I asked if I was allowed to use mace in this case at the very least and they stated I probably had to wait until the confrontation became more physical.

Any thoughts on this? my questions are the following

1. what if she had a knife that I didn't see and she was charging at me within 21 feet? I am still wondering how things would have gone if i wasn't so quick on my feet. She may have had a knife in her hand and I was just lucky that I was quicker than her to get away.

2. why didn't the police LCSO and leesburg police follow up with me to let me know what happened after I reported the incident after 5 minutes? Why did they act like it wasn't a big deal?

3. why do I have to wait to visually see a weapon before I draw my weapon even thougth the person charged me in this case and was using an close proximity surprise attack to get the upper advantage on me.

Shouldn't there be a clause in virginia law that if assailant uses a surprise attack on a victim you are allowed to use deadly force if they assaulted you in any form of malicious manner?

For crying out loud...here we go again:uhoh::uhoh:

The police didn't help because they have better things to do than protect OC'ers from crazy old women who yell at people.

skidmark · Apr 24, 2012

opencarrypalmtrees said:
.... my questions are the following

1. what if she had a knife that I didn't see and she was charging at me within 21 feet? I am still wondering how things would have gone if i wasn't so quick on my feet. She may have had a knife in her hand and I was just lucky that I was quicker than her to get away. Is this enough to let me get away with shooting someone? Or at least clearing kydex?

2. why didn't the police LCSO and leesburg police follow up with me to let me know what happened after I reported the incident after 5 minutes? Because tthat's not part of the drill. You need to fill out the proper forms and submit them in order to be told that they will not release information concening investigations. Why did they act like it wasn't a big deal? Because not releasing information is really a pretty routine, everyday thing. Oh! You mean why did they not treat the crazy lady yelling at you as a big thing? Probably because since they have to deal with her every day it is no big thing to them.

3. why do I have to wait to visually see a weapon before I draw my weapon even thougth the person charged me in this case and was using an close proximity surprise attack to get the upper advantage on me. Because the law only excuses or justifies the use of deadly force against imminent threats of death or great bodily harm. Please refer to first comment above, mkay?

Shouldn't there be a clause in virginia law that if assailant uses a surprise attack on a victim you are allowed to use deadly force if they assaulted you in any form of malicious manner? Do you mean "Why, oh why, can't I clear kydex because I'm startled?" Please see comment immediately above and the first comment.

I have been in situations that might be considered similar, so I think I know how you felt. But the fact of the matter is that IMHO drawing is the last thing you want to do. Many say that if you draw you "ought to" go ahead and pull the trigger because stopping before you pull the trigger is an admission that the threat of death or great bodily harm was not imminent. I'll leave you to decide that one on your own.

Some of us have been around the barn enough times that we see questions like this as more "Can I? Can I? Can I?" than "Anybody got some decent advice on how to better handle something like this if there is ever a next time?" If you meant the latter rather than the former, please consider rewording you question if you ever ask anything like that again. If nothing else it will stop me from going off on a rant.

stay safe.

jdholmes · Apr 24, 2012

Good time for a taser.

MamabearCali · Apr 24, 2012

This is a place I would want to have pepper spray if she kept on coming. I know you were scared (I sure would have been), but you did the right thing by backing off. Good thinking.

paramedic70002 · Apr 25, 2012

We've got a couple "frequent LEO flyers" in my work area. The LEO didn't go to check her out because:

1. He has done it a hundred times.
2. She's crazy.
3. He's sick of her.
4. The Magistrate is sick of her.
5. The Judge is sick of her.
6. The jail is sick of her.
7. The Sheriff/Chief is sick of her.
8. They all hope she will die or move before she does something so bad they HAVE to process her.
9. Social services is sick of her.
10. She not crazy enough to be institutionalized.

She basically has LEO immunity as long as she doesn't go full crazy.

Grapeshot · Apr 25, 2012

The use of deadly force or less deadly force is hardly justified by the "what if" process.

It worked out well - no harm nor foul.

