City of Washington OC ban

[Verd]

Yes, I and a group of people busting our butts for 2A work with legislators, make deals and don't tell you, this forum or the anti-2A people who watch every post. You have a problem with that?

The story will come out after the legislative session is over. If you don't know when that is, you know too little! Don't worry, if "we" don't get some results on OC this session you won't see me here on this forum again. Actually even if we do you probably won't either, If I said why my access would be immediately terminated...

I have a problem with people saying, after the fact, "I was told in backroom dealings that if you had just not done such and such, we would get so and so". It is ******* ********. If is it so damn secret and political, don't say a ******* word. OR, better yet, say something the moment you were told about it, "If we can keep open carrying out of the news for the next month or so, it could significantly raise the chance of getting an open carry bill to move foreward. I can't tell you anything more than it is from a rumor making its rounds with the politicians. And even if we do keep it out of the news and it doesn't help a bill to gain tracktion, we won't have hurt anything. So please, if you can, try to refrain from open carrying in highly political, suspect areas, or areas where police are known or believed to give open carriers a harder time."

But you didn't do that. By your own words, you PMed someone with very little information about not open carrying in a certain city. Well, what the **** about all the people who either live in said city or travel through said city or visit said city who do not announce it? Why did you not warn all of them? That is what is ********. Man up and say what needs to be said, or sit your ass down, cross your legs, and don't say a word no matter what.

[LMTD]

I have a problem with people saying, after the fact,

But you didn't do that. By your own words, you PMed someone with very little information about not open carrying in a certain city. Well, what the **** about all the people who either live in said city or travel through said city or visit said city who do not announce it? Why did you not warn all of them? That is what is ********. Man up and say what needs to be said, or sit your ass down, cross your legs, and don't say a word no matter what.

pot/kettle eh?

perhaps you should cross your legs, sit down and shut up since you have no idea what gunner either said to or pm'ed Mr. Bess.

UMCBess has a history of seeking confrontations with the police etc, he was asked to avoid such activities without regard for legality of his actions during session, he is a grown man and ignored the request, got into an encounter with police where weapons were drawn and the city is reacting and the liberal newspaper is capitalizing upon it.

Beyond that, you basically have no idea of what you are talking about.

[zekester]

I was going to let this go...but

On this site...Missouri has over 1200 Threads and over 18,000 post.....now realizing that LMTD posted half of these, enough to make every Precious Moment figurine ever manufactured in the state cry! (LMAO).....

I realize that there are back door deals (politics) done everyday, I do it myself in St Charles, and yes I do not share the details, but If I was told that any negative press would hurt the cause I would do my best to share it with everyone without comprimising the goal at hand...

Just saying

[LMTD]

I was going to let this go...but

On this site...Missouri has over 1200 Threads and over 18,000 post.....now realizing that LMTD posted half of these, enough to make every Precious Moment figurine ever manufactured in the state cry! (LMAO).....

LOL, yeah it happens. Can't help it, someone has to do it, but I am just about done doing it anyway.

The miseryian libtard paper has a bone to grind with the senator for his pro-firearms position, there is no real fault to be found with them for capitalizing upon it to push their agenda. More than a few were around last year when the Maplewood incident happened and killed the 2a legislative session.

The miseryian is trying to do the same thing again, and feedback indicates a strong desire for distance from this and who can blame them, they have to try and get re-elected! Considering the rally day is estimated .00000000006% of the population showed up, we ain't a real strong voting base this year now are we folks?

Next you have the individual in question, we can take a look at that, however with one caveat, IMHO, his legal activities do NOT justify lw changes just to make those activities illegal, that is simply a political result, something far too man seem to misunderstand.

Bring OC to the Seattle hempfest! Not all marijuana supporters are pro gun but some are! Spread the word on OC by atteding!

Ok, now wait a second, I know I said LEGAL, but there you go, your in office seeking re-election, is this one you want as a vocal supporter? Guns and booze is a hot enough topic, you start scaring the old folks with guns and dope do you think you are going to be getting a huge republican donation into your campaign?

I am not an exhibtionist, show off, or anything like that but I make it a point to stop at places that I see police at if I need to stop or at places that have "police substation" on there door.

I believe the paper already clearly stated this now didn't they? I mean the vast majority (which are a huge minority) of OC'ers carry for protection and choose OC because of comfort and deterant, clearly and repeatedly the person being discussed has defined he has other motives, but note, not illegal motives.

I record police interaction with the public whenever I can. Whether OC related or not. I have recieved a good amount of criticism from a few people in the Missouri forum.

