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Thread: Carry at the Fauquier County Sheriff's Office???

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    Carry at the Fauquier County Sheriff's Office???

    I noticed a brand new sign at the public entrance to the Fauquier County Sheriff's Office today. It states that no guns, knives or other weapons allowed. If I am correct, I thought even the sheriff's office was preempted by the state legislation. I am not sure if the magistrate is located in the building or in the trailer behind the building and would that make a difference?
    Last edited by Mailman; 04-25-2012 at 12:14 AM.

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    It should be. I had the Roanoke County Police Department remove the one they had in their lobby.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The law says no carry in "sensitive" areas - places where prisoners are routinely kept/found. This means that while the lobby area is OK, there may be some difficulty with offices and corridors as well as the more obvious prisoner holding areas.

    Generally those areas are marked so that LEOs do not inadverdantly bring a firearm into an area where some bad guy could take it away from them and use it to effect an escape. (And why, you ask, do LEOs need a sign reminding them where not to bring guns? Wait for it -- because someone once did bring a gun there!)

    The location of the Magistrate's ofice should have nothing to do with the sign that seemingly places the entire area "off limits" to guns, knives or other weapons.*

    Politely ask them to remove the sign - maybe even use one of those e-cards Ed likes to use which makes it easy to post here. Let us know what happens.

    stay safe.

    *What is up with that "knives, guns or other weapons" bit that LEOs seem to just love to use? Why can't/don't they just go with the generic "weapons"? They seem to be just as afraid of bazookas, thermonuclear bombs and outer space death rays as they are guns and knives, so why mention thosre two and then lump everything else together?
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    The law says no carry in "sensitive" areas - places where prisoners are routinely kept/found. This means that while the lobby area is OK, there may be some difficulty with offices and corridors as well as the more obvious prisoner holding areas.

    Generally those areas are marked so that LEOs do not inadverdantly bring a firearm into an area where some bad guy could take it away from them and use it to effect an escape. (And why, you ask, do LEOs need a sign reminding them where not to bring guns? Wait for it -- because someone once did bring a gun there!)

    The location of the Magistrate's ofice should have nothing to do with the sign that seemingly places the entire area "off limits" to guns, knives or other weapons.*

    Politely ask them to remove the sign - maybe even use one of those e-cards Ed likes to use which makes it easy to post here. Let us know what happens.

    stay safe.

    *What is up with that "knives, guns or other weapons" bit that LEOs seem to just love to use? Why can't/don't they just go with the generic "weapons"? They seem to be just as afraid of bazookas, thermonuclear bombs and outer space death rays as they are guns and knives, so why mention thosre two and then lump everything else together?
    its not the nukes or death rays that have them up at night its the nunchucks that they're afeared of.

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    I did check with one of the bail bonds people today and he confirmed that the magistrate's office is in a separate building behind the sheriff's office. Also, the jail/detention center is up the street from the sheriff's office.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mailman View Post
    I did check with one of the bail bonds people today and he confirmed that the magistrate's office is in a separate building behind the sheriff's office. Also, the jail/detention center is up the street from the sheriff's office.
    What about just calling the Sheriff and asking him about it?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Interesting question. There is no bigger fan of 15.2-915 than I am. A sheriff is not a locality, but a constitutional officer. Can a sheriff be considered an agent of a locality? Or perhaps it is covered by the third paragraph of Section A:

    "The provisions of this section applicable to a locality shall also apply to any authority or to a local governmental entity, including a department or agency, but not including any local or regional jail or juvenile detention facility."

    Would the sheriff's office be considered a Department?

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mailman View Post
    I noticed a brand new sign at the public entrance to the Fauquier County Sheriff's Office today. It states that no guns, knives or other weapons allowed. If I am correct, I thought even the sheriff's office was preempted by the state legislation. I am not sure if the magistrate is located in the building or in the trailer behind the building and would that make a difference?
    I would say the sign is a violation of the law.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: VA Gun Rights <vagunrights@gmail.com>
    Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:56 PM
    Subject: No "no guns, knives or other weapons allowed"?
    To: sheriff.fox@fauquiercounty.gov
    Cc: kevin.burke@fauquiercounty.gov


    Sheriff Fox -


    Hi.. It was brought to my attention that a new sign has been put up at the entrance to your office. This sign states "no guns, knives or other weapons allowed". That sign is in violation of 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.