Avoiding confrontation or withdrawing may not be mandated, but it certainly has merit in many instances.

ocholsteroc · Apr 25, 2012

Taser/Mace
This is why I carry a mace. A backup to defuse a problem without deadly force if needed.

ryan7068 · Apr 25, 2012

Do the Handgun Chop!

virginia law said:
It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense.

If no retreat was possible I'd say at least drawing your weapon would be an option to deter her from further advancing. In that instance many handguns can be used as a blunt oject to strike someone as well. You wouldn't wanna overdo it by shooting a unarmed woman. I've heard that can cause some serious legal issues

I did see your post though Skidmark, and that may very well be true. No one can really tell you what you should do because it ultimately comes down to what you are comfortable doing. I guarentee that if things get bad enough, that pistol will be getting pulled. And if it gets pulled there was probably a reason to use it.

Walt_Kowalski · Apr 25, 2012

ryan7068 said:
If no retreat was possible I'd say at least drawing your weapon would be an option to deter her from further advancing. In that instance many handguns can be used as a blunt oject to strike someone as well. You wouldn't wanna overdo it by shooting a unarmed woman. I've heard that can cause some serious legal issues

I did see your post though Skidmark, and that may very well be true. No one can really tell you what you should do because it ultimately comes down to what you are comfortable doing. I guarentee that if things get bad enough, that pistol will be getting pulled. And if it gets pulled there was probably a reason to use it.

I must have missed the memo that said hands and feet were not deadly weapons, or the fact that I am carrying a firearm, and if it was wrestled away from my possesion could be used against myself of others. In any conflict that becomes physical, I would have a reasonable fear that my life is in jeopardy... wouldn't you?

ryan7068 · Apr 25, 2012

It depends!

Like I said, to each there own. If a five year old girl started punching my thigh, probably not. If a 6foot 7in tall 350lb man went to take a swing, your damn skippy I'd be in fear for my life.

Grapeshot · Apr 25, 2012

Walt_Kowalski said:
I must have missed the memo that said hands and feet were not deadly weapons, or the fact that I am carrying a firearm, and if it was wrestled away from my possesion could be used against myself of others. In any conflict that becomes physical, I would have a reasonable fear that my life is in jeopardy... wouldn't you?

Neither hands nor feet are so defined as deadly weapons in the Code of Virginia.

No - too broad a statement/question.

peter nap · Apr 25, 2012

Walt_Kowalski said:
I must have missed the memo that said hands and feet were not deadly weapons, or the fact that I am carrying a firearm, and if it was wrestled away from my possesion could be used against myself of others. In any conflict that becomes physical, I would have a reasonable fear that my life is in jeopardy... wouldn't you?

NO!
I also didn't see where she attacked him. She yelled f**& off.
I do that about ten times a week. It's my of being friendly to city people.

pyite · Apr 25, 2012

peter nap said:
For crying out loud...here we go again:uhoh::uhoh:

The police didn't help because they have better things to do than protect OC'ers from crazy old women who yell at people.

This.

OP didnt get attacked or assaulted. OP got yelled at. Get over it.

DrMark · Apr 25, 2012

Perhaps she is a member here and is just fed up with his wall-of-text posts, run-on sentences, and what-if fantasies.

peter nap · Apr 25, 2012

DrMark said:
Perhaps she is a member here and is just fed up with his wall-of-text posts, run-on sentences, and what-if fantasies.

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000:lol:

ocholsteroc · Apr 25, 2012

DrMark said:
Perhaps she is a member here and is just fed up with his wall-of-text posts, run-on sentences, and what-if fantasies.

Dang, I knew the grammar police, were going catch up with him.

peter nap · Apr 25, 2012

When these what if and can I kill them, posts start, I try to remember a line from a movie (Armed and Dangerous I think).

If he's lying, and I know he's lying and he knows I know he's lying....can I shoot him?

Sonora Rebel · Apr 25, 2012

The OP didn't get attacked... he got yelled at by a nut. Get over it.

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