I have criticized the activity, it has inherant dangers in the methods being empoyed for all parties involved. There is a huge difference in recording an event and gonzo journalism and bringing a third party in close proximity to a police encounter is unsafe and unwise. It is methods not the actual recording most find a real bad idea, including calling them yourself just to see what happenes.


Perhaps opinions will always vary, but as the legislature is manned right now, I do not believe you are going to find that any of them want to be associaed or even loosly associated with a person who stands on the busiest corner they can find with their bible in the air, pistol on their hip, screaming the gospel at passing traffic while their buddy video tapes it.

I personally do not care if that is how he seeks to live his life, he is a free man not in violation of any law and should be left alone by the government. That does not mean there is not a public push and political pressure to "make him stop" and it does not mean that the city is scared of a lawsuit after the city atty got done with them. Banning it cures their ills, and they know it is an attention getting stunt, without the gun there is little to no attention so he basicly goes away. The miseryian just hops on board for the jabs at the senator.

I do wish he had practiced more discrestion, but he didn't, he won't and it is already a done deal. There is a very very minor chance that the fat lady has not sung, but I would not bet on it.

To the ones whom mus run their keyboards into the ground in retort, forget it, the whole thing is POLITICAL POISON and there is no backing away from it, in fact, most re running from it like madmen.

[zekester]

I had a conversation with the Governor and he said.......oh damn.....I can't tell you!

I had a conversation with my Senator and he said.......oh damn.....I can't tell you!

I had a conversation with my Congressman and he said.......oh damn.....I can't tell you!

I had a conversation with my wife and she said .......oh damn.....I can't tell you!

But what I can tell you is that SB680 has a chance. Be careful in you outings and be sure not try to attract attention. There is a good opportunity for this to happen but we need ALL YOuR HELP!!!

I have to say, that was he hardest thing I have ever done in my life....whew...glad that is over!!!!

Sorry....BS in my book

[LMTD]

I had a conversation with my Senator and he said.......oh damn.....I can't tell you!

I had a conversation with my Congressman and he said.......oh damn.....I can't tell you!

I had a conversation with my wife and she said .......oh damn.....I can't tell you!

But what I can tell you is that SB680 has a chance. Be careful in you outings and be sure not try to attract attention. There is a good opportunity for this to happen but we need ALL YOuR HELP!!!

I have to say, that was he hardest thing I have ever done in my life....whew...glad that is over!!!!

Sorry....BS in my book

Deleted the governer, never got a shot for that one, but his answer would likely have been "I will have to veto that one" if for nothing more than to discourage.

Senate and House happened, congress is on the federal level only. Yep, talked to many of them, mass mailed them (not all, just the pro 2a dems and republicans), encouraged others to do so, and nope it is not "can't tell you" but it is absolutely "not going to post on a public forum" that sir has nothing BUT wisdom, though it seems opinions do vary. Had to talk to the fiance' a lot (not married just yet) and explain the coin, explain the vacation days used to hang out with other gun folks instead of her, explain the hours of research on the computer instead of cuddled on the sofa with her, I have no issues telling you that, it is almost a given for many here on this forum.

SB 680 HAD a chance, what happened to it is obvious to those who bother enough to look at it. It is not totally dead just yet, but I ain't gonna bet you a beer on it.

Everyone was asked to write and call their reps, no one was told they are not welcome to do so, only the opposite exist.

I am not saying it was the hardest thing I have ever done, I will say without any doubt it is a huge pain in the butt to do it. I know you are a manager of a busy business so you can appreciate not being able to arrange to make a hearing with less than 2 business days notice etc. Paid lobbyist who are indeed knocking on the doors daily and are in place for each hearing certainly can be more effective. A grass roots effort has significantly more hurdles to jump to FIND the right audience, we jumped them and made a few meetings.

There is not a person on this board that can not pick up the phone, call their own rep, ask them what is going on and if they do not know who can they call to find out then try and call that person who may or may not take your call, call your own rep back and ask who else can you talk to, call them, if you get hold of them, try and tie them down to a 15 minute appointment at which time if you are real lucky they might give you FIVE minutes, gather those who are doing the same thing together, see who can make the trip to Jeff city for the five minute appointment only to find the rep did not take you seriously enough and bumped you, you beg he assistant for 2 minutes, get it, toss out your speel and cross your fingers. Anyone may also take the track gunner took, take a week of vacation, beg for the appointments, run around the capitol building all day, each day, stalk the reps in the hallway, drop literature to the assistants all day begging them to find you 30 seconds, stalk the bars after 7 to see if you spot anyone worthy of talking to etc.