    How soon can it be corrected or removed?


    Thanks,

    Ed Levine


    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Dang, Ed! Didn't even give the guy a chance to search out the e-cards and fire off one of his own.

    Not that I'm complaining about you picking up the ball - just that I'm not sure it was officially out of the OP's hands and therefore "loose" yet.

    stay safe.
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Dang, Ed! Didn't even give the guy a chance to search out the e-cards and fire off one of his own.

    Not that I'm complaining about you picking up the ball - just that I'm not sure it was officially out of the OP's hands and therefore "loose" yet.

    stay safe.
    I saw the OP's original post and saw the answer given by you, then I saw him further explain about checking with bail bonds people, etc. These things replicate like rabbits. If a town/municipality puts up a sign, they might also make signs for other of "their" other buildings. I think it is best to nip them in the bud. If the OP and others also contact them via phone, email, post, etc I think it is a good thing to let them know we, collectively, hold them accountable.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Dang, Ed! Didn't even give the guy a chance to search out the e-cards and fire off one of his own.

    Not that I'm complaining about you picking up the ball - just that I'm not sure it was officially out of the OP's hands and therefore "loose" yet.
    In my opinion, it shouldn't have to be handed off... there is no reason that Ed and the OP can't both send an email. If the local government is violating the law, a reasonable person would believe that more than one person could potentially be upset about it.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The thing that most amuses me about these kinds of situations is the fact that the offenders don't seem to ever take notice that there are no signs like this anywhere else in the city or county government. It's almost as if they one day said to themselves, "Eureka! I've had a splendid idea that NOBODY has ever thought of before! Let's put up a 'No Guns' sign here!" Without a clue or thought in the world of why that might actually be the case...



    TFred

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Doesn't bother me that Ed has a "fast draw." Sometimes I will be composing an e-mail or post and before ya know it, I am pre-empted. Bet he's a much better pistol shot than me, also.

    I agree with him to keep 'em honest as quickly and politely as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    Doesn't bother me that Ed has a "fast draw." Sometimes I will be composing an e-mail or post and before ya know it, I am pre-empted. Bet he's a much better pistol shot than me, also.

    I agree with him to keep 'em honest as quickly and politely as possible.
    Yep!

    It isn't a contest.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Sign removed

    Subject: Sign
    From: "Mercer, Paul" <Paul.Mercer@fauquiercounty.gov>
    To: "vagunrights@gmail.com" <vagunrights@gmail.com>
    CC: Sign

    Sir;

    The sign issue you brought to our attention has been addressed and the signs removed. I appreciate you bringing this to our attention, and allowing our agency to correct it.

    Sent from my iPhone

    Lt. Colonel Paul F. Mercer, Jr.
    Fauquier County Sheriff's Office
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    ed:

    Congratulations!

    It is Nice to Know that Virginia Law 15.2-915 is Properly Enforced by Sheriffs' who do NOT Allow Personal Opinions to get in The Way of Their Professional Duties!

    aadvark
    Last edited by aadvark; 04-26-2012 at 10:15 PM.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    In a message dated 4/26/2012 10:18:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Paul.Mercer@fauquiercounty.gov writes:
    No, thank you for making us aware of this.

    Sent from my iPhone

    Lt. Colonel Paul F. Mercer, Jr.
    Fauquier County Sheriff's Office




    On Apr 26, 2012, at 10:03 PM, "VA Gun Rights" <vagunrights@gmail.com> wrote:



    Thank you Colonel!


    Ed Levine

    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Regular Member Brian Reynolds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    In a message dated 4/26/2012 10:18:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Paul.Mercer@fauquiercounty.gov writes:
    No, thank you for making us aware of this.

    Sent from my iPhone

    Lt. Colonel Paul F. Mercer, Jr.
    Fauquier County Sheriff's Office




    On Apr 26, 2012, at 10:03 PM, "VA Gun Rights" <vagunrights@gmail.com> wrote:



    Thank you Colonel!


