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Thread: City of Washington OC ban

  1. #1
    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    City of Washington OC ban

    http://www.emissourian.com/news/wash...69b4339ec.html
    The city of Washington is attempting to introduce a ban on OC. The joirnalism in the article is just peachy. *sarcasm*
    We need to pull together and fight this head on!

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    Trying to get it in before the state prevents it, which the NRA screwed us out of one aspect of it in a huge way this year.

    Interesting enough, they mention "he knows his rights" lol, so they are clearly defining they seek to infringe upon those rights in a public paper!

    They should all be impeached for violating their oaths of office!

    No help here this round, I am in Texas as I type, heading to Kansas and Oklahoma next week with a possible additional stint in Dallas again.

    Might get interesting now that this is going rural.

    I guess this guy who knows his rights is a bad man, a very bad man, one that will not assimilate into the status quo, what a horrid thought!
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    I asked a certain *****unnamed person****** to please keep the press out of OC for 1 month while we worked in Jefferson City.

    One person, for one month to please behave. My friends one person OC'd in Washington, MO. Legal yes, and did exactly what Maplewood did to us last year.

    I was told from y friends in Jefferson City that if "we" OCers would keep the press at bay till the end of the legislative session May 18th things would go our way.

    NOW JUST LIKE LAST YEAR ONE PERSON, ONE INCIDENT - We are toast! One person would not behave for one month! Thank you so much for ruining a year of work and lobby effort!

    And FYI sir, it "WAS" your State Senator, whos name you don't even know that was going to make OC rights happen here in Missouri!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Don't ask, and it was NOT LMTD above! LMTD is one of the greatest 2A/OC advocates Missouri has ever had!

    And no, not going to do it again next year.

    I just sent a PM to the young man who I will not ID and informed him of what he just did in regard to OC rights in Missouri!
    The legislators are emailing me like 'ya all would not believe, "Just like last year with Maplewood, exactly what we did not need, you are done in Jefferson City"!
    Last edited by mspgunner; 04-25-2012 at 08:05 PM. Reason: MORE
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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    Unhappy

    Sounds as if this one person may not really want to see OC happening and is working hard to get it banned. He must not be on the band wagon to do things in a respectful manner, and may be trying to damage the cause. Just a thought.
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    It's really disappointing if this incident cost us the OC bill.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheus97 View Post
    It's really disappointing if this incident cost us the OC bill.
    As the folks in Jefferson City told me last year, Maplewood killed OC and some are telling me the same thing now.

    This sort of publicity is NOT GOOD!

    We managed to keep OC very much out of the news in regard to "problems" till now this year.

    Maybe it will motivate legislators to move for 2A rights, but more than likely... NO!

    The ones talking to me today are not impressed................
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    I asked a certain *****unnamed person****** to please keep the press out of OC for 1 month while we worked in Jefferson City.

    One person, for one month to please behave. My friends one person OC'd in Washington, MO. Legal yes, and did exactly what Maplewood did to us last year.

    I was told from y friends in Jefferson City that if "we" OCers would keep the press at bay till the end of the legislative session May 18th things would go our way.

    NOW JUST LIKE LAST YEAR ONE PERSON, ONE INCIDENT - We are toast! One person would not behave for one month! Thank you so much for ruining a year of work and lobby effort!

    And FYI sir, it "WAS" your State Senator, whos name you don't even know that was going to make OC rights happen here in Missouri!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Don't ask, and it was NOT LMTD above! LMTD is one of the greatest 2A/OC advocates Missouri has ever had!

    And no, not going to do it again next year.