All of that is easier if you have lined a few of the pockets prior to session, during session and rsvp for fundraising dinners for the up and comers so to speak.

I am fairly sure no one restricted any of the full grown men and ladies on these boards from doing those very things. I know a group of us doing those things encouraged those not willing to do those things from saying things that would close some of those doors we were trying to get through.

Don't like not knowing? start dialing and asking questions yourself, it ain't hard at all.

As far as it being BS, how about you make that call after you have done it yourself, prior to that your just blowing it out your butt talking about something you know nothing of at all.

[usmcbess]

pot/kettle eh?

perhaps you should cross your legs, sit down and shut up since you have no idea what gunner either said to or pm'ed Mr. Bess.

UMCBess has a history of seeking confrontations with the police etc, he was asked to avoid such activities without regard for legality of his actions during session, he is a grown man and ignored the request, got into an encounter with police where weapons were drawn and the city is reacting and the liberal newspaper is capitalizing upon it.

Beyond that, you basically have no idea of what you are talking about.

You also know not of what you speak LMTD when it comes to the correspondence between me and Marc. The only thing I can remember Marc telling me privatly or publicly was to "behave". To which I have reponded that if "behave" he means dont OC or OC only in selected situations that it is out of the question.
I dont know if you were illiding to the post I made probably over a year ago ,where I thought it would be a good idea to follow the lead of a california OC'er in testing the waters, then you mistaken in my intentions. I was new to OC And was just throwing an idea out there to see what evryone else thought. Marc and some others said it was a bad idea so I took there advice. If you are refrering to something else please let me know what your are referencing and I will tell you my intentions rather than leaving it to your imagination. The only person who knows my intentions are me!

[LMTD]

You also know not of what you speak LMTD when it comes to the correspondence between me and Marc. The only thing I can remember Marc telling me privatly or publicly was to "behave". To which I have reponded that if "behave" he means dont OC or OC only in selected situations that it is out of the question.!

Mr bess, your intentions are clear and precise for any an everyone to see. You have consistently demonstrated them over and over on several different forums.

There is no real debate to be had, you conduct yourself in a legal manner. It is not illegal to be an attention seeker.

None of that changes the simple fact that you conduct yourself in a manner that less than 1% of the population consider reasonable.

You have made yourself political poison of your own choice which is also not illegal.

[usmcbess]

Mr bess, your intentions are clear and precise for any an everyone to see. You have consistently demonstrated them over and over on several different forums.

There is no real debate to be had, you conduct yourself in a legal manner. It is not illegal to be an attention seeker.

None of that changes the simple fact that you conduct yourself in a manner that less than 1% of the population consider reasonable.

You have made yourself political poison of your own choice which is also not illegal.

It's not illegal to attempt to be a psychic either LMTD which is good for your side of the argument.
I also dont operate on any other forums so I dont really know what your talking about there.


For anyone who would like to get to know me please dont rely on LMTD' OPINION of who I am, how I conduct myself, etc. He and others are just doing what is natural when they perceive a threat. That being find the most reasonable scapegoat.
I am Vincent Bess. I am a born again, fundamental, baptist. I am an American patriot. I am a full time OC'er. And I am not not afraid to hold oath bound government officials accountable.

[zekester]

LMTD...

Don't think for one second that I do not do what is possible for me to do...

I call....I write and I meet when possible...

Some of us to do not have the freedom, nor finances that apparently some do....

I do what I do...I do what I can....You know that I am very passionate about OC...limited... I am..

[Vegassteve]

I grew up in Krakow. Went to school in Washington. Live in Las Vegas now. I still visit, in fact in March I OC in Washington no issues. I also grew up with and am friends with Tim Brinkers brother. Here is Tims city email. tbrinker@ci.washington.mo.us I just sent him a note urging not to pass this. I also posted on his facebook election page for county commissioner. Sorry i dont have that info handy. just search for it on FB.

[Vegassteve]

I have just been in contact with Tim Brinker. He says it is a dead issue open carry will be continued in Washington!!!!!! This has been taken off the table he says.

[LMTD]

It's not illegal to attempt to be a psychic either LMTD which is good for your side of the argument.
I also dont operate on any other forums so I dont really know what your talking about there.