    Ed Levine

    Excellent Ed!

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    A Thanks.

    while I know it shouldn't be necessary, I took it upon myself to send them a quick thanks as well. Like previously said, its good that they care about the law and the facts and aren't to prideful to correct the situation and move on.
    "Yes, I am carrying a loaded firearm. Why aren't you? "

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Maybe I phrased my comment wrong.

    I have no objection to Ed - or anybody else - taking action to correct a locality when they do stuff like this. My concern was that because Ed jumped on it right away the OP might get the idea that there will be someone (like Ed) who will address these things, thus making it not necessary for the OP to do anything else than put up the information about what needs correcting.

    All that is an off-shoot of the "Call/write VCDL - they'll take care of it" syndrome. Sure, VCDL swings a nog stick and is generally known for knowing the law. But there are only so many folks who everyone else thinks are VCDL - mostly the Prez and Board. It has always been my understanding that VCDL encourages folks to take the initiative in addressing problems and waiting in the wings with support/assistance if the individual effort is not successful.

    Ed is to be congratulated for doing what he does in contacting the localities and setting them straight. He earned my undying admiration over that a long time ago.

    What we need are more Eds. My comment was intended to suggest he could give some of the rest of us a chance, and step in if there really was a void. I apologize if that thinking stepped on any toes.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Maybe I phrased my comment wrong.

    I have no objection to Ed - or anybody else - taking action to correct a locality when they do stuff like this. My concern was that because Ed jumped on it right away the OP might get the idea that there will be someone (like Ed) who will address these things, thus making it not necessary for the OP to do anything else than put up the information about what needs correcting.

    All that is an off-shoot of the "Call/write VCDL - they'll take care of it" syndrome. Sure, VCDL swings a nog stick and is generally known for knowing the law. But there are only so many folks who everyone else thinks are VCDL - mostly the Prez and Board. It has always been my understanding that VCDL encourages folks to take the initiative in addressing problems and waiting in the wings with support/assistance if the individual effort is not successful.

    Ed is to be congratulated for doing what he does in contacting the localities and setting them straight. He earned my undying admiration over that a long time ago.

    What we need are more Eds. My comment was intended to suggest he could give some of the rest of us a chance, and step in if there really was a void. I apologize if that thinking stepped on any toes.

    stay safe.
    Well Skid...as you know, we have two VCDL people here...(Ed, who is an EM and Grapeshot who is a member of the Board of Directors). Ed is famous for sending cards and Grapeshot's direct involvement is legendary...So even when VCDL isn't officially involved, they are often in the fray anyway.

    That said, it doesn't hurt to have everyone in the fight because as we all know, VCDL picks it's fights in strange ways at times.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    We also have the VCDL prez, several EMs that are not quite as frequent in posting as the two you mention, and a host of members.

    That said, it doesn't hurt to have everyone in the fight
    That's all I'm saying. Somehow the new (to joining the fray) guys need to get experience. Wish there was a simple, easy answer to how.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Hi everyone, Ed's email worked. The signs were down this morning when I drove by. Have a great day!!!!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Interesting question. There is no bigger fan of 15.2-915 than I am. A sheriff is not a locality, but a constitutional officer. Can a sheriff be considered an agent of a locality? Or perhaps it is covered by the third paragraph of Section A:

    "The provisions of this section applicable to a locality shall also apply to any authority or to a local governmental entity, including a department or agency, but not including any local or regional jail or juvenile detention facility."

    Would the sheriff's office be considered a Department?

    TFred
    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    While the office of the Sheriff is a constitutional office, it is not a state office/agency/dept. It is set out under Article VII, section 4, titled County and city officers. Section 5 sets out county/city governing bodies.

    Section 4. County and city officers.

    There shall be elected by the qualified voters of each county and city a treasurer, a sheriff, an attorney for the Commonwealth, a clerk, who shall be clerk of the court in the office of which deeds are recorded, and a commissioner of revenue. The duties and compensation of such officers shall be prescribed by general law or special act. ...
    Then at some risk of the opposition reading these posts... which part of 15.2-915 covers a Sheriff's office?

    TFred

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