    I just sent a PM to the young man who I will not ID and informed him of what he just did in regard to OC rights in Missouri!
    The legislators are emailing me like 'ya all would not believe, "Just like last year with Maplewood, exactly what we did not need, you are done in Jefferson City"!
    The person gone unnamed here is me. I appreciate the discretion Marc. In regards to behaving and keeping things out of the press I am not the one to be blamed for any blow this article may have caused to 2A legislation. I did nothing different than anyone else. I OC'd! I was not out to garner attention although that seems to be what the police chief thinks. I was simply doing what I do every day and what millions of other people do every day. Do not demonize me for OCing! I am not a part time OCer. I OC all day every day when possible. I have OC'd hundreds of times in Washington. I have shopped at there stores and patronized there businesses for years! All while OC. The people to blame are the ignorant masses and the undereducated state county and local police. I also did not leak this story to the press. This was leaked by the chief of police, a councilman, or someone sitting in on the proceedings
    If I am wrong in OCing than everyone else is.

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    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
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    So why is the reason open carry is dead is Jefferson City due to one lone carrier and not because of the lack of motion of the bill in comittee?

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    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Trying to get it in before the state prevents it, which the NRA screwed us out of one aspect of it in a huge way this year.

    Interesting enough, they mention "he knows his rights" lol, so they are clearly defining they seek to infringe upon those rights in a public paper!
    They should all be impeached for violating their oaths of office!
    That is the same thing that I thought!

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    Usmcbess, when was it that you took your trip to Washington that had such poor results? I seem to recall that it was in early April.

    From what I can tell, there are several potential tracks to getting OC (at least partially) fixed in MO.

    1. SB680 - Does not look good. The committee has had it since 2/2/2012 and not had a single hearing. It's dead and has been dead for almost 3 months.

    2. HB1638 - Also does not look good. It's committee has had it since 2/8/2012 and done nothing with it. It's dead, and has been dead for about 3 months.

    3. HB1369, which was merged into HB1319, and that had it's OC provision stripped out on 3/7/2012. The OC part has been dead for 2 months.

    4. An unnamed, magic, invisible bill that will sail through both houses before Midnight May 30th after 3 others have failed to do so.

    I'm not going to bet my pony on any of these. But, I don't see how any actions in the month of April, and that are just getting publicity now, are preventing anything from moving forward, looks like there's other forces at work for much longer.

    And, I do not think someone going about their business in Washington and the stupid young man's actions in Maplewood are comparable.

    Could someone explain to me how this is working, it makes no sense to my little mind.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Maplewood killed OC last year, I was infromed (by the powers to be in J.C.) this very well could be the year for OC in Missouri, the emphysis was placed on no bad press! The above person who was involved with the Washington incident posted he was going to OC there. Yes it is "legal" but Washington is known for not being OC friendly (Personal experience) and I informed him and asked him not to OC in washington for just one month! One month till the end of the legislative session!! I knew what the folks in Jefferson City were telling me and I told him.
    Cop stop filming, OC not good press..... these do not work in our favor. It's a big election year, the folks running for office will dodge any bad press like they did last year.

    I'm working on a couple of things to put a positive spin on this. If 'ya all want to email leadership and "your" elected representatives in Jeff City, use this (email them the story) to show them how our legal 2A rights are being eliminated and art. 1 sec. 23 is the constitution in Missouri. The right to keep and bear arms is being infringed by none less than "local" government. What other constitutional right can be prohibited by "local" government?

    With the very pro-2A majority, both parties have pro-2A legislators, if we can't get OC rights this year, it probably will not be done for years to come.

    Bad press, even if it is "legal" is not good for OC rights. I and group of others have worked our tails off, many of you wrote and emailed, some even went to Jeff City, either with our group on on your own. I applaud your commitment. We worked the system, made friends with legislators, testified in hearings and dotted the I's and crossed the "t"s then got royally rolled over by the NRA and now this bad press.

    It's politics folks, like it or not they play the game and duck for cover when bat guano hits the fan. The fan is turning. Becaus eof my political contacts over many years, volunteer work and contributions I have th ears of many legislators in Jeff City and I've exhausted everything thsi year for OC rights. There are other OCers here on the forum that have done research, help draft documents and committed a lot of time and resources to this effort.