For anyone who would like to get to know me please dont rely on LMTD' OPINION of who I am, how I conduct myself, etc. He and others are just doing what is natural when they perceive a threat. That being find the most reasonable scapegoat.
I am Vincent Bess. I am a born again, fundamental, baptist. I am an American patriot. I am a full time OC'er. And I am not not afraid to hold oath bound government officials accountable.

Vince, Are you claiming, as a born again Fundamental Baptist that you have not participated in other forums? I believe you and I have both been on this sight long enough to know a bit of history.

My opinion of you is what it is sir, and it is based upon your own history, from your copwatch and copblock activities to your more interesting positions on many issues over the years.

I know you were asked to refrain from your more high profile activities and I know you were asked by more than one person, it was most certainly a topic of discussion among those working within the political arena. I was not one of the persons who contacted you but more than one indicated they had PM'ed or called you, I do not doubt their word sir.

You didn't kill oc for Missouri, you created a political firestorm in the very yard of the one senator who vowed to help us and rendered him some what sterile, the bill was 94% dead already and those with anything to do beyond run their mouths on this forum already KNOW why. I think you may well have given it another 5% death, but it is not your fault.

You like to showboat, your an attentio grabber, you seek fame over many other things and sir it just is what it is and your actions clearly speak louder than words, google yourself and see.

[ChiangShih]

Well, quite a bit to consider.

I am not aware of anyone who is intentionally seeking a confrontation with LE while OCing.

Really? Are you sure about that? I think there are plenty of doofs on this forum nationally who actively do it for attention and at times even seek the attention of police officers. I've seen some videos and even heard thing from the MO side of the board that has led me to believe not everyone is as non-confrontational as we would like to believe. USMCBess is one of these people who seek attention that makes the rest of us look bad.

Wasn't trying to start anything.....With Marc in Wildwood doing his thing, The people in KC area doing theirs, it would seem a prudent thing to do to make people aware of the concerns with the powers to be about bad press

Yes us in KC are doing our "thing," and we've done so with major media coverage and without getting OC banned in a single municipality. We try very hard to OC politically minded and present ourselves with tact. We also talk often about how to defuse situations with cops by speaking of subtle activism, handing out cards, and being professional and polite. Call it luck of the draw, but I think its because we have good press on the mind. I remind people at almost every meet, OC can still be banned, be professional, be careful, everyone is a representative of the larger OC movement. This method has worked well.

That is what is ********. Man up and say what needs to be said, or sit your ass down, cross your legs, and don't say a word no matter what.

Verd, MSPGunner is doing exactly what he needs to do and he is playing the game exactly how it should be played. He has done more for the OC movement here in MO than about 98% of us (myself included) combined. A small active number of MOOCers have been planning the proper and most effective route for a long time, and yes guess what, bad press does hurt the process. Moreover, for dissenters it provides a recent and damaging incident for them to cite in their dissent. Why don't you calm down and shut up, or change that big talk into some big walk and go do even HALF of what MSP has done in just the last 2 legislative sessions alone.

The only person who knows my intentions are me!

Trust me bess, your comments in this forum (and others) have betrayed your confidential intentions. As far as I'm concerned, and this isn't a personal attack, the OC movement is better without folks like you and Darrow.

You like to showboat, your an attentio grabber, you seek fame over many other things and sir it just is what it is and your actions clearly speak louder than words, google yourself and see.

Allow me to do everyone a favor and link y'all to his youtube channel.
http://youtu.be/S8rjiz6KdRY

http://youtu.be/15lhdD_RYOA (Here is one of you in Washington doing a COP WATCH) Wtf man, you are a joke.

On an unrelated note (maybe), we should start an OCer diet plan. Seriously.

[LMTD]

Allow me to do everyone a favor and link y'all to his youtube channel.
http://youtu.be/S8rjiz6KdRY

http://youtu.be/15lhdD_RYOA (Here is one of you in Washington doing a COP WATCH) Wtf man, you are a joke.

Well, there is always this one thing that gets to me, I know I can be a *****, I sometimes even take a little pride in being a *****, I actually see the merit in doing so, but in bess's case, beyond the oc/dope issue, I have yet to see him violate the law.

Being offensive is not against the law, his activities are indeed offensive, but are not illegal, and our system is or was set up so as to protect HIS offensive positions as long as they are legal and the day we are unable to defend his offensive positions, our own become worthless as someone surely may find them offensive as well.

While your link may indeed provide a great deal of insight to some. lets not forget, nothing illegal is contained within and however unpopular it may be, so were the words of our fore fathers and so will be our kids if they stand for what it is we proclaim to believe in.