    OC is a very touchy subject and there are/were plans for dealing with OC rights (none of which I can discuss on the public forum) waiting for the end of the session next month. We wil have to see on that one. Mean while this bad press, whether you agree or not may have shot us in the back. Not my thought, the reality of Missouri politics and our legislature.

    Mark Twain (I may be paraphrasing) "NO one in Missouri is safe as long as the legislature is in session in Jefferson City."

    Sorry Mr. Bess, I asked you not to OC in Washington Missouri for one month, one very small period of time. There was a reason for it, more than I can fully explain here but I gave you a hint yesterday in the PM I sent you. You now know who your State Senator is and why I asked you not to OC in Washington, MO.

    END

    It'
    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    Usmcbess, when was it that you took your trip to Washington that had such poor results? I seem to recall that it was in early April.

    From what I can tell, there are several potential tracks to getting OC (at least partially) fixed in MO.

    1. SB680 - Does not look good. The committee has had it since 2/2/2012 and not had a single hearing. It's dead and has been dead for almost 3 months.

    2. HB1638 - Also does not look good. It's committee has had it since 2/8/2012 and done nothing with it. It's dead, and has been dead for about 3 months.

    3. HB1369, which was merged into HB1319, and that had it's OC provision stripped out on 3/7/2012. The OC part has been dead for 2 months.

    4. An unnamed, magic, invisible bill that will sail through both houses before Midnight May 30th after 3 others have failed to do so.

    I'm not going to bet my pony on any of these. But, I don't see how any actions in the month of April, and that are just getting publicity now, are preventing anything from moving forward, looks like there's other forces at work for much longer.

    And, I do not think someone going about their business in Washington and the stupid young man's actions in Maplewood are comparable.

    Could someone explain to me how this is working, it makes no sense to my little mind.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Why do we know after the fact?

    Maybe I missed it, but if it was known that the Lawmakers were going to make a concerted effort to get OC...and there was a concern about bad press, why wasn't everyone on this board notified?

    I would have quit for a month for sure, but there have been OC meet ups all over the State....

    Just sayin...
    Last edited by zekester; 04-26-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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    Sour grapes I say. Just looking for someone to blame for the NRA and spineless legislators p!ssing on the fire again and putting it out.

    Supposedly 1 incident in Maplewood killed OC last year=spineless legislators

    Supposed 1 incident in Washington killed OC this year=spineless legislators

    The legislature should be working to protect the citizens rights instead of cow towing to the whining liberals. That is the reason that I do not hold them in very high esteem.
    Last edited by 9026543; 04-26-2012 at 08:28 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran Verd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zekester View Post
    Maybe I missed it, but if it was known that the Lawmakers were going to make a concerted effort to get OC...and there was a concern about bad press, why wasn't everyone on this board notified?

    I would have quit for a month for sure, but there have been OC meet ups all over the State....

    Just sayin...
    EXACTLY!

    I really ******* hate this ******** from mspgunner. He sits there, making deals behind everyone's backs (or so he claims), and doesn't tell ANYONE about them until it is too late and when he does say anything at all, it is all ******** anyways because he refuses to tell the story to you straight.

    This, this **** right here, makes me not want to be part of this subforum.
    One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them. Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796.
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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Yes, I and a group of people busting our butts for 2A work with legislators, make deals and don't tell you, this forum or the anti-2A people who watch every post. You have a problem with that?

    The story will come out after the legislative session is over. If you don't know when that is, you know too little! Don't worry, if "we" don't get some results on OC this session you won't see me here on this forum again. Actually even if we do you probably won't either, If I said why my access would be immediately terminated...


    Quote Originally Posted by Verd View Post
    EXACTLY!

    I really ******* hate this ******** from mspgunner. He sits there, making deals behind everyone's backs (or so he claims), and doesn't tell ANYONE about them until it is too late and when he does say anything at all, it is all ******** anyways because he refuses to tell the story to you straight.