I can say, I wish he had listened and let the sun set on May, but it is what it is and we got screwed by so many more, lets not seek a scapegoat, our last ditch was a statistical anomaly long before any of this entered the picture.

Opinions vary, this is mine.

[ChiangShih]

While your link may indeed provide a great deal of insight to some. lets not forget, nothing illegal is contained within and however unpopular it may be, so were the words of our fore fathers and so will be our kids if they stand for what it is we proclaim to believe in.

You are exactly right. However, when you are the member of a political group, and a part of a movement that can still be restricted, doing unpopular things can still be considered pretty stupid. Seriously, playing "CopBlock" WHILE OCing, then saying he never intended to give the movement a bad name? Get the **** out. Legal or not we can't support doofs like this guy. KC side doesn't put up with fools like this, if we find guys like this in the group we actively black ball them from OC meets and avoid affiliation, maybe that's why we have a better track record.

[ChiangShih]

His FB paints a pretty bad picture of him too.

Aber dein Facebook sagt das er Deutsch sprechen kann. Bess, warst du wirklich in der Marineinfanterie der V.S.A ? Ich glaube dir kein Wort davon, aber das ist meine Meinung. Sowieso, kannst du uns einen gefallen tuen? Kannst du dich nicht zum Narren machen, mein Freundchen? Wie kann man nur so dumm sein und Deutsch sprechen ? Außerdem bin ich noch am lernen. Deutsch ist keine einfache Sprache !

[Tony4310]

EXACTLY!

I really ******* hate this ******** from mspgunner. He sits there, making deals behind everyone's backs (or so he claims), and doesn't tell ANYONE about them until it is too late and when he does say anything at all, it is all ******** anyways because he refuses to tell the story to you straight.

This, this **** right here, makes me not want to be part of this subforum.

Not going to say a word this this asinine comment...........

[Tony4310]

You are exactly right. However, when you are the member of a political group, and a part of a movement that can still be restricted, doing unpopular things can still be considered pretty stupid. Seriously, playing "CopBlock" WHILE OCing, then saying he never intended to give the movement a bad name? Get the **** out. Legal or not we can't support doofs like this guy. KC side doesn't put up with fools like this, if we find guys like this in the group we actively black ball them from OC meets and avoid affiliation, maybe that's why we have a better track record.

Can I join the KC movement from the St.Louis side? I do not wqant to be affiliated with people like bess. Anyone that actively and intentionally goes to places where police are intentionally are seeking confrontation with LOE's and have their own selfish agenda at hand. Some of the people on this side of state are clueless!

[usmcbess]

His FB paints a pretty bad picture of him too.

Aber dein Facebook sagt das er Deutsch sprechen kann. Bess, warst du wirklich in der Marineinfanterie der V.S.A ? Ich glaube dir kein Wort davon, aber das ist meine Meinung. Sowieso, kannst du uns einen gefallen tuen? Kannst du dich nicht zum Narren machen, mein Freundchen? Wie kann man nur so dumm sein und Deutsch sprechen ? Außerdem bin ich noch am lernen. Deutsch ist keine einfache Sprache !

Ich war noch niemals in die Marine Corps ich eingestehen muss, dass. ICH wa in a Marine Corps highschool programm. Habe ich mein Studium mit vielen ehrungen.

[ChiangShih]

Ich war noch niemals in die Marine Corps ich eingestehen muss, dass. ICH wa in a Marine Corps highschool programm. Habe ich mein Studium mit vielen ehrungen.

Achso, so viel konnte ich mir denken.

[ChiangShih]

Can I join the KC movement from the St.Louis side? I do not wqant to be affiliated with people like bess. Anyone that actively and intentionally goes to places where police are intentionally are seeking confrontation with LOE's and have their own selfish agenda at hand. Some of the people on this side of state are clueless!

Naturally! That is a long drive to the meets though, lol.

[LMTD]

weißt du, was ein Schmerz es zu benutzen Google übersetzen, dies zu lesen ist?

[kylemoul]

Ich weiß, es ist so schwer, es dauerte 45 Sekunden.

[WCrawford]

Yes, I and a group of people busting our butts for 2A work with legislators, make deals and don't tell you, this forum or the anti-2A people who watch every post. You have a problem with that?

The story will come out after the legislative session is over. If you don't know when that is, you know too little! Don't worry, if "we" don't get some results on OC this session you won't see me here on this forum again. Actually even if we do you probably won't either, If I said why my access would be immediately terminated...

All this tells me is that Missouri needs to let in the sunshine at the state capitol.