    This, this **** right here, makes me not want to be part of this subforum.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    If you knew that any bad press would kill it in the next 30 or so days, I can't see where you might be restricted on letting us know. That is all I am saying...

    " Things are in works...please hold off on meetings and confrotations with the police for the next 30days or so"...

    Works for me..
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Well, quite a bit to consider.

    I am not aware of anyone who is intentionally seeking a confrontation with LE while OCing. I obviously do not know everyone who OCs, but I'll hazard a guess that no one who OCs is trolling for a confrontation.

    The alleged support for the 2A in JC is just that, alleged. If the pols are for the 2A and Art I, Sec 23 as they are wont to state during election cycles, then this 'deal' would have been done 'long' ago. Obviously it has not, so their 'support' as they term it is suspect. With overwhelming majorities in both houses what are they afraid of? Who are they afraid of? Anti-gunners? Basically there aren't any. Filibuster? Those who would try could not get a darn thing if the 2A supporters told them so.

    Saying you support is different than actually supporting. I'll be voting based on the current track record of my rep and senator and their lack of leadership on this vitally important issue. I'll be wearing out some shoe leather too. They had their chance as far as I'm concerned....time for another change.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Getting OC friendly bills passed has a political process. I know many think the MO consitution grants it, as does the 2A. However, the courts and legislative processes have not bit and agreed.

    Currently, several folks have been working with our state legislators to help pass OC friendly bills. Please remember this is still a political process. When you are dealing with politicians, you have to play their game; like it or not. Of course, one could say this is bogus and shouldn't be that way. But the truth/fact is, it is still politics....politics in politics has been around since before the Roman Empire.

    So, with all this said, things happen in the background, not seen by many people, when it comes to politics; to the point where very few 'know' what is going on and telling more may make the entire process fall through. For those who are blaming mspgunner about the potential backroom dealing is shortsighted. If he were to post on this forum or PM many individuals on this forum what is happening behind the scenes; his attempt to deal would be unsuccessfull, in all probability.

    Just a reminder, just because you don't know what is happening, doesn't mean nothing is happening.

    I would suggest, with what has happened, everyone make an attempt to contact their legislators this weekend/early next week, and encourage them to push through some legislation supporting a consistant message supporting OC. Or the other option is to complain here on the interweb hoping something happens.
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  19. #19
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Getting OC friendly bills passed has a political process. I know many think the MO consitution grants it, as does the 2A. However, the courts and legislative processes have not bit and agreed.

    Currently, several folks have been working with our state legislators to help pass OC friendly bills. Please remember this is still a political process. When you are dealing with politicians, you have to play their game; like it or not. Of course, one could say this is bogus and shouldn't be that way. But the truth/fact is, it is still politics....politics in politics has been around since before the Roman Empire.

    So, with all this said, things happen in the background, not seen by many people, when it comes to politics; to the point where very few 'know' what is going on and telling more may make the entire process fall through. For those who are blaming mspgunner about the potential backroom dealing is shortsighted. If he were to post on this forum or PM many individuals on this forum what is happening behind the scenes; his attempt to deal would be unsuccessfull, in all probability.

    Just a reminder, just because you don't know what is happening, doesn't mean nothing is happening.

    I would suggest, with what has happened, everyone make an attempt to contact their legislators this weekend/early next week, and encourage them to push through some legislation supporting a consistant message supporting OC. Or the other option is to complain here on the interweb hoping something happens.

    THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST POSTS HERE IN A LONG TIME. YES IT IS POLITICS..... Yes anyone and everyone can make a difference. Anyone and everyone should contact their legislators and the leadership. Actually this has ben posted over and over again. There is less than a month in the session. Things can happen with people power, problem is people don't exercise thier power!

    Exercise it now. After the middle of next month it's over till next year.... As I and others have pointed out, nothing posted here changes anything in Jeff City!

    Whine, bitch, call me and others names... OK, you feel better but it accomplishes "NOTHING". You are just as free as I and my partners to call your legislators, the committee chairs, the Governor if you like. I actually had the governor call me one morning.... I didn't even vote for him but asked him to call and he did, we chatted. It's actually a small state, you can talk to these people and should! They represent you, or so they should. Oh by the way, VOTE!

    I have no more rights than you, you have no more rights than I, make good use of your time and get involved. That makes a difference, their names and numbers are on the web!

    One last thing, you don't have to tell me what your doing for 2A/OC and I don't need to tell you. Once in a while I send a PM to help some body stay out of trouble or cause trouble for OC, what they do with that is up to them and it does refelct on all OCers from time to time.

    Free choice, exercise your rights, please don't piss off the police, it doesn't help in the long run.....................
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    With overwhelming majorities in both houses what are they afraid of? Who are they afraid of? Anti-gunners? Basically there aren't any. Filibuster? Those who would try could not get a darn thing if the 2A supporters told them so.
    A certain organization has interfered with OC legislation in Missouri.

  21. #21
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zekester View Post
    If you knew that any bad press would kill it in the next 30 or so days, I can't see where you might be restricted on letting us know. That is all I am saying...

    " Things are in works...please hold off on meetings and confrotations with the police for the next 30days or so"...

    Works for me..
    Sorry, bad choice of words. I know we are not out to confront police, my point was that we could just be under the radar while things played out. Wasn't trying to start anything.....With Marc in Wildwood doing his thing, The people in KC area doing theirs, it would seem a prudent thing to do to make people aware of the concerns with the powers to be about bad press...any small thing could get blown out of proportion, such as with "bess"....he was just doing his thing and the City freaked out...

    Ok...done with this...Time to write more letters and make more phone calls..
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zekester View Post
    Sorry, bad choice of words. I know we are not out to confront police, my point was that we could just be under the radar while things played out. Wasn't trying to start anything.....With Marc in Wildwood doing his thing, The people in KC area doing theirs, it would seem a prudent thing to do to make people aware of the concerns with the powers to be about bad press...any small thing could get blown out of proportion, such as with "bess"....he was just doing his thing and the City freaked out...

    Ok...done with this...Time to write more letters and make more phone calls..
    Exactly, agree!
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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  23. #23
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheus97 View Post
    A certain organization has interfered with OC legislation in Missouri.
    You and I were in the capitol speaking in favor of OC rights before a House committee, it's OK to say you and I care enough, I am pleased to be associated with you my friend!

    The "certain Organiztion", that would be none other than the National Rifle Association. Our dear supporters of 2A rights stabbed us in the back!
    The details ,,,,,.... sorry must wait till the session is over. Subscribe to the free news letter if you want the whole story.

    The end of the story isn't written yet, some of us are on the legislature like stink! We call'em like we see 'em.

    I spoke with my senator this morning via email, I encourage all of us to do the same. Under a month to go, not much time!

    The whole story cannot be told till the fat lady sings - The legislative session is not over!
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
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  24. #24
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Actually 'a certain organization' is not what drives this issue, it is us. In fact, certain individuals drive this issue far more than the most of us, combined. But the impetus is on all of us to get this done, or at least impress upon our elected officials that their 'job' depends on getting it done. Stop talking the talk and not walking the walk.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Actually 'a certain organization' is not what drives this issue, it is us. In fact, certain individuals drive this issue far more than the most of us, combined. But the impetus is on all of us to get this done, or at least impress upon our elected officials that their 'job' depends on getting it done. Stop talking the talk and not walking the walk.
    I have to agree. We, the citizens of Missouri, are the ones that need to make this happen.

    The NRA did not help us. The NRA did not step aside and watch while we worked for OC rights in Missouri. The NRA did work actively against us to defeat OC legislation. As MSP said, more details will be revealed after this legislative session